[Closed] Do I need 160mm of travel?

Freeride bike is just the old-fashioned word for a 180mm travel mini-dh/Alps bike I suppose.

Usually 180mm travel both ends, single crown fork - sometimes but not always lighter than a DH bike, geometry usually making it a fair bit easier to pedal up fire roads or linking resorts in the Alps.

Here's the one I was riding, sort of sold now - but just to give you an idea what you can get for your money...
http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1878298/

jambalaya - Member

One final,word, spend £200 with @jedi or Nathan at UK Bike Skills, you'll get far more out of that than switching the bike and domit before you go to the Alps.

That's already on the to-do list, just waiting for a free weekend and some decent weather. 🙂

[img] [/img]
When I was younger this was free ride

now it's just mincing down a few jumps 😉

chakaping - Member

Freeride bike is just the old-fashioned word for a 180mm travel mini-dh/Alps bike I suppose.

Usually 180mm travel both ends, single crown fork - sometimes but not always lighter than a DH bike, geometry usually making it a fair bit easier to pedal up fire roads or linking resorts in the Alps.

Yah, practically nobody bought a Voltage or a Slopestyle to actually do freeride or slopestyle, they're just also good "mini dh" bikes

Do you need it - probably not.

I've recently sold my 160mm travel bike for a hardtail! I bought the Rune when I was doing a few uplift days, spending time at the local DH tracks as well as general trail riding. I only had one bike at the time and this seemed to cover all of the bases.

The lure of N+1 took hold and I ended up with a steel hardtail that I much preferred on my local trails - it was just more fun. The Rune was ace on bigger, steeper trails but with a new baby I just wasn't getting the chance to ride that sort of stuff. Both bikes went and I now have a 140mm Ti hardtail as my only bike. I don't feel like I've lost out - I'm still more or less where I was when compared to others that I ride with.

The Rune did climb amazingly well for a 160mm bike and was pretty darn slack. It handled the likes of Antur really well and was way more competent than I am on a bike. Personally, I'd focus more on your regular riding than the odd trip away (and how you actually ride - I think I thought I rode harder stuff than I actually do).

The t130 has really good geometry. If someone made a 130mm travel bike with a 140mm Pike, and a 65 degree head angle, long reach, low Bb, and steep seat angle, I'd be all over it. And everyone else should be too.

Isn't this more or less the Spitfire?

That's already on the to-do list, just waiting for a free weekend and some decent weather.

Bear in mind they're usually booked up months ahead (and I think they only coach Mon-Sat).

I've only briefly ridden my new hardtail but it feels much more like my full-sus than the hardtail it replaced. Why? Geometry! On paper it's ridiculously slack and low (it's a Bird Zero AM with -2 deg headset and 130mm fork) but full-sus bikes get lower and usually slacker once you're on them, whilst hardtails drop only a ittle and steepen a degree or two (depending on how hard you run the fork).

So it's zero travel at the back (hence the name), 130mm at the front and geometry when riding is similar to the latest long & low 6" bikes on the market (e.g. ~65.5 deg HA, ~300mm BB, ~460mm reach). Having a great fork makes a big difference too.

I'm not suggesting you get a hardtail instead of a full-sus but I do think that geometry far trumps amount of travel. And I think quality of suspension (damping, spring curve and resistance to unwanted flex) matters more than the amount of travel.

The t130 has really good geometry. If someone made a 130mm travel bike with a 140mm Pike, and a 65 degree head angle, long reach, low Bb, and steep seat angle, I'd be all over it. And everyone else should be too.

[i]Isn't this more or less the Spitfire?[/i]

Spitfire is 140 rear and most riders are running 150 or 160 up front - but you could certainly use a 140mm Pike with a -2 deg Works headset, which would lower the BB further, lengthen the reach, steepen the seat angle and take the static head angle down to 65 deg.

chiefgrooveguru - Member

but you could certainly use a 140mm Pike with a -2 deg Works headset, which would lower the BB further, lengthen the reach

-2 headset will be pretty reach neutral I think, I suspect it'll probably slightly reduce it overall- the headset itself moves the steerer backwards slightly and the slacker steerer angle also reduces reach. But the changes in angles will lower the front slightly which increases reach. but all in all, not very big deal

Good point! Taking 20mm off the A-C height would add about 10mm to the reach, whilst slackening the head tube -2 deg would add another 5mm - if the centre of the steerer stayed in the same place within the top of the head tube, which it doesn't, it moves rearwards. However it can only move rearwards by up to 8mm or the steerer tube would hit the inside of the head tube.

So a -2 deg headset on its own would shorten your reach fractionally (and a bit more if you run more spacers under the stem) but a shorter fork would more than compensate for that.

So geometry is the key, first point (with quality suspenders shortly thereafter).

One more question if I may please, the Whyte website says the Yari has the following head angle "67.0+0/-1" - does that mean the HA is variable or something?

I would always go 160mm if you plan the uplift days.

Have you considered getting the suspension tuned?

IF you spend most of your time on tame trails it makes sense to have a firm set up with blow through for crazy days.

Then when you are off to the Alps for a concentrated get the bike tuned to suit.

Once you get to know your local suspension guy it will become a much less costly exercise.

I reckon that if you are not racing then you'd have more fun on a shorter travel bike. It will be more lively/poppy.

Long travel bikes are great if speed is an important factor (racing) and you need to smash through stuff.

