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You couldn't stick a decent route together round our neck of the woods without riding footpaths. I ride them all the time and wouldn't think twice about it. Just be civil and considerate with walkers and I can't see a problem.
It probably helps that its a post industrial northern landscape that no-one gives a toss about, rather than the lake district. I wouldn't ride on a footpath near a Windermere tea shop, on a Saturday afternoon
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These rights of way threads keep popping up more and more...
We are far too individual and fractured as mountain bikers and have no real voice in these issues- what organisation represents cycling inerests in rights of ways issues and how can some of these daft after thought laws be challenged?
I try to avoid footpaths but do use them with a bit of consideration as others have already said. It is footpaths through wide open flat fields I can't understand. Keeping motorbikes off I can understand but when it is never used for anything agricultural I can't see the negative inpact of riding a bike across. Obviously this is a very specific example but the list of RoW daftness is almost endless. Bridleways that end abruptly and turn in to footpaths is another favourite
DanW I'm not sure I want an organisation lobbying on 'my' behalf though. Most of the time most MTB riders just get on with it, there's no real problem, it's not like there hoards of us damaging crops or destroying the countryside, most posts on this are " yep, but with a bit of common sense"
Take away that need for reserve, and it could become a bit of a free for all.
I wouldn't ride on a footpath near a Windermere tea shop, on a Saturday afternoon
As discussed above, it's not all that good an idea riding a BW near a Windermere tea shop on a Saturday afternoon.
I have to admit I find this thread quite encouraging. It may be my memory playing tricks, but there does seem to have been a definite shift in the STW community towards the idea of just pretending we have Scottish access laws and getting on with it - a good thing IMHO. I certainly didn't used to ride FPs, until I realised, to borrow a phrase from cheekytrails, silly isn’t it. Though having checked the ethics on the cheekytrails site, I'd suggest that if anything they're not quite radical enough.
I rode to work this morning (get me!), there was the usual 30 strong que of cars waiting at the junction, i normally can make my way down the side on the road, but some of these people were so close to the curb there wasn't room, so yes i jumped up on the path and circumnavigated them to get near the front...
i'm sure someone took offense, because five minutes later someone came past me very close to my bars...
We weren't discussing riding on pavements.
One of my favorite outings is along parts of the Gower coast path. I tend to keep away at peak times and have not had much of a problem - usually on my cx bike rather than the mtb - have had more of a problem on the mtb but people don't seem as bothered by the cx.
Nipper. I stayed in the Gower a few years ago, and got up early every morning to get that stretch of coast path in while there was no-one about. Its blinding!!!
Rarely ride on footpaths but wouldn't hesitate to if it was a good route and there was no reasonable reason not too.
For the last 15 years, myself and my friends have been mtbing a certain footpath (Higher Disley to Higher POynton end of Lyme park if anyone's interested) which is obviously an old cart track on the gritstone trail. This track is between 2 bridleways.
Now the best policy would be to apply to make it into a continuous bridleway, however after speaking to a ROW officer, he said they had been turning a blind eye to the cycling for many years and to try and make it legal would stir up a can of worms, maybe having the opposite affect of us being completely banned. The law is an ass.
Move to Scotland! - it's all fair game up here, so long as you show respect to other users. Was an eye opener when I moved to York for a few years and experienced a very different view on land use, e.g. a locked and barbed wire encased gate across a footpath.
What like this ? 😉
[url= http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5498/9043624804_aba0deae83.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/92344606@N02/9043624804/ ]image[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/92344606@N02/ ]S1mmy1[/url], on Flickr
This was the other night before the rain started again. I wouldn't ride stuff like this if it was muddy or going to churn the ground up but it was bone dry so no damage was done.
Like has been said, its all about common sense and respect. Not far from where the photo was took, there's a footpath that's goes straight across the local Golf Course and, that night, I ride it as it was going up for 10 pm and no one around whereas if they were golfing or it was wet I'd push.
Can't do any more damage than one of them golf club carrying things.
I wouldn't ride the stuff in Rivi where the no bikes signs are as its too much grief off walkers, but I remember asking someone from United Utilities where the Bridleways ended and Footpaths started near the castle and they hadn't any idea and just told me to watch my speed but go anywhere.
always have always will, besides councils like Bradford have given us the same rights as walkers on their land anyway,
ilkley moor we have the same rights to exercise as a walker on common land and it is the scientific groups, historical groups, walkers groups, bird watcher groups and in fact all groups who see dog walkers as the biggest problem on the moors for fouling and disturbing nesting birds.
so we are not public enemy no.1 anymore "Bring the Noise!!!"
