Years ago I used to compete in NEMBA, NAMBS (?), Diamondback Sportage series, boltby bash etc.
Does this sort of xc racing still exist?
Southern XC series is very much it. As is Gorrick
Thetford Winter Series?
Mud, sweat and gears or travers mtb series
FNSS?
I have done a few Midlands XC events, but not seen any announcements for this year
Crank It might start again, also was it Midweek Madness doing one Lee Quarry last or this week?
Covid isnt it.
FNSS is still hoping to put on a few events. Others have held off, as there is no point organising something that is going to be cancelled tomorrow.
I'm in a similar situation with a kayak trip I've got planned. 40-50 taking part, but, we havent had the go ahead from CART, so I cant open entries, and it'll probably be cancelled now, as it was due to be on 11th July, probably a little too near to get the numbers required.
Beastway in London is running the whole series currently in London, Round 6 (I think) next Wednesday.
Nowhere near any of those. Is it Covid, or is it the shift towards enduro or marathon type events?
I asked this somewhere else and the feeling was it’s a bit of Covid and a bit of a move away from as much xc. Weird really as you’d think the average getting into mtb rider could manage an xc course but might struggle with enduro or marathon?
Is getting venues the issue? There never seem to be any in the Sheffield/ high peak area which must be lack of venues?
I've done a couple of southern cc events this year, really well run, fun courses and massive fields. A lot of people come a long way which I guess makes sense if other areas lack races.
Not much I the Midlands but appears to be a Covid/volunteer issue from what I've heard.
Some clubmates were somewhere in Yorkshire yesterday for an event
Grassroots XC is very much dependent on finding a venue, someone/ a team of organisers daft enough to run it, resolving lots of logistical issues, keeping you nerve when most decide to enter on the day, sponsors etc, and the ability to get at least 10 people to commit to marshalling ahead of the race, timing system that works,
Can't see why they aren't running in every area........
Weird really as you’d think the average getting into mtb rider could manage an xc course but might struggle with enduro or marathon?
The benefit of enduro and marathon is they have something in them for those at the bottom. There’s a pride in just finishing the thing.
I probably won’t be entering an XC race anytime soon, I need to lose ten kilos and train myself to ride at threshold for an hour and a half.
Why don't we have very simple XC races, where you just do one big lap and the first to cross the line wins. No marshals, no timing, no forms, no numbers, no bogs, no faffing about. Bit like a mates race.
Just tape out a course that covers a good mix of ground / woods / climbs / descents etc. Start in a big group and off you go. Take a fiver in cash to enter, limit it to what you think the course can take. Its mountain biking, it should not need to be complicated, we are not roadies who need the right length socks FFS 🙂
Anyone serious can see their actual times / positions via Strava.
I did quite a few XC races in the late 80's / early 90's that were this simple.
Scottish Cross Country Series and Gorrickswere where instated out, both still going strong, at least before covid they were.
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Trimix, are you a fellrunner? Sounds exactly like almost hill race ever, but with a bike
You can do all that @trimix up to the bit where you charge a fiver. You're talking about a middle ground between a mates race and a race that doesn't really exist any more. As soon as you charge an entry fee it puts you in a different space.
also was it Midweek Madness doing one Lee Quarry last or this week?
Aye and one last month in Southern Manchester on pretty much the only sunny evening. Everyone seemed to be having a grand time
“ Why don’t we have very simple XC races, where you just do one big lap and the first to cross the line wins.”
If you own a large bit of suitable land and can deal with the insurance etc then that would be easy. If not, then it’s not that simple!
Might work in Scotland trimix but you aren't legally supposed to race on bridleways. And locals might notice your taped out 20 plus mile course 🙂
Saying that, the exact same thing worked splendidly for SSUK in Kentmere. Unfortunately it is very reliant on everyone not being a dick. It won't be long before an "organiser" gets held responsible for an accident without full permission and safety cover etc.
Shit loads down south, naff all in the Norf, give or take a few mid-week races.
The benefit of enduro and marathon is they have something in them for those at the bottom. There’s a pride in just finishing the thing.
I know what you mean, but I get more satisfaction and reward from thrashing myself for an hour or two in a local XC race than I do from wobbling my way to a lower-mid-pack result in an enduro race.
Hoping grassroots XC will see a lift from the combined effect of masses of newcomers to MTB at the same time as World Cup XC is the coolest it's been for decades.
Why don’t we have very simple XC races, where you just do one big lap and the first to cross the line wins. No marshals, no timing, no forms, no numbers, no bogs, no faffing about. Bit like a mates race.
Just tape out a course that covers a good mix of ground / woods / climbs / descents etc. Start in a big group and off you go. Take a fiver in cash to enter, limit it to what you think the course can take. Its mountain biking, it should not need to be complicated, we are not roadies who need the right length socks FFS
Why don't you organise one? If the model works others can/ will copy it.
