We've got the Wiggle New Forest sportive happening up the road this weekend. Its a great event which takes cyclists through quiet lanes around the forest. However the anti-cycling lobby have a load voice (and persons in prominent positions) locally, and every year it gets a right lambasting in the press.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-22081407 ]BBC report here[/url]
This years its being described as causing a 'no-go zone for other forest users',
Dr Tony Hockley, of the New Forest Equestrian Association (NFEA), said there was "immense risk" to horses and riders, especially when cyclists came up fast and silently from behind
And now New Forest East MP Julian Lewis, has written to transport minister Norman Baker calling for such events to be subject to the same licensing regulations as road races and time trial events currently are. So this could affect all similar events to be crippled by policing limitations and costs, insurance costs etc - making them less viable to run.
Talk about blatant Nimbyism. He won't be getting my vote (like he ever did). In fact I feel a letter coming on.
Does this happen elsewhere too? Or is it just a New Forest reaction?
came up fast and silently from behind
s****s.
On a more serious note, get a pro campaign going, invite the MP to the event.
Sponsored walks and the sort bugger up trails for decent riding, round here Sunday's are a write off for walking groups of 40+ bimbling oaps who on a track where 2 cars can pass don't/won't make space for a bike, but so be it, its all just part of getting along.
Don't worry, I'm sure the New Forest's reputation as a hotbed of whinging has already made it to Westminster.
There are many more cyclists who vote than New Forest locals - and they will live longer.
Is it really any different to any other events, including mtb? People get inconvenienced and my personal opinion is that events should not allow so many participants.
The New Forest though? Nuff said after the ghastly horse riders we encountered a few years ago!
I'm signed up for the October one. Will the locals have organised a torch wielding mob by then?
I'm signed up for the October one. Will the locals have organised a torch wielding mob by then?
Don't worry MW, I'm a local too. I'll fill up with cider and douse their flaming torches 😀
Not helped by the local rags anti-bike stance either.
Posters up in pubs locally encouraging locals to photograph and shop riders they consider to be riding dangerously to the police.
If 2,000 riders on 2 days doing a 'race but not really using a legal loophole' is unreasonably compromising safe access and enjoyment for others, they have a right to whinge.
So, does it?
Sportives? Is that slightly disguised road races? It would be better to run them on closed roads but I'm guessing the locals would object more
Most of the poor cycling i see in the forest is from families in summer taking up half the road wobbling about everywhere.
Most issues i've had are from impatient motorists trying got squeeze by you to be 5 seconds earlier to their next cucumber sandwich party.
Not easy being a cyclist sometimes, these are commercial events though, perhaps there should be some inclusion of locals or something in it for them?
Not sure what, my imagination is on a go slow.
I live on the London2Brighton route and last year there was a bit in our local paper from someone in the next village bitching and moaning about the disruption. I think/hope she was ignored/buried due to her being new/an idiot.
..and last time I did said ride, a load of us got shouted at by a moose because we were disrupting her "shopping day" 🙄
To be fair i think the wiggle events should be limited to one day not two as a compromise, but then we have to queue up all over the place for a whole week of the New Forest Show and i can't imagine many objections come in for that from the curtain twitchers.
..and last time I did said ride, a load of us got shouted at by a moose because we were disrupting her "shopping day"
A mate did it and had the idea that he would do it next time with a cardboard cut out bike as it might actually be faster walking.
we've got the tour de france coming our way next year and already the local plod and councillors are complaining about it.
I'm not local but it does sound a bit pathetic.
As a country we''re forever being told that we're all fat, inactive and are going to die early because of obesity etc. But when people try and put events on, they come up against opposition. Surely after the cycling success we had last year as a nation, increased participation in such stuff should be encouraged?
Those objecting, are totally ignoring the benefits of all the people there staying in b&b's, eating out etc.
An immense risk? ok, lets see the figures. I'm pretty sure that crashing into a horse the bike rider is going to come of worse than a ton of beefburgers! Also, they complain that motor bikes etc are "too noisey" for the countryside, and now MTB's are too quiet? Perhaps if you had proper control of an animal that gets spooked and throws it's rider into a hedge because it caught a glimse of a plastic bag it didn't like the look of!