I ride whatever is fun and forms a loop. I am polite and deferential to walkers when on a footpath and only swear and abuse them if they whine.
"Do you know this is a footpath?",
"Yes, but its early/late/quiet, so perhaps you'll forgive me",
"you cyclists really irritate me",
"perhaps you should explore the psychological factors that make you such a miserable ****er instead of enjoying this fine morning/evening?",
"I don't see what that has to do with it, you shouldn't be here",
"oh **** off and die".
That about sums it up.
Love that ^^^^^^
I ride plenty of footpaths - completely legally, as I have the landowners permission to ride there, which supersedes any ROW issue, IMHO.
We were shouted at by a walker once, who stormed off in a huff when I explained the situation.
Cheers Sancho, Good point; awareness is increasing.
We are getting the point over for Baildon Moor, as you'll know.
http://baildonmoor.org/wordpress/?page_id=173
slowboydickie - it's far more satisfying to be overly nice to them I find. They really are lost for words then and it doesn't give us a bad name.
In other words, why lower yourself to their standards?
And trail building will soon be back on at St Ives, lots of good things happening in the Bradford area.
Now the best policy would be to apply to make it into a continuous bridleway, however after speaking to a ROW officer, he said they had been turning a blind eye to the cycling for many years and to try and make it legal would stir up a can of worms, maybe having the opposite affect of us being completely banned. The law is an ass.
I'm all for not disturbing the way things are if nobody has a problem with us riding FPs. As mentioned before on such threads I don't think a single person has ever been taken to court for riding on a FP.
The other advantage to not upgrading to a BW is that you're still allowed to race on it if it's a FP. That's where the law really is an ass.
Slowboydickie's approach got trailbuilding stopped in St Ives for 9 months. Thankfully, the local council bloke has managed to get it restarted but after much negotiation, wasted time and troubles he/we could have done without. all down to one mtber having the same attitude as slowboydickie to one other individual, who caused a storm in return.
Hell yes.
badllama:We NEVER prosecuted
. That's because you can't, surely?
Yes you can in civil courts, in fact the landowner, or person, persons under their instructions [b]can use the minimal force as is necessary[/b] to extract the said trespasser from their land.
So if your trepassing and the landowner or person/persons under their instruction come up to you and says "your trepassing please leave" all you have to say is "ok no problem I'm going" and that is that.
If you start ballooning about, making threats, damaging fences, gates or actually assault the persons asking you to leave they can pretty much in the worst case pick you up take you to the nearest edge of the said land and place you down gently to get you off the land.
BUT this is where the grey area is between using minimal force that is necessary and assult, GBH etc...
99.99% of the time never had any problems but we did have one occasion the 0.01% 🙄
Where the minimal force turned out to be 12 blokes, 3 4x4 tractors, a Rottweiler and a German Shepard 😯 New Age travelers bless their cotton socks 😀
Bridleways that end abruptly and turn in to footpaths is another favourite
That will be the Ramblers bless them when the Rights of Way were properly surveyed after the war. I regard them as lapsed bridleways and ride on regardless. Being polite and nice to all the walkers if I see any.
Yes you can in civil courts
You don't prosecute somebody in a civil court.
I'm fairly sure no cyclist has ever been taken to any court for trespass. Has anybody of any variety ever been sued for normal trespass (ie not involving any aggravating factors, just being somewhere they didn't have a right to be)?
You can be sued for damages in a civil court, if you cause damage.
1. The trespass/offence is only against the owner and only the owner, or their representative, has grounds to complain about your presence. Random dog walkers have no grounds to complain about your presence and can be politely ignored.
2. The owner has rights to evict you and use reasonable force to do so if you resist. If you are asked to leave, just leave. That's it. End of.
A slightly different version of that exchange...edited to allow you to get on with your ride.
"Do you know this is a footpath?",
"Yes."[s], but its early/late/quiet, so perhaps you'll forgive me",
"you cyclists really irritate me",
"perhaps you should explore the psychological factors that make you such a miserable ****er instead of enjoying this fine morning/evening?",
"I don't see what that has to do with it, you shouldn't be here",
"oh **** off and die".[/s]
I'm prepared to apologise to a landowner or landowner's agent, but stroppy walkers? As long as I'm not riding like a dick and running them down, it's absolutely none of their business.
