[Closed] Do some people not suit FS?

Probably more to do with the differences between your bikes than FS in general. What are they?

I don't think it's intrinsically you, but FS need a different riding style and different body language. Otherwise it won't click. If I were you I'd ride the FS exclusively for a while and see if you can figure out what it needs to make it work.

It could also be the setup. Bikes are highly personal things, I make loads of tweaks to my bikes before they are properly sorted, it takes a long time to fine tune.

There are a lot more variables at play with FS bikes, way more so than a HT.

There is a massive difference between a good FS and a crap one. Good shocks that dont bob or suck energy. Good suspension design that works with the bikes geometry/front ring size. The way the geometry changes through the travel. The way the rear works with or against the front suspension.

It's not just a case of buying an expensive light one.
There is also a lot more to set up and play with till you get it feeling right.

Then you can start to use it to your advantage.

Good shocks that dont bob or suck energy. Good suspension design that works with the bikes geometry/front ring size. The way the geometry changes through the travel. The way the rear works with or against the front suspension.

They are all pretty decent these days though.

Think I’m too slow for FS, always impressed by the full sus but hard tails make more sense at my speed

A well set up FS can be faster than a HT, depends on the terrain, distance and a load of other things. Look at the pro XC racers, its rare that they ride HT's now. Only one or two of the races last year did the resort to HT. They were usually the races with lots of climbing and a smoother less technical track.

You can use a FS to make you faster. Take more ambitions lines etc. (Perhaps not a cheap crap one)

FS didn't work for me. Even locked out just couldn't climb well on it. But the icing on the cake was the time wasted in the shed changing bearings. I'm at least as fast on my slack steel HT so that's my jam.

I have a FS and although it is setup well I feel more natural on my ht.Only when I do dh do I prefer my FS dh bike although I have ridden my ht for dh it is brutal. I think it is the feel of a ht I prefer. I can ride both though just feels more natural on a ht.

I really didn't like FS - but that may have been the bikes I had. I was a hard tail fanboi.
I now have a FlareMax and other than not going out in as muddy as f*** as I don't want to bugger the bearings , I would rarely chose to ride a HT.
But then again, I am old.

Overall I'm definitely faster on my FS over any considerable length of ride, you just don't get as fatigued.

A well set up one will climb better than any HT on anything that isn't a fire road IMHO, and that's what lockouts are for anyway. As soon as it gets rooty or rocky a FS is a no brainer.

I doubt anyone is actually faster overall on a HT on a normal kind of mixed terrain ride, it probably just feels faster.

I don't know about suiting FS but highly skilled individuals like myself don't need it. 🙂

I doubt anyone is actually faster overall on a HT on a normal kind of mixed terrain ride, it probably just feels faster.

But that's the thing: unless you're racing, the feeling of speed or whatever is arguably more important than the actual speed. Plus my experience is that modern full sussers are so capable that when you crash, you crash very hard and very fast.

Mostly atm I'm riding a plus-sized hardtail, which seems to sit somewhere in the middle ground.

But that’s the thing: unless you’re racing, the feeling of speed or whatever is arguably more important than the actual speed. Plus my experience is that modern full sussers are so capable that when you crash, you crash very hard and very fast.

Kinda agree with this.

I had a heavily upgraded Pitch for a few years (Lyric RC2's, tuned shock, upgraded everything) , it was an utter pig uphill but downhill was just insane. I think I'm quick enough on the HT, and in reality only a few seconds a minute slower. But that extra ~10% makes it a whole new ballgame, you don't have to try and jump tabletops anymore and not clatter the rear wheel on the top too hard, you have to try and land it before the slope runs out! Rough bits you pick your way through on the HT just disappear leaving you with too much speed for the next feature you've never even thought of as being a challenge, etc.

It was great, but kinda like e-bikes, there's no more challenge, you just go faster. And the reality of riding with other people is you're riding at someone else pace most of the time anyway so it's more a case of maximizing the fun at a given speed.

