[Closed] Does commuting numb you to how bad drivers are?

Driving standards are very low because we don't test better. I drive to work mostly and I get sick and tired of having to expect the worst of other drivers. Needless to say they always fulfill my expectations.

In defence of the Driving Instructor; he was probably concerned about his learner - who may have been quite stressed already without having to worry about the consequences of his bad driving.

Well for a start you need to report the driving instructor to his employer. I suppose you do get used to it though.

Driving numbs me to how bad drivers are and therefore nothing surprises me when out on the bike.

I cannot believe that I did not clock the name of the driving school.

I agree the instructor needs to keep calm but surely a simple sorry would have been in order.

No, commuting through Bristol, each day by bike, I'm pretty well aware just how atrocious driving standards are. If they are not either impatient, ignorant, inept or a combination of all three, they're a rare bird indeed.

I steer clear of people who use indicators in particular. If they're using their indicators, it usually means they're not local, don't have a clue what is going on, and are likely to sideswipe you or plain drive over you at any moment. Nobody in Bristol, uses their indicators, ever.

That said, most people on bikes also appear to be spectacularly inept too, some just plain stupid.

Agree with your last point ADH. Somtimes the way people cycle is stupid in the extreme

Not too bad here in the burgh in recent times.

a simple sorry would have been in order

Absolutely agree.

The quality of driving is going down most definitely, aligned to athe steady increase in the number of cars on the roads.

If anything I'd say my commute has made me a lot more aware as a driver. In reality if I stopped to think about what I see and the allowances you find yourself making on the road for idiot drivers I don't think I'd back on my bike, too scary by half. There's only a couple of centimeters of helmet separating my head from their bumper...

aP hit the nail on the head.

Commuting definitely doesn't numb me it makes me so angry... that I have to go out on my bike to relax...

Drivers may be stupid but they are stupid in a predictable way. If you assume that everyone in a car is going to misjudge your speed, fail to signal, speed up through amber lights and generally ignore your existence, you'll be fine.

Since I am back in clarkson town I really miss the chavs from hampshire, commuting here is a pain...

Thats very true Mr Agreeable. On my way home I know that on several junctions going up a hill drivers will try to pass me at the last minute to turn left across my path. I know this will happen so I move out further into the lane which makes this less likely to happen. If I see a car at a junction I expect it to pull out, on certain parts of the road if I don't ride wide I expect to be pushed into the kerb. However if a driving instructor is teaching a driver that it's okay to pull out in front of a cyclist then that's wholly unacceptable. Did the driver not have dual control?

The last few years of commuting have made me much more aware as a road user (ped., cyclists, driver), and I hope a safer person on the road.

I used to get really ratty on the bike at the idiotic behaviour of car drivers. Then - almost overnight - I modified my view to one of assumption: I assumed that they would do idiotic things. As I learned the skills on my route to work (i.e. you get to know where people are going to do something stupid/dangerous), so these have been applied to all of my road use.

My travels around the world have shown me that, really, there is no clear "standard" of driving to which we should adhere or even aspire, but that most of the time most people are only interested in themselves, and so tend not to think particularly widely about the consequences of their actions.

Oh, and the driving instructor should have apologised. As it is, because he is a driving "professional" he probably also shares a contempt for cyclists with taxi, bus and van drivers. So, even though he ought to have said sorry, he probably actually didn't give a sh*t. Either that, or the instructor was Glupton... 😉

There are idiot drivers and idiot cyclists, like the one that took my wing mirror off last week as he was filtering between cars and the pavement 🙄

Either that, or the instructor was Glupton... [:wink:]

Ant, I think you are making my point, just in a differnt way.

When I was regualarly commuting I expected the worst and compensated for it. I have to get back into that way of thinking or I will end up very annoyed or under a car!

It is bloody dangerous out there.

Really mad now that I did not clock the driving instructors school :(. More I think about it the madder I get.

I've always thought that driving with your fog lights on, when its not foggy was illegal though saying that I've seen police do it and more often driving instructors doing it all the time. I think partly I'm getting old and grumpy but it really pisses me off to be blinded by some **** who doesn't understand simple phrases like 'fog' ..I mean, its not exactly rocket science, is it.

And then there's the emphasism on speed being the most dangerous thing to the roads out there, wtf, driving standards are appalling nowadays but unfortunately I don't see what can be done about it.

If you want to know excatly how bad drivers are; how little they see things, their poor lane discipline, woeful signalling, lack of advanced planning: put yourself through a different licence category test - Motorcycle, PSV, HGV, Tracked Vehicle(?). Being taught the additional observation techniques is really eye-opening.

