[Closed] Don't hold your breath for a Turner eBike then - Dave lets rip on Pinkbike

thisisnotaspoon - Member

One of the most depressing thing's I've seen on the trails is families on e-bikes with fat kids.

Kid on e-bike keeping up with XC-racer dad I could understand. But buying yourself an e-bike because you're slow and your kid one so he can keep up with your lazy ass (or vice versa) is just sad.

What if the alternative is fat kid doesn't ride? There's this prevailing assumption that there's 2 choices, proper bike or e-bike and it's nonsense. I know 4 people with e-bikes now, 3 of them wouldn't be riding a normal bike and the 4th uses it to ride further and faster than she could before not to be lazy.

Edit - missed your second version of that post. Adding in that 4th person helped your point. 3 people choosing e-bikes who wouldn't choose a proper bike, did support the two choices model.

As an aside, I can fully get with the further aspect of e-bikes, but I'm not sure I would get any personal reward from riding a power assisted bike faster than a proper bike.

No, not at all

(I did do a quick edit because I remembered someone else, but it doesn't change the result)

He's not quite talking about our lawful e-bikes though - 250W and 14.5mph pedelec.

What with him being American I assume he is talking about American e-bike laws

A quick scan sugests 20mph and 750W for the good old USA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Federal_Laws_and_Regulations_Pertaining_to_the_Sale_of_Electric_Bicycles

Sorry it should be AT LEAST 20mph. Mate I was with is a proper fitness freak and one time KOM holder of said climb and reckons they were going about twice as quick as he could.

I've definitely seen several Illegal/ chipped ones locally (peak district). I was going down potato alley a couple of weeks ago and there was a couple of youngish lads coming UP it at about 20 mph!

These may be Bultacos?

Seen some going uphill at about 20mph a couple of times now, including my local trails on Winter Hill recently.

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I know they must have been lifted over a few fences but I didn't see it unfortunately. The riders must have to go out in pairs just to do that.

No they looked like Haibike Nduros.

These may be Bultacos?

Personally, I'm not too worried and in the end, all that will come of it will be a blanket "no eBikes" rule on certain trails, which won't bother me one way or the other. And these bikes will just ignore it in the same way that the MX kids do anyway 🙁

I'll be brutally honest though, and with the exception of very wet trails (which do get badly torn up by MX bikes), it's bloody horses that damage the trail, not MTBs or eBikes. Their tearing action just rips up the surface and leaves it a muddy mess than can only be crossed by other horses, presumably while they moan about the damage caused by bikes.

Tangent rant over!

something like this is where i see a big masrket for ebikes...

get around efficiently without any noise and crap like a Vespa.

I do see e-bikes as a thing on their own and not cycling as I think of it

+1

riding is about pushing yourself. obviously we have gears and suspension, but it is ultimately me getting me and the bike to the top. riding with a motor is cheating, imo.

saying that, there are lots of older germans cruising along to the hut at the end of the valley on a weekend. how many of them would have done that without an ebike? well, quite a few, tbh, from what i've seen there were always lots of people visiting the restaurants before ebikes came along.

people are lazy.

 

Even with a GPS telling me my own current speed, I don't think I could make any accurate assessment of another rider's speed. It would be a guess.

Even forgetting the racing side, I still maintain that there could only be a tiny amount of people who are fit and able enough to ride the descents on a red/black TC trail, but are unable to make the climbs, there isn't enough of them to create enough demand to make a bike

You may well be correct there but we definitely do exist and I'm pretty appreciative that there is a bike that means that I can ride like I did before.

Even with a GPS telling me my own current speed, I don't think I could make any accurate assessment of another rider's speed. It would be a guess.

Well, say you have a GPS telling you you're doing about 25kph while going balls-out up a hill, and someone is pulling away from you a bit faster than walking speed.

Ergo, about 20mph.

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smell_it - Member

Edit - missed your second version of that post. Adding in that 4th person helped your point. 3 people choosing e-bikes who wouldn't choose a proper bike, did support the two choices model

Not really because I was posting those to counter the 2 choices (ride an e-bike or ride a proper bike) model

Turner? Never heard of them.
I dont get why some people cant tell the difference between a pedal assisted bicycle & a CR500 motocrosser.

From MTBR April 17

[i]Christina Turner was just involved in a head on collision with e Ebike in CA

Someone posted this in a CO MTN bike group. I have no additional details. Hope she is ok and hope this puts more focus on getting ebikes banned from all non-motorized trails.