Also it was heavy, too small and didn't really pedal uphill very well.

Good point about the speed thing when crashing. Taking it to an extream a fully ridgid, steep HA, narrow bar bike will make tow paths feel like Fort Bill DH 🙂

But that’s the thing: unless you’re racing, the feeling of speed or whatever is arguably more important than the actual speed.

Well it depends on the trail I think. If something's really rocky, then bumping your way down it might be the limit of your speed but personally it's not fun for me. Enough suspension travel and you can go fast enough to start carving corners and having to lean the bike over and all, which I really enjoy doing. Of course there's plenty of riding in Britain (like where TINAS lives) where it's just not that rocky.

Think I’m too slow for FS, always impressed by the full sus but hard tails make more sense at my speed

This is me too - I think it's more fun (feeling like you're) riding something at the very limit than not being good or brave enough to get the most out of something waaaaaay more capable.

I think it depends what you want out of the riding. If you forget the XC speed, or the uphill speed, then i'm all into the FS idea... But if you want speed and weight (or lack of it) then a super HT. But for me, the FS gives WAY more confidence on the downhill, way way more...

Of course there’s plenty of riding in Britain (like where TINAS lives) where it’s just not that rocky.

True, but I suspect even Swinley would be quicker on a nice light FS bike (Epic, Anthem, Supercaliber) than the equivalent hard tail. Things like Red15 where the rough bit in the middle really robs you of speed and you wish for more travel might only add upto a few seconds here and there, but longer bits like Sticker, tank traps and the mid section of seagull are all still rough enough that you're battling to maintain momentum.

I've had stacks of bikes over the years - for a long time I flitted between hardtails and suspension frames, one extreme to the other.

What I eventually realised was that a shorter travel suspension frame was actually the sweet spot - previously I'd been going for longer travel bikes.

Nowadays, the proliferation of big wheeled, but short to mid travel bike, with low-ish weight but sorted geometry kind of confirms this - for 'proper' mtb, I think its the sweet spot for most people.

Its a lot more involved though to get your setup right - which I think is where many people fall down. Still see loads of people out on bikes with rear shock bottomed out or pumped up rock hard, no rebound damping etc.

Well it depends on the trail I think. If something’s really rocky, then bumping your way down it might be the limit of your speed but personally it’s not fun for me.

Well, the last time I looked, the Peak District was quite rocky. Like I said above, I find 650b+ a good sort of compromise / happy medium. Basically it's a big chunk of subjective: I like hardtails, but equally I get that other people are happier on full suspension. It's all just people messing about on bikes 🙂

ps: I liked my old Blur 4X a lot though. And if I could afford it, I'd have a FlareMAX tomorrow.

The thing with full suspension , irrespective of whether or not it's faster than a HT is that you can do long rides without getting as beaten up so it just makes it more enjoyable and you can recover more quickly and do it again tomorrow .It does however demand a slightly different riding style . Also you have to know how to set them up .

Do some people not suit FS?

Roadies?

The whole of swinley can be ridden on a Burley ht. A few bits are a bit rattled though but it is fun.

The whole of swinley can be ridden on a Burley ht. A few bits are a bit rattled though but it is fun. You need to avoid casing the jumps though

The whole of swinley can be ridden on a Burley ht. A few bits are a bit rattled though but it is fun.

Kind of a pointless interjection that, the Ten under the Ben course at FW can be ridden on a drop bar gravel/ CX bike, but it will beat the crap out of you.

Possibly some people don't suit FS, and I know some trail features can be a bit trickier with FS (that's why trials riders use rigids), but a lot comes down to the individual bike and setup. Although I like bikes I don't really like changing bike without a good reason to avoid having to spend the time/effort to get the setup just right.

Sometimes just riding the FS only until you're used to it is the only way to get used to it. It will respond differently and that can put you at a disadvantage sometimes, particularly if you're used to a rigid or HT.