Commuting for a year in London just made me a really aggressive, impatient, nasty cyclist. Glad I'm out of it and can go back to sniffing daisies.

My commute has made me aware that there are plenty of car driver in the Rochdale area that are **** pr1cks. However there are also some that restore my faith in humanity, usually those i see whilst not cycling in Rochdale.....

Commuting doesn't numb you. Have driving standards got worse? - yes I'd have to agree. But then again I see some pretty mad cycle moves too.

For years I've never suffered being overtaken when exiting right off main roads but within the last few months I've been overtaken twice 🙄 Just the same as I've done for years I look back, check there is time to pull across to the centre of the road, signal and pull into the centre as I approach the junction but on the two occasions the cars behind had some kind of VIP syndrome that meant they couldn't brake and reduce their speed for a cyclist to the extent that they overtook 🙄

Similar happens when entering a narrowed section of road such as when cars are parked each side. Drivers can't brake and slow down and wait to pass giving adequate space - no mostly they'll either push you into the parked car wing mirrors, (if you let them) or hassle your behind if you ride defensively.

The VIP syndrome extends to school drop offs where day after day drivers park on double yellows and or the zigzag safety zone lines and bark at traffic wardens as if they've been hard done by when they get a ticket.

Too much traffic and personal detachment on the roads in my opinion compared to 25 years ago.

i,m a taxi driver and i personaly think we are some of the best drivers on the road, given a milage to incident ratio.
but i agree with the comment which i apply whilst driving"expect people to make errors and dont get angry when they do,just anticipate them!

[sticks head in oven] too many people, in cars, bicycles, pedestrians, all jostling for their personal space, we end up becoming desensitized to others needs and the risks involved in our selfish quest for our journey, it'll only get worse [/sticks head in oven]

DAMN - ITS ELECTRIC!!!!!!!!!!

😳

What really boils my piss these days is people's behaviour at red lights - they just don't seem to register any more. The lights turn red, mine turn green so I set off and people STILL keep driving through the red. Its the one guaranteed occurrence on any commute I do and it really REALLY winds me up. I was just stood next to some lights the other day waiting to cross (on foot), the lights turned red, one guy was still moving so went through - just about acceptable (bot not really) so I was about to step out and the guy behind just kept moving and nearly took me out, giving me a cursory wave with his hand on the way past. C***.

had a big merc taxi driver run a red and nearly take me out at a junction and then give me finger this morning!

I've just got back from 12 days in Turkey. British driving is not as bad as you all think.

i,m a taxi driver and i personaly think we are some of the best drivers on the road, given a milage to incident ratio.

I find taxi drivers in bristol some of the worst. The only reason more accidents don't happen is becuase everyone expects you to drive like a moron. Almost as bad a first bus, I swear first will fit roman chairot style axle blades next.

The best I find are actually HGV drivers, they have an immensly difficult job threading a 40 ton articulated lorry through the crowed streets, yet most are patient, courteous and very highly aware of everything that is going on 360degrees around them. It is mostly a pleasure to share roadspace with them.

In contrast, most other motorists appear unable to look beyond the end of their nose.

yesterday - pack of 15 riders riding to dunkeld

All on our own side of the road (and about 2 foot inside the middle white line) operating a side by side chain gang

Campervan cutting a corner just about takes us out and has the cheek to gesture that we need to get over the road .......typical - would he have gestured if it was a car - which would have given him less space !

the standard of cyclist is pretty damn poor.

yesterday as i drive out of town (60 limit) i spot two wobbly new summer cyclists, i guess in their late forties or early fifties.
They are about to join the main road from my left, and i can see them from a couple of hundred yards away they are both going quite slowly.

They both fail to stop at the give way markings, fail to even see me, just roll straight onto the main road, the guy swan necks himself across the carriageway and mounts the pavement (20yds in front of me) and the woman pulls out all of 5yds in front of me, about 10yds past her is a road narrowing bollard!

Obviously bikes are like white vans, they dont have to give way at junctions.

I think Mr Agreeable has it summed up perfectly:

Drivers may be stupid but they are stupid in a predictable way. If you assume that everyone in a car is going to misjudge your speed, fail to signal, speed up through amber lights and generally ignore your existence, you'll be fine.

That's been my mantra of 18 years commuting!

Agreed about doing a different test category...

The car test should be to the same standard as the motorcycle test - in fact, if all car drivers had to pass a CBT on 2 wheels they would be far more aware of other road users.

A mandatory re-test at regular intervals would also be very, very good - a far more effective road safety measure than all of these so called "safety cameras" that actually do very little / nothing about the standard of driving. Not necessarily take away a driving licence if you fail you re-test - but maybe submit drivers to a training programme if they fail their re-test.