"Christina Turner (hubby owns Turner Bikes) was just involved in a head on collision with an Ebike in CA. Ebikes not allowed on trail she was riding. Not only was rider going too fast for conditions on a blind corner, but was also riding against travel direction. Heal quick. Great gal, amazing rider. Not good for the Ebike movement." [/i]

Turner? Never heard of them.

You need to read up Mr.

Small boutique brand of previously Made In USA full suss bikes. DT hugely influential in MTB circles and built some of the most iconic bikes ever, that wrapped in top notch customer service and respected quality of product.

Move to carbon has been good but now made in Taiwan. Rumours of an aluminum Sultan though..

They don't really have a marketing budget, so not as in your face as other brands.

My Turner Czar has seen 11000 miles. They last too.

So some idiot was riding the wrong way (on an ebike) , he's a utter nob, but he'd be doing that on a normal bike. Ok maybe the speed wouldn't be the same, but the actions of the individual would be. You can't factor in people miss using Ebikes, the same could be said for every motorist caught speeding and causing a crash...ban all cars, I think not. Same can be said for the idiot that killed that women on the road track bike, it was his actions, I don't see the hate for all track bikes to be burned at the stake?!! Lol. And let's just be honest and think about the whole 'ban Ebikes off trails' how do you even remotely consider enforcing that? Ridiculas , and to be fair, the people who make comments like that show there intellect. The main problem will come in a few years when Ebikes start filtering down the second hand chain and into the price range of people who really don't care one way or another what or where or how fast they ride.

I don't see the hate for all track bikes to be burned at the stake?!! Lol.

No, but they are banned................lol?

. I have no additional details. Hope she is ok

Think I have seen facebook posts of hers since then.

The one rider I know who's a huge eMTB fan also has plenty of KOMs on a normal MTB and managed two consecutive years of 1,000,000 feet of ascent on his MTB. Fat or lazy?

I did a double take, he was overweight

'Course he was, he was on an ebike 😆

The one rider I know who's a huge eMTB fan also has plenty of KOMs on a normal MTB and managed two consecutive years of 1,000,000 feet of ascent on his MTB. Fat or lazy?

Are you asking Dave Turner?

He might pop up I suppose, he did start this off on the PB comments after all.

Not really because I was posting those to counter the 2 choices (ride an e-bike or ride a proper bike) model

You originally posted that you knew 3 riders who choose e-bikes but would not have chosen proper bike's. So essentially choose A or B. And then subsequently introduced person 4 who choose an e-bikes to ride further and faster than they did their proper bike. So not having to choose A or B, thus supporting your point, it's not an A or B decision. Almost like you reviewed your original post and realised the first three people had made an A or B choice, so person 4 was remembered. Either way, I agree it's not just a choice or e-bikes or proper bike.

smell_it - Member

You originally posted that you knew 3 riders who choose e-bikes but would not have chosen proper bike's.

Yes, as a response to people saying "people with e-bikes should be on proper bikes" That's me presenting the 3rd choice, none of those people made an A/B choice. Ride a normal bike, ride an e-bike, don't ride.

"Every time I see an adult on an e-bicycle, I despair for the future of the human race."

H.G. Wells

It's just encouraging the type of people who ride motox bikes down canal paths.

Ebikes are great utility bikes for the less able.

That's all I have to say.

Northwind - must just be me being thick, I agreed with your point but was confused with the examples you originally used. But apologies if I didn't get your intended point.

some idiot was riding the wrong way (on an ebike) , he's a utter nob, but he'd be doing that on a normal bike

While I understand the point you are making, there is the possibility that the person riding the wrong way would not have been on the trail if e-bikes didn't exist. E-bikes, especially de restricted ones, will appeal to more groups than those too old or injured to ride a bike. I'm talking about yobs, in case that isn't clear.

I also think that riding an ebike because it is faster will also appeal to the more yobbish mountain bikers, in turn leading to more yobbish behaviour.

"Every time I see an adult on an e-bicycle, I despair for the future of the human race."

I wish I'd thought of that.

I met a family on hired ebikes at the top of Whinlatter red the other day, they were looking a bit terrified at the prospect of riding down something even slightly technical. The easy climb (on an ebike) obviously didn't prepare them for the difficult bit!