Lets just get along shall we, there's plenty of space still for everyone, we done need ridiculous histrionics based on no real facts meaning yet more paper work, red tape and costs etc!
It's a charity bimble with friends.A mate did it and had the idea that he would do it next time with a cardboard cut out bike as it might actually be faster walking.
I don't get all lyra'd up, although I may still punch the air when I pwn the hills 😆
I suspect if it was called a 'Sky Ride' and had Brad and Cav leading it round the locals would fall over themselves with fawning.
I did the mtb one, frankly it wouldn't have been a challenge on my cross bike so I won't go back but there's normally so many cyuclists bimbling about in the summer that even a thousand more for a few hours one mornign does seem not much to make a fuss about.
Ahhhh the New Forest.
Happy memories of getting chased by 'marshalls' around the cheeky trails, from the day the family moved there, to the day I moved out of home (folks still live there)
rusty trowel - Member
Not helped by the local rags anti-bike stance either.
Posters up in pubs locally encouraging locals to photograph and shop riders they consider to be riding dangerously to the police.
Rusty- where have you seen this?
Was in a road race once where we came round a bend face to face with 3 horses,one bolted and many nerves were frayed*. The race was neutralised until horse, rider, and racers were reunited into their appropriate groups. It is big ask to put 2000 riders which equates to a near constant stream of riders onto the public highway. At least with a RR the breakaway or 2 and peloton (perhaps 120 riders) pass without a mass of disruption. I would argue that there is greater impact by a sportive, so yes they should have to tick the right boxes to ensure safety of riders and the general pulic.
Cost is a tricky one, I know that these sportives cost a great deal more than your average RR, I would think that Sportives are a whole lot more profitable than BC races, hence why very few RRs are attracting these corporate sponsors/organisers. If anyone can afford policing costs it would be Wiggle, not the small local road club of 30 riders who decide to put on a race on their local roads.
*I am in danger of sounding a bit anti-bike here. I do have my opinion on what should happen to horse riders who are unable to control their animal while surrounded by vehicles who are legitimately using a public highway/bridle way. But I don't think I can repeat it here.
I'm an NF local and not seen anything, only the horse riders getting uppity so no need to worry!
It's 2000 riders over 2 days so 1000/day and there's 3 different routes and a 2 hour window for starts. I can see you get groups forming but I don't think it's like a peleton going past for 5 hours.
Looking at the route map, it looks like it will be coming right past my house.
Might have to nip out early and swap a few signs around. 😉
I've also got some rotten fruit that I need to get rid of. 🙂
I've never got my head round the whole sportive thing. Why would you pay good money to ride on public roads, crammed in with 100s of other people. Each to their own.
However, as a "local" I dont have a problem with this, after all it's only a couple of days a year, the roads will still be open, it brings in revenue and might inspire others to get out and ride. But 2000 does seem like a lot of participants on some of the more narrow roads.
It's amazing how sportive's, cycle races, triathlons and running races are welcomed by towns and villages here in Germany. They are very much seen as part of the process of promoting the area and bringing in people to spend money with local businesses.
And now New Forest East MP Julian Lewis, has written to transport minister Norman Baker calling for such events to be subject to the same licensing regulations as road races and time trial events currently are.
Maybe cyclists should start writing to the MP and minister pointing out how great the Olympic legacy (so trumpeted by their party*) can be demonstrated by increased participation in such events, and how exercise increases health and happiness, which is surely a worthy political goal.
*I just assume that the MP for the New Forest would be a tory.
Yes, it will bunch up and there will be gaps, but the flow of traffic will surely be more impacted upon, perhaps even more so by the choice of 3 routes as it becomes harder for drivers to find an alternative route.
Again, I don't mean to sound completely anti-bike, I think this type of mass - appeal event are important for the cycling community, I just don't want to see us alienated from the wider public due to what can be seen as quite selfish behaviour ( I gave up training rides with my local road club as many of them were keen to keep the 2-abreast through and off going despite riding at times on roads which were single-carriageway with blind crests, corners and mud to contend with, not my idea of fun with farm traffic about).