True, but I suspect even Swinley would be quicker on a nice light FS bike (Epic, Anthem, Supercaliber) than the equivalent hard tail.

To be honest I'd have said the same but it's not my subjective experience. I'm not rocking a superlight XC full suss or that fit but riding my 100mm XC HT I've been pretty surprised how little if any difference it makes on the bits I'd have expected it.

I've not bothered timing it (it's not that important to me) but I guess what I mean is I don't find I'm riding any slower really going downhill but the light HT feels noticeably faster on climbs and fireroad.

What I do find though is at my over 50 age is the FS is just way less strain on joints and such the next day.

I used to be a die-hard hardtail rider. Rigid, ss even. Got older, more injured, less time to ride. Now the full suss gives me a load of fun with a bit less impact overall, unless I crash.

What I was getting at is swinley on a ht does not beat you up at all and is perfectly suited to it. Geez.

I think Swinley is one of the worst places ever for a hardtail. I love my hardtail on steep, rough, rocky trails, or swoopy dirt singletrack. But armoured berms on trails so flat that you’re pedalling much of the time, so eventually you have to give up and sit down and then get shaken to bits, no thank you.

Nowadays I have a 150mm super slack hardtail and a 160/150mm e-full-sus. I’d like a short travel 29er like the new Banshee Phantom or a FlareMAX but I struggle enough with swapping between two bikes!

I am genuinely faster according to Strava on my SolarisMAX with 140mm 36 Trace fork than i was on a 140mm Kona FS carbon trail bike in rocky rooty enduro stuff. Only by a sliver, but it smashes through things nicely if i let the back wheel do its own thing.

When it comes to climbing, technical, steep gravel, roots, rocks, whatever, the hardtail is light years ahead.

I’m seriously considering taking my hardtail on my next uplift day because the speeds that are possible on gnarly trails are a fair bit slower than with the bigger wheels, 150mm of rear suspension, an even bigger better fork and the added stability of the battery and motor weight on my Levo - and it’s still fun, just not as fast, and thus actually less scary.

I would struggle to say one was better than the other, but if I’m doing a long day, I’d rather be on a fs bike, I don’t get the lower back lockup after it.
A ht is just as much fun, but my back doesn’t thank me for it.

I love my HT (Bird Zero). It feels way more confident than my Giant Trance. I can just plough into turns off the brakes that would have me panic-braking on the FS. I’m certain that this is down to the difference in geometry. The HT is quite modern in a long/low/slack way (although not crazy long), the FS is a little dated (geo circa 2014). I’m interested to see what changes when I get round to upgrading the FS to something more modern.

I have a stanton slackline and a bronson. Live in the peaks, I like the HT for a couple of hours but get beaten up if any longer and I would never take it to scotland or the alps. Unless it's super smooth I am nowhere near as quick on the ht.

modern full sussers are so capable that when you crash, you crash very hard and very fast.

the flip side of this is of course, the full suss will allow you to "get away" with more stuff than the HT will.

I think there are places that are better suited to a HT. I used to ride in the Chilterns, and that really doesn't need a full suss, and the soil conditions there over winter make a FS such a chore to ride and clean afterward. Now I'm up in Calderdale, and I soon swapped my HT for a FS!

I’ve tried full sus several times now and always end up selling them. Last one was a Flare. I’ve come to the conclusion that I simply prefer hardtails. The way they look, the way they ride, the fact you have to pick lines with more care. Not that full sus doesn’t suit me, more that I don’t like the ride. Different strokes and all that.

I’m 43 and spend most of my time riding the peak, Macc Forest, Marple and surrounding areas. Never feel too beat up or like I need more travel or rear suspension. Had a Trek Fuel 29er for a while and it just killed the excitement and made everything easy to ride. For me personally that’s just not fun. It was faster on the gnarly stuff, but didn’t feel it. Hardtails can feel pants shittingly fast when you’re only going about 18mph on a good downhill stretch.