I'm in the process of looking at a shorter travel bike after demoing a 5010 at the weekend and having a blast on it.

I have an enduro 29er for racing and it's an incredible bike for going fast on, but for shits and giggles, shorter travel bikes are a blast.

Rickon is right about geometry (and fit) being the number one factor.

The downsides of a 160mm bike get smaller and smaller every year.

There's really not that much difference weight wise between a 1x 130/140 bike with Pikes and a 160 bike with same. They tend to not built up with much the same parts, and the angles aren't that different either.

Long travel bikes are great if speed is an important factor (racing) and you need to smash through

I think it varies from track to track and rider to rider - just two examples, Joe Barnes swaps between 140 and 160mm and Jared Graves between 127 and 152mm for racing the EWS. However both run 160mm (or possibly longer) forks.

I'm looking if there is a viable 180mm single crown fork option for my next AM bike!

Decision made, going for the Whyte. 🙂

Hmmmm. How much is that £800 meta to buy?

Look at what makes up the majority of your riding, not so much where you are riding. Is gravity taking up the majority of your riding time or are you pedalling? I suspect like most of us you spend more time pedalling so that would dictate my choice for one do it all bike.

Personally I have a 165mm FS, 140mm FS and a Hardtail 29er and while the bigger travel bike is modern and super efficient when pedalling it's still not as quick as the other two options over more flat single track and open trails where continuous pedalling is required to have the most amount of fun. Adding a coil with a switchable firmer second circuit helped but just the overall geometry, suspension curves and wheelbase all contribute to make it less efficient in these scenarios.

For UK riding a modern short travel bike like the Transition Scout or Santa Cruz 5010 v2 would be rarely out of its depth, quick over almost most types of terrain and great fun to ride. Dark horses for me would be the Trek Remedy 29er and Santa Cruz Tallboy v2 if the update rumours of its geometry and travel are true.

Transition Scout or Santa Cruz 5010 v2

geometry is more important than travel

mikeep - Member

I reckon that if you are not racing then you'd have more fun on a shorter travel bike. It will be more lively/poppy.

Can be but even then not necessarily... Like, ride an Orange Five 29, long travel (*) and clownwheels but it's full of snap and pop. (No crackle though). Some few big bikes manage to be both as capable as a long travel bike needs to be, and still involving and reactive and all that.

(* it's not a 160mm bike but it's in their class or maybe above)

ride an Orange Five 29, long travel (*) and clownwheels but it's full of snap and pop.

LOL 🙂

I have, it wasn't.

What shock was in it? Should possibly have added to that; I've ridden 2 and the tunes were different, the second one was pretty soggy. But with the right shock/tune, it's great.

maxtorque - Member
I'm looking if there is a viable 180mm single crown fork option for my next AM bike!

Lyrik!

Something I asked earlier but think got missed in the numerous responses was that the Whyte website says the Yari has the following head angle [b]"67.0+0/-1"[/b] - does that mean the HA is variable or something? 🙂

Maybe it refers to the fact that the head angle could change depending on which build you go for ie depending on which fork is fitted - different axle to crown lengths?

Ask Whyte for a definitive answer.

wilko1999 - Member

Maybe it refers to the fact that the head angle could change depending on which build you go for ie depending on which fork is fitted - different axle to crown lengths?

Could be. I think Whyte are still selling the T-130S with RS Revelations (though I'd guess they'll stop making that spec soon).

chakaping - Member

Ask Whyte for a definitive answer.

Just waiting for a response, sadly I'm too impatient at times, hence asking the forum. 🙂

And I though I was indecisive when it came to buying a bike for the Surrey Hills 😉

Perhaps you should wait for either the Freeborn (on Pitch) or the Cycle Works (Holmbury) days and get a really good feel for different bikes on the trails that you ride?

Worked for me - found I hated some bikes that got great reviews (including for ME, the Whytes) and vice versa. Horses for courses as they say.

Then you only have to decide which shop to support!!

teamhurtmore - Member

And I though I was indecisive when it came to buying a bike for the Surrey Hills 😉

Dude, I've actually been wakened up during the night thinking about this. #someprobsarenicetohave 🙂

teamhurtmore

Perhaps you should wait for either the Freeborn (on Pitch) or the Cycle Works (Holmbury) days and get a really good feel for different bikes on the trails that you ride?

Worked for me - found I hated some bikes that got great reviews (including for ME, the Whytes) and vice versa. Horses for courses as they say.

Then you only have to decide which shop to support!!

Never heard of the Cycleworks or Freeborn days. I only started riding the SH 18 months ago so missed them last year. Thanks for the tip though. 🙂

chakaping - Member

Ask Whyte for a definitive answer.

Definitive answer is:

"that it is the tolerance to which the frame head angle is made to".... I'm a bit too thick to work what that actually means. 😀

That was my first thought before I wrote the reply about the different axle to crown lengths. So basically they state it will be absolutely no greater than 67 degrees but could be as low as 66 degrees, depending on manufacturing variance

They're just being more honest than other manufacturers about it I guess?

Or someone has challenged them over a head angle in the past.

Very brief update. Went into my LBS on Saturday to look at a Whyte T-130s Yari. Looks absolutely stunning in the flesh and, IMO, a quality piece of kit. Everything just feels right.

The only fly in the ointment - the shop also had a G-160 for the same price so I'm going large on this occasion. 🙂