I still can't make my mind up if it's a good thing that they were out on a bike in the first place, or bad that it is an accident waiting to happen.

I met a family on hired ebikes at the top of Whinlatter red the other day, they were looking a bit terrified at the prospect of riding down something even slightly technical. The easy climb (on an ebike) obviously didn't prepare them for the difficult bit!

I still can't make my mind up if it's a good thing that they were out on a bike in the first place, or bad that it is an accident waiting to happen.

Excellent point!

On another note, I have never been out riding in the Peaks / Lakes / Alps etc. and thought "I wish there were more bikes on the trails"

i ride with my mates every tuesday and thursday and some weekends, im much slower, less fitter, older and less skilled than them, usually they have to wait for me at the top of climbs and they never complain, id say with my mates im usually 50 yards behindbut im keen and always ready to try new things, steps, drop offs, gap jumps. Towards the end of our 2 hr+ rides is when i have my offs, usually because im knackered. ive ridden with them for 4 years, as i get fitter so do they, so its never going to change.
i now also have an ebike, they dont wait for me any more, fewer offs, more flow and we ride further, we ALL have more fun. its not an uphill work out any more on the legs, but im always breathing hard trying to keep up, and with a lot more downs its a good work out for the thighs (more standing up). before anyone points out that i might be fat,old and lazy, i nearly always do 10 miles on my liteville before i go out with my mates, so i have earned my e bike miles.
people buy e bikes for all sorts of reasons to me my reason is pretty valid.

I met a family on hired ebikes at the top of Whinlatter red the other day, they were looking a bit terrified at the prospect of riding down something even slightly technical. The easy climb (on an ebike) obviously didn't prepare them for the difficult bit!

I still can't make my mind up if it's a good thing that they were out on a bike in the first place, or bad that it is an accident waiting to happen.

if they had hired ordinary bikes and still rode up Whinlatter, would they be any less terrified? they might have been even more at risk, riding down the technical trails knackered ?

No issues with ebikes or their users here.

I still can't make my mind up if it's a good thing that they were out on a bike in the first place, or bad that it is an accident waiting to happen.

Half the folk i see on regular mtbs are also accidents waiting to happen. Ban moderately fit, keen but skill-less riders? Didn't think so 😆

I once rode with a chap who can generate enough power to match me on an ebike, he buries most people on most climbs.

I wouldn't be confident he could get down a blue descent without crashing or having a serious moment. He freely admits he probably couldn't

He's a roadie/triathlist... ban him for his own safety?

On another note, I have never been out riding in the Peaks / Lakes / Alps etc. and thought "I wish there were more bikes on the trails"

Like many others here, I coach kids in my spare time and one of the reasons I do this is because I want to pass to them the skills and enthusiasm for the sport I love, which I hope will stay with them life-long. If this means the trails have a few extra riders on them then I would consider this a measure of our success and certainly not something to be complained about.

LAT - Member
there is the possibility that the person riding the wrong way would not have been on the trail if e-bikes didn't exist. E-bikes, especially de restricted ones, will appeal to more groups than those too old or injured to ride a bike. I'm talking about yobs, in case that isn't clear.

Man, meet straw. Oh, you already have? Marvelous, carry on then!

if they had hired ordinary bikes and still rode up Whinlatter, would they be any less terrified? they might have been even more at risk, riding down the technical trails knackered ?

My point was that ebikes make trails more accessible. That has both good and bad sides.

In that particular example I'm not sure a complete novice would get up the climb, or at least they would certainly question if they were experienced enough.

i think an ebike would get you up somewhere steep where your legs may not on an ordinary bike but if you havent got technical skills the ebike wont help you much on technical trails.
i think ebikes can make trails more accessible but not technical trails for novices, and i have first hand experience of this hehe

This was a good honest piece on eBikes on PB...
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/living-with-an-emtb-after-the-honeymoon.html

Before we all blame the fat, lazy and disabled yobs for getting into situations that we pure bread athletes would avoid by just being alive, may I remind you that Lady Cannings broke the record for the number of times Edale mountain rescue had to use their stretcher.

Perhaps we need to look at ourselves a bit closer.

we pure bread athletes

Hey, don't tell everyone about my secret high-gluten nutrition plan.

I'm 100% Hovis

I'm 100% Hovis

You in training for the cobbled classics already?

No I'm doing it on an electric bike so I can piss everyone off.