[i]Events of this size on public roads clearly need some form of regulation and/or licensing[/i]
Has he ever seen the queues of cars on the roads into Lyndhurst when there's a sunny Sunday or a big event at Bauelieu? No talk of regulating that sort of traffic?
really ? I've never been chased 🙁Happy memories of getting chased by 'marshalls' around the cheeky trails, from the day the family moved there, to the day I moved out of home (folks still live there)
I did my bit on Monday - asked 2 horsey groups well in advance of overtaking whether their horses were OK with bikes. Meant I had to slow down marginally but one of them did have a nice bum (the horse that is, not the tubby biffers on top 😉 )
[img][url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8538/8636651607_e0d66e5a26.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikes_and_stuff/8636651607/ ]new[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/bikes_and_stuff/ ]bmclynskey1[/url], on Flickr[/img]
slightly ironically, they promote bike rides on their site;
[url= http://www.vizzitnewforest.com/directory/events/charity_bike_rides.html ]http://www.vizzitnewforest.com/directory/events/charity_bike_rides.html[/url]
6000 people on an event on open roads? Sounds like a bad idea really, They can close them for marathons and fun runs so why not bike races (a sportive is a race)
Think i'll ride in the forest Friday and Monday instead this weekend, less traffic 🙂 Purbecks at the weekend, it'll be empty on the roads there.
I thought not. Insurance 'n all that....(a sportive is a race)
I'm surprised they don't need to tick some sort of box to get the ok to run the event. Doing so would not definitely mean vast costs with police etc (no police presence at any time trial I've even been too). Just a useful health check (maybe via British Cycling) that the event is being run with safety and continued acceptance being prioritised over making a fast buck. An event with 600-700 riders might create minimal negative press locally and be welcomed back year after year but only make mediocre profits. Organisers unchecked might well put 2000 on the same route to maximise profits even if it does royally piss off the locals. Jam today and all that.
but the flow of traffic will surely be more impacted upon, perhaps even more so by the choice of 3 routes as it becomes harder for drivers to find an alternative route.
Oh dear. What a shame. Perhaps people in cars might have to be a bit patient in their bid to get to the back of the next queue.
lilchris - Member
(a sportive is a race)
I thought not. Insurance 'n all that....
semantics
It's a bunch of people riding a course who get a time and results are printed in order of fastest to slowest. It's a race if it wasn't there would be tea and cake stops every 10km.
In general there is angry whinge bag *******s and there is genuine concern. If there are issues they need addressed locally by the organiseers rather than a slanging match. The key to running events is local support.
It's a race if it wasn't there would be tea and cake stops every 10km.
To be fair - the one's I've done did have tea and cake stops - but only every 30-40km or so.
An event with 600-700 riders might create minimal negative press locally and be welcomed back year after year but only mediocre profits. Organisers unchecked might well put 2000 on the same route to maximise profits even if it does royally piss off the locals.
Anywhere else and you might have a point.
This is the New Forest though. The nimbyest place in the universe.
If I see one of those posters in my village, I'll be sure to start taking photographs of all the cars that speed through at 50-60mph in a 30mph limit.
Then again, I might just get a life and enjoy riding my bike.
It's laughable how all these curtain twitchers get so uppity about a few cyclists. They really need to get out more. But in some ways I'm glad they don't.
Local support?
No chance of that, this is the latest in a long running saga. Move to a beautiful area then expect to have it to yourself all year.
Don't even talk about off road access, horse riders can churn the place up as much as they like, but put a wheel off piste and they will spout about how the Royals gave them sole rights hundreds of years ago....er yeah, before bikes were invented.
That poster needs a facepalm picture.
I've never done one, so didin't know, but figured it was like track days in removing the competitive edge.
ie. no stopwatches or racing others.
There's a difference between someone orgainsing a race, and people racing one another on a "event", shirly?
just sent that vizzit lot a message via their site.
[i]I'm a fairly regular visit to the New Forest for weekend camping.
I would say that my family and I typically spend £300 over the course of a visit.
We always bring bicycles and make use of both the off road and on road cycling opportunities.
I have become aware that there appears to be a resentment of cyclists using the local area and that, currently, this is focused on (but not limited to) the Wiggle organised sportives.
Given your apparent support of cycling within the Forest being further restricted I wondered how you can reconcile that with the amount of income that it brings to the area from families such as mine. Surely as a company that exists to promote the area you would be keen to increase visitor numbers, not discourage them.