Nipper99 - Member
One of my favorite outings is along parts of the Gower coast path. I tend to keep away at peak times and have not had much of a problem - usually on my cx bike rather than the mtb - have had more of a problem on the mtb but people don't seem as bothered by the cx.
My post up there ^^^^^^ was on the FP between Pwll Du and Brandy Cove, just after you pass the stile into Brandy Cove. Never had a problem before but then I rarely ride Gower when it's busy. Funnily enough the few problems I've had are with tourists on bridleways down towards Llangennith.
Yes But as stated usually on my own or with 2 other riders
always polite, happy to debate
a group of 30 to 40 ramblers on a footpath great debate with the leader on
ROW and Kinder scout....comparisions made
The Diggers and Levellers movement in 1660s and the philiosphy of land ownership
asked him to walk back 100 yards to look at the demolition of the trail by a large group of walkers
left with a cheery wave......
I have written of the immense destruction a MTB GROUP left by riding local trails cheeky and legit in wet weather over and over again with 20 plus riders..........immense damage to trails and cyclist reputations
Ride where you like but be sensible
When making a mistake of riding a lakes ridge line over christmas (we reckoned we had timed it right for it to be quiet we encountered a large group of walkers being lead by someone who had an exceedingly uncanny resemblance to Sir Chris Bonnington (down to the berghaus gear), in the end he could see the point that it was hard packed/rock based with very little erosion etc. but then he had to say it was in the park and a FP so couldn't agree with riding it. To make it better my mate set off on the only muddy bit and promptly sunk and skidded off down the hill and came off....
We moved on all amused 🙂
Spot what changes..........
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I ride it its really nice
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Oh and by the way the law has already proved that once off a bike and walking/pushing you are no longer a cyclist.
Sancho - Member
always have always will, besides councils like Bradford have given us the same rights as walkers on their land anyway,
actually this is the big issue - legal rights are the minimum - landowners can allow cycling as the Forestry Commision/Forest Enterprises does on much of their land - makes me very angry when read published policies of the likes of: - (please feel free to add and name and shame)
The National Trust
Sheffield City Council
Yorkshire Water
all have "nice" policies that talk about encouraging cycling but only grant the minimum access to their land that the law allows - a handful of concessionary paths over the last 20 years
Idle John - are you based on Gower? There is a tempting track/fp over Ryer's Down that looks like it needs investigation - you done it by any chance? The only problem i've encountered on Gower was beween Langland and Mumbles wnen some woman with her dog told me to walk back to Mumbles until she was told off by another group of walkers who asked her what harm i was doing to which she didnt have an answer!!!
A slightly different version of that exchange...edited to allow you to get on with your ride.
My last one was slightly more long winded, but then I was on a uni so had a bit more time to chat without having to stop
"Do you know this is a footpath?"
"Is it?"
"Yes it is"
"OK, fair enough" as I rode off on it.
The thing is "yes" would have been inaccurate - I checked the map when I got home and there is no ROW of any type on that particular path, which meant I had just as much right as the walker (it was a hard surfaced path, which the Conservators have at least informally said it's OK to ride on apart from where there are no cycling signs). About half of the route I was doing has no ROW at all - having checked, none of it is on FPs (on Wyche Ridge, where the Worcestershire side is all BWs, the Herefordshire side has no ROWs despite seemingly identical tracks, including a couple of BWs which terminate at the border, so I reckon it's sensible to consider the lot to actually be BWs).
someone who had an exceedingly uncanny resemblance to Sir Chris Bonnington (down to the berghaus gear), in the end he could see the point that it was hard packed/rock based with very little erosion etc. but then he had to say it was in the park and a FP so couldn't agree with riding it
If it was him, then at the time he was still VP of Friends of the Lake District so probably felt obliged to toe the party line - would be interesting to see if he would comment differently now he's fallen out with them over the zip wire.
Spot what changes..........
As above, anything like that is definitely fair game, without the need for any of the usual pussy-footing around (if you feel the need for any pussy-footing around). It is after all rather unlikely that the BW has incorrectly been classified too high by the parish who that bit is in.
As above, anything like that is definitely fair game, without the need for any of the usual pussy-footing around (if you feel the need for any pussy-footing around). It is after all rather unlikely that the BW has incorrectly been classified too high by the parish who that bit is in.