I know Mr Gorrick and that's literally all he does. Absolutely raking it in.
Err, except not.
Huge effort involved with sorting landowner access, particularly MOD/DIO down in the Gorrick area. Insurances, support for medical care, now CV restrictions as well....... as well as just organising the event itself. It takes a huge amount of work by him and his team to run the events they do (hat tipped)
It's easy to say a mates race and everyone knows what they're doing but say someone got hurt, and couldn't work (self employed) and then claimed on their incapacity insurance. They may well have signed a disclaimer (but- would you bother with those, it's only a mates' race after all) but there could still be liability even then, sufficient that their insurers would start to pursue to mitigate their loss. And a whole can of worms opens......
I do wonder at times what concerns Strava have / had in that model. 'I got injured because I was trying to set a KoM on Strava and hit a tree, now I can't work for 6 months.....' - do Strava have any responsibility?
I do wonder at times what concerns Strava have / had in that model. ‘I got injured because I was trying to set a KoM on Strava and hit a tree, now I can’t work for 6 months…..’ – do Strava have any responsibility?
Recollect they were sued in the early days when an intrepid KOM hunter crashed and died - his family brought the suit in the US. Got dismissed.
It's the same situation here in Germany. Most of the XC race series died a few years ago. A lot of the marathon events are going the same way. But if you go over the border to Poland or the Czech Republic their races have massive attendance.
I'd say it does - I organised an event yesterday!
First one since March last year. Turnout was lower than we might have expected, but we weren't really sure what to expect. Fast people and youths (teenage and upwards) turned up in numbers, as you would probably expect.
Rather than normal XCO, we went for self-selecting ability based races on a shorter than normal course for about 45 mins per race, trying to keep the emphasis on fun and getting back into it, with manual scoring rather than electronic so we could keep the entry fee down. Everyone seemed to have a good time.
Why don’t we have very simple XC races, where you just do one big lap and the first to cross the line wins. No marshals, no timing, no forms, no numbers, no bogs, no faffing about. Bit like a mates race.
Insurance. The event organiser is responsible for anything that might happen. I'm not prepared to risk losing my house to provide someone with a bike race. Insurers insist on certain things being in place before they will provide cover. Those things take a lot of organisation and some of them are expensive.
Are there any mountain bike marathons? I did the yorkshire one yesterday and remembered how much I like them. A quick look suggests any events are down south. Not great for me as I'm in Newcastle.
I guess it's down to what people want. I feel there has been a resurgence in people riding XC mtb and the latest crop of big talent doing the XCO and the quality of the circuits will help.
Might take a while for it to filter down. It took a couple of years for CX to boom.
Organising is hard though. Poor support from the national body. Lots of effort and risk placed on volunteers. Unless you can guarantee a good turnout why bother? 500 riders in Yorkshire so obviously a market if done well.
My team is trying to put on three mid week events in Newcastle. We have a friendly venue but it will still be a lot of work. Likely to be a hard CX course done on mtbs though rather than a proper mtb race. Limited by location.
Why don’t we have very simple XC races, where you just do one big lap and the first to cross the line wins. No marshals, no timing, no forms, no numbers, no bogs, no faffing about. Bit like a mates race.
Just tape out a course that covers a good mix of ground / woods / climbs / descents etc. Start in a big group and off you go. Take a fiver in cash to enter, limit it to what you think the course can take. Its mountain biking, it should not need to be complicated, we are not roadies who need the right length socks FFS
Is it that simple? Me, Big_n_daft and the rest of the HTN & Brownbacks must have been doing it all wrong back in the day I guess.
Enjoyed it at the time but am in no mood to put myself through it again thankyouverymuch.
Why don’t we have very simple XC races, where you just do one big lap and the first to cross the line wins. No marshals, no timing, no forms, no numbers, no bogs, no faffing about. Bit like a mates race.
No insurance, no first aid, no emergency contact details, no access permissions? Anything else it doesn't need?
It’s so sad that a bunch of consenting adults can’t just go and have fun in the woods without worrying about insurance and liability.
It would be exactly the same risks as every uninsured group ride we all do week in, week out.
We’re allowed to have sex without insurance, and that comes with all kinds of risks.
Crazy, crazy world.
Anyway, that’s why grass roots racing has died.
It’s so sad that a bunch of consenting adults can’t just go and have fun in the woods without worrying about insurance and liability.
They can. Just don't advertise it and take payment, cos then it's an official race and needs all the crap. Nothing to stop you ragging around the place with your mates is there?
Races are a different context because the activity and hence the course has been provided for you by an organisation, therefore it's responsible for what happens. It's not without merit though. When you pay to enter an organised event you might not be familiar with the course or terrain, and you have to put your trust in the organiser that it's safe and there aren't any children or cows on the course or blind gap jumps etc. If there were you'd expect to have some sort of recourse, as would the owners of the cow or the child that you maim.