My biggest problems to date have always been the amount of car traffic going through Lyndhurst (almost to the point of stopping us visiting the area at all) - it would seem to focus your efforts on addressing this rather than attack cyclists?
Thanks[/i]
Clearly the nimbiest members of the community will have incomes that aren't reliant on tourist traffic but there's clear economic benefit from cycling there that needs to be recognised.
but figured it was like track days in removing the competitive edge.
ie. no stopwatches or racing others.
There's a difference between someone orgainsing a race, and people racing one another on a "event", shirly?
Stop calling me Shirly....
The difference is in a race there would probably be less people and a rolling road closure to keep the course clear, in this event there will be people racing (yes there will be) and those plodding along on open roads. Still a massive number of extra riders on the roads, not saying they shouldn't be there but if they are getting locals backs up them time to sort it out not just plough on
Where do they get the estimate of 6000 from? Wiggle has the maximum number of places listed as 1,500 which I assume is a per day figure.
I'd never thought of it as a race. I thought it was an easy way to ride in an area where i otherwise wouldn't with the minimum of planning effort required. other people may be racing, I won't.
There are two of us doing the ride, but we were going to rent a place for twelve and make a bit of a family long weekend of it. But this sort of thing puts me right off that idea, seriously considering just driving down and back on the day instead.
WCA and PeterPoddy would do an excellent job of PR. 😉
To be fair, when I helped organise running club events we used to get flak from locals who were unable to get off their driveway. Nearby houses all got leafleted to warn them but it also helped that a considerable amount of money went to charity.
I still maintain that these events are too big.
wrongand results are printed in order of fastest to slowest
wrongIt's a race if it wasn't there would be tea and cake stops
maybe - I've not seen objections to other sportivesthe New Forest though. The nimbyest place in the universe
asterix - Member
and results are printed in order of fastest to slowest
wrong
It's a race if it wasn't there would be tea and cake stops
wrong
It's how the ones I have done have been organised... if its a pootle then no timing at all.
maybe - I've not seen objections to other sportives
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/may/17/cycle-race-etape-caledonia-protest ]apart from this one of course...[/url]
Though even there the reports call this etape a "race" with a winner.
It amazes me you can legally hold a huge road races on open roads (in a good way).
Don't even talk about off road access,
The verderers and the forestry commision had a falling out about this issue. Long story short, Forestry commision wanted to extended the off road network, verderers said "no", forestry commision said "up yours then". Since its the forestry commision that polices the forest, the no off road rule no longer enforced by the forestry commision.
Forest local too, most of the objections to people using the forest seem to come from those that have just moved there.
This is what I was meaning.I'd never thought of it as a race. I thought it was an easy way to ride in an area where i otherwise wouldn't with the minimum of planning effort required. other people may be racing, I won't.
By puting in small print to deter "racing", they don't have to pay for insurance to cover racing along with disclaimers as per motorsport informing you you will almost certainly die.
[i]Since its the forestry commision that polices the forest, the no off road rule no longer enforced by the forestry commision.[/i]
Do the verderers have any legal powers beyond 'I say old chap you really shouldn't be here you know!' ?
"most of the objections to people using the forest seem to come from those that have just moved there".
...apart from the miserable sod from Sway sitting next to me at work as i type this..
I do quite a few sportives but actually I think a licence for an event with over say 1000 riders is probably a wise idea. They can be pretty disruptive and with a fair few idiots on them dropping litter or riding like they have sole use of the road can leave a bad impression on locals. Given sportives are, in the main, run to profit the organiser then that should come with more responsibility. The trouble is ofc it would be open to abuse (local councillor gets held up behind a cyclist and ends up denying an event a licence through personal bias etc.).
British cycling are very clear about results
4.8 Publication of 'Result'
The only "result" issued shall be a list of riders who have completed the route within the specified time. Organisers must not publish a list of riders by finishing times or indicate the order in which riders finished. The appropriate format is alphabetical name order. Electronic timing facilities are to enable riders to compare their times rather than provide a finishing order; they provide a degree of safety as well since it allows the organiser to easily count the riders in and out.
The awarding of prizes cannot be given on placings. The use of a podium would indicate that the event was of a competitive nature, so should not be used
I did this event a couple of times in the last few years and agree it is too big.
One day would be sufficient and maybe a few less riders.
Also seen a fair bit of litter (gel wrappers etc) dropped by riders.