I've never been accused of Pussy footing around 🙂
Living in the "Duke of Devonshires" land [he has mineral rights on my property 🙁 ] I have lots of conversations with the National Park wardens as to riding all over the moors, last one went something like this.
"Do you know you are not allowed to cycle on here"
"Why"
"Because its a footpath"
"No its not its a track and why cant I ride on it this bit of moor isn't covered by the CROW act"
"Its not ?"
"Nope its covered by a set of By-Laws and it says nothing about cycling, I cant fly a kite, light a fire or carry a catapult"
Out came the mobile their mobile phone
"By the way did you know that having an electronic device capable of playing music, which your phone is, is against the by-laws ?"
Stunned silence for a while
"We will have to check when we get back"
"I suggest you do, and oh by the way the guy whose land you are patrolling set his gamekeepers on walkers who were on his land a while ago did you know that ?"
"Nope"
"Don't know much eh" as we rode off
By the way did you know that having an electronic device capable of playing music, which your phone is, is against the by-laws ?
😆
Dales rider,
Cheers for the OS map. Wonder what the Defintive Map withe council map says. You can raise that anomaly with your ROW team. May well be older higher rights for horses.
I'll ride that BW-FP when I'm up there in 6 weeks or so. A change from the Mastiles loop from Kilnsey.
Friend of mine' s line:
"Do you know this is footpath?"
"Oh really, crazy isn't it?"
I don't. Around here it's just more ammunition to the incoming Nimby's and ramblers who are currently waging war on the 4x4 and crossers. I'd rather not give them cause to turn their vindictiveness on MTBs too. It is immensely frustrating that there are a huge number of footpaths that are easily capable of being a good bridleway, in fact some are better than may bridleways, and that the FC don;t allow access to so many fire trails.
If we were allowed to connect up paths and bridleways more then there would be fewer MTBs on the road to piss of the ramblers as they dive home too. 😀
Nipper99 - MemberIdle John - are you based on Gower? There is a tempting track/fp over Ryer's Down that looks like it needs investigation - you done it by any chance? The only problem i've encountered on Gower was beween Langland and Mumbles wnen some woman with her dog told me to walk back to Mumbles until she was told off by another group of walkers who asked her what harm i was doing to which she didnt have an answer!!!
No, based in lovely Swansea, nearer to Kilvey Hill. (Which I can't complain about! 🙂 )
I haven't ridden the FP on Ryers Down - if I'm down that way I'll use the BW down to the stream - but I know quite a few who do ride it. Not sure how good it is though.
I'll avoid the cliff paths from Caswell to Mumbles unless it's dark. They are too full of the sort of people who can't enjoy a view without having an argument. And lots and lots of dog poo. Although, riding around from Caswell a few weeks ago as the sun set, the view was amazing.
Riding from Hope back to Bamford yesterday with the family we were on a track, metalled in part, hardcore surface otherwise, going slowly up hill. As we passed a lady walking in our direction, very slowly and with plenty of room:
"This isn't a cyclepath"
Me: "OK thanks, have a good day"
"No, you misheard me, this ISN'T a cycle path"
Me: "OK thanks, have a good day"
We continued to ride, with the kids at barely more than walking pace up the hill. The thing was clearly a double track, in use for over a hundred years (the railway bridge was evidence of that), with protected access on foot, but with a forgotten elevated status in history.
I think the lady wanted me to go the long way round on the main road and make the family of four a target for motorists. Quite what any of it had to do with her was beyond me.
Stay polite, it really takes the wind out of their sails. She even stopped another walker to tell him the whole shocking story - "did you hear what he just said to me?" I heard her saying as she went out of earshot. "Have a good day was" would have been as shocking as it got!
I live in the sticks in SW Somerset and the footpaths are so lightly used around my village it's not an issue. In fact I can't recall ever seeing someone coming the other way and I've lived here for 20 years!
The footpath in the field behind my house has never been used. It's kept visible by badgers and cats who patrol along it every night.
I wouldn't ride across a marked footpath if it went straight across a field with crops unless there already was a cleared path.
Bridleways are different. The local horse population rapidly turn them into the Somme during the winter making them impassable on foot or bike.
There's nothing new in that, the old man next door remembers milk being delivered daily by horse and cart using the bridleway network right up to the early 1970s.
I ride where I want generally. I'm pretty much always solo and always show consideration to others (slow down/stop/good manners etc..).
Everyone should share and enjoy the trails! 😀