These restrictions weren't just made up to piss us off - they came about for reasons. I'm not saying they are perfect rules, but there's a reason we have the setup we do.
Anyway, that’s why grass roots racing has died.
I don't think so - it's because alternative events were conceived which ended up more fun and having more appeal. XC racing is hard work and can be quite dull, it only appeals to a particular sub-section of MTBers.
It’s so sad that a bunch of consenting adults can’t just go and have fun in the woods without worrying about insurance and liability.
It would be exactly the same risks as every uninsured group ride we all do week in, week out.
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Go on, organise one, nobody is stopping you
Anyway, that’s why grass roots racing has died.
No it's struggling because (nearly) everyone wants someone else to organise it, be the change you want to see and organise one or twenty five
It’s so sad that a bunch of consenting adults can’t just go and have fun in the woods without worrying about insurance and liability.
It's all good fun until something goes wrong. If a rider gets hurt then it is bad, if someone out for a stroll with their dog gets hurt then you are in the shit. The rules are to protect the organiser as much as the rider, the walker or their dog.
HTN had to have a couple of million quids worth of liability insurance for such an eventuality. And if an insurance company are going to provide that they will want some assurance that the organiser knows what they are doing and has systems in place. Closures, course marking, first aid, marshals and all the rest of it.
There's a difference between messing about in the woods and staging a race.
SXC race yesterday at Cathkin Braes. £15 an entry all levels. Six separate races to cater for all levels.
If I'd seen the event a day or two earlier I could have entered and trust me any race I'm allowed to enter is pretty "grassroots"
It’s all good fun until something goes wrong. If a rider gets hurt then it is bad, if someone out for a stroll with their dog gets hurt then you are in the shit. The rules are to protect the organiser as much as the rider, the walker or their dog.
Yes, very true, but that's not my objection.
The risks are the same, race or no race, so it's not very logical for liability to change.
And adults should be able to say "I accept full responsibility for whatever happens to me" without it being undermined. Disclaimers should mean something.
We don't sue the forestry every time we break a bone, do we? (I'd be rich)
organise your own race then
Bit of a flawed argument as there's little chance of riding in your own race...
Bit of a flawed argument as there’s little chance of riding in your own race…
Not really, I'm pretty sure the organiser of the NWCCA series of CX races at Broughton Hall over the last few months put in a pretty strong appearance in his cat. This is the attitude problem, too many want to take part and not give anything back, we're thankful that there are some regualr volunteers out there who are willing to give up their time to organise races and events throughout the year,
Sometimes we're dumbfounded when numbers are low in comparison to some of the enduro or marathon events, yet people complain about events not being available, yet we've got a reasonable calendar this year including a 2 day National Champs at www.BMBO.org.uk. Is it because people have to read a map and think a bit?
Is it because people have to read a map and think a bit?
I thought it was more of a Marin riders group therapy........... 😉
Funny. there's a parallel discussion on the King Alfred's Way fb page about admin deleting posts from people attempting to ride it in one go.
Obviously everyone attempting will have an idea about the time they might be able to do it if everything goes well, and 24hours is a nice target.
Apparently though, this is "riding against the clock" and that's racing, which is illegal on public rights of way, so must be discouraged. If not, ever increasing numbers of people riding round 220 miles in a one go will put the future of the collection of public rights of way at risk.
Apparently.
The risks are the same, race or no race, so it’s not very logical for liability to change.
except they aren't, people behave differently in races. The responsibilities for the space change and people rightly expect it to be safe and that there is provision for dealing with when it goes wrong. and toilets and results that are quick and accurate, and some food and a hot brew, and prizes, and a well marked course, and somewhere to park and.......
The first race I organised with a lot of help from volunteers off here saw 5 people visit A&E after treatment on site including a bike journalist on the warm up lap and the organiser of the NWCCA series mentioned above. All managed because we had thought it through and got the right people to support us there on the day
which is illegal on public rights of way, so must be discouraged
bridleways have a peculiarity that they can't be raced over at all, ever, unless it's Whinlatter and then they get a pass. I remember the organiser of the Commonwealth Games race having a very big rant about this once (not Whinlatter)
To be honest if I was the admin I'd be deleting the posts as the poster was stupid and should just go and quietly do his ride and not shout "STRAVA" at anyone in their way.
And adults should be able to say “I accept full responsibility for whatever happens to me” without it being undermined. Disclaimers should mean something.
What about the general public who aren't part of your race?
just go and quietly do his ride and not shout “STRAVA”
How about "I'm riding all day, so I'm keeping to Zone 2" ? Or is that still too loud?
How about “I’m riding all day, so I’m keeping to Zone 2” ? Or is that still too loud?
I think the laughing by any anyone you share that line with will be louder