I think a lot of driving standards deterioration is down to the fact that alot of the rules aren't enforced and when they are it's almost in an apologetic way. If speed limits are important (and IMHO they are) then if you are breaking them you should get fined, heavily, no dayglo cameras to spot and avoid, I'm not convinced about the education courses either to be honest. No to only put cameras where there is an alleged accident blackspot (local pressure group / local councillors house), either the speedlimit is appropriate and should be stuck to or it's not which comes onto rant no 2.

Inappropriate speedlimits. Here I'm on the side of the drivers, where have all these 20 mph limits appeared from on through roads? I've no issue with lower limits on residential streets, infact they are a good idea but on main through routes, mental. All it does is get drivers 'used' to breaking the limits and ignoring speed limits where they are more appropriate. This speed limit reduction bandwagon seems to be hitting dual carriageways now as well, sections that were 70 are now down to 50 or even 40.

I think it's time our whole road network was looked at, appropriate speed limits where they are warranted, additional safety equipment, e.g. barriers where speedlimits are higher and pedestrains are likely to be around. Couple with that with a 5 year driving appraisal, don't test the basic mechanics of driving, test the attitude of drivers, should be fairly easy to spot the really bad drivers in a test situation. Everyone drives more carefully when observed so the bad drivers should still stand out and couple it all to more appropriate enforcement, no ambiguious double standards, if you break the rules you get done (just ensure the restrictions are appropriate to the road).

The more we allow people to regularly break the rules and get away with it or the more the media is allowed to denigrate enforcement activities (speed cameras - a tax on motorists my a*se) the more driving habits will slowly worsen at the same time giving drivers an exceuse to justify poor driving, I know I think like that sometimes. It also filters down to cyclists, how often do we hear the justification for poor cycling based on the poor driving standards of car drivers.

Just for some balance I've seen plenty of cyclists jump lights.

Not too long ago a couple of cyclists jumped a red then cut across the oncoming cars forcing the cars to stop to turn right. I caught them up at the next set of lights (a pedestrain crossing) where they were giving some abuse to an old man trying to cross the crossing whilst the green man was on! ****ts too intent on their ride time and just the sort of people to cause car drivers to lack respect and time for cyclists.

I am staggered just how bad the drivers are out there. I am sure it has not gotten any worse. Cannot believe I just grew to tolerate it :-(.

I didnt think I had grown to tolerate it - I can identify a fair bit of frankly shocking driving every day and can get a bit vocal with drivers if needed.

However I "escorted" (if thats the right word?) a mate a couple of miles today on his first cycle commute through Glasgow (down cumerbernauld road and along the parade) and dropped him off at his work. I think he just wanted someone to make sure he was okay. He done fine, road positioning was assertive and he didnt ride in the gutter etc.

Got to his work and I stopped for a chat before heading into my work and he was actually shaking he was so scared / shocked by the cars! He said he couldn't believe how bad the driving was, how little space he got and how aggressive the car drivers were with him. I dont think he is ever going to attempt to cycle to work again during any busy period.

As for me - I didn't see anything to shocking this morning - I thought we had a pretty clear run. Perhaps you do get used to it! 🙁

[i]He said he couldn't believe how bad the driving was, how little space he got and how aggressive the car drivers were with him[/i]

I've got three blokes at work into road riding now, it's a similar story from each one. Within a couple of days their whole attitude to car drivers changed, I bet their driving improved too. I still think riding about on a bike for a reasonable period should be a mandatory pre-requisite to being able to drive a car/lorry.

I still think riding about on a bike for a reasonable period should be a mandatory pre-requisite to being able to drive a car/lorry.

[b]Taxi.[/b] Please put taxi drivers on a bike. Once a year when then they should also have to resit their driving test.

Never happen though 🙁

It baffles me at times at how little space some drivers give cyclists too
some drivers need to check this out http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314
I look like a mobile lollipop man in all my dayglo and still I get plebs getting ridiculously close. I have ammended my route to avoid a notoriously bad road as it was getting a bit ridicuous. Licolshire drivers are quite possibly the worst I have shared the road with. I regularly see the loons dicing with death when I am in my car I mean is a possible fatality worth 10 minutes??

on the contrary , i never ceased to be amazed at how unaware most people are, when i cycle to work the most regular hazard is 4 wheel drives letting kids out for the school . if traffic has stoppednear the school the passenger door will open and teenage kid emerge into the cycle lane without looking and wired up with i- players and whatever , damn near shit themeselves every time they see a bike IN THE BIKE LANE .doh.!.