This would be certainly lessened if they didn't dish out a bag full of them to most starters before the event. There are food stops with bins, if the food isn't enough, at least shove the wrappers in your pockets.
No doubt there is probably some stupid riding done by some Strava boys pinning it trying to get a time in, but as a whole most riding i've seen has been reasonably sensible.
Tricky one i suppose, it's the whole discouraging sport and exercise side of the complaints that bug me, and if you've had the pleasure of going within 10 miles of Lyndhurst during the summer, a few bikes are the least of their traffic problems.
Do the verderers have any legal powers beyond 'I say old chap you really shouldn't be here you know!' ?
In truth i don't know, i seem to recall there being a fine of something like £500, but i don't know of anyone that has had it issued to them. Nor am i aware of any rangers that have issued it, my wife certainly didn't when she worked as a ranger.
My bike commute to and from work includes part of this ride (near Brockenhurst).
I support the idea of more cycling, only thing that pi$$es me of is the huge amount of gel wrappers that appear that weekend. If you can carry it halfway round, don't bloody drop it after you use it! And there seem to be shed loads within 5 miles of the finish, where it is too late to have a major effect....
But the local hysteria/vitriol amazes me, when every day riding too and from work someone will usually drive too close/ force me off the road/ swear at me... Maybe I should take photos?
The route last year came straight past my house as do several other sportives, we're not near the start admittedly but there was a steady trickle of riders for a few hours, no bother at all.
NIMBY's with nothing better to do than try to ruin others enjoyment for no real reason, they're just making stuff up to invent a reason to stop it. It's just sad!
Rusty where'd you see the poster, the pub in Sway?
We've been in there plenty of times over the years on night rides, clearly off road and never had any bother
NF local also. Never had any issues riding off road cheeky trails.
A few surprised looks perhaps but everyone seems happy enough!
It's 2000 riders over 2 days so 1000/day and there's 3 different routes and a 2 hour window for starts. I can see you get groups forming but I don't think it's like a peleton going past for 5 hours.
Not that big, really - but running over two days with staggered starts? Seems almost designed to piss off the locals.
I do quite a few Spanish sportives, they're always well supported and if there's any local opposition I've yet to hear of it. They're a lot bigger than this event, too - the one I'm doing in July has 9000 riders... But it kicks off at 8am, with rolling road closures, and no pretend-this-isn't-a-race crap.
I don't understand why rolling road closures would be less impacting than some dispersed cyclists on the roads after staggered starts.
agree'd it doesn't sound like a massive event, the dragon ride has 4500 riders all riding the same day.
@waswas - great response to those fools, I am all over them on twitter!
Should be promoting the area
I don't understand why rolling road closures would be less impacting than some dispersed cyclists on the roads after staggered starts.
Basically you can advertise the times and possible alternative routes, and you don't get people stuck in a car behind one group of cyclists after another, and getting all worked up about it.
What is it with this country and NIMBYism? Pretty sure if this was most other places in Europe then locals would be out lining the streets cheering on the passing rides, probably making a day of it with beer and bbqs.
Don't know where the posters were, it was brought to my attention a couple of weeks ago.
I'm over in Poole, so not really local, my rides over that way are usually part of loops i do out of here.
Do you think the charity ride that Jens Voight is doing here in 2 weeks or so will raise as many complaints? Paying cyclists set off in groups for him to ride with (and presumably attack each group of MAMILs whilst shouting 'Shut Up Legs' as he catches the group in front) will be bigger bunches for motorists to [s]aim at[/s] drive round and curse
and now MTB's are too quiet?
only allow riders with Hope Hubs ??
Having seen that vizzit site and being an occasional visitor to the areas i'm considering a mail or two to their advertiser wightlink highlighting the campaign to drive tourism away. Given both WL and Red Funnel market to cyclists that may get some traction
I am not a fan of sportives they need to be sanctioned as other events are.I run a time trial and that has enough red tape never mind a road race and all that involves .These only cater for a 100 or so riders not the many hundreds being spoon fed a route at great expense.
Looks like the twitter page has been pulled
I do quite a few Spanish sportives... no pretend-this-isn't-a-race crap.
I imagine there isn't quite so much in the way of red tape crap involved in running something as a race there.
6000 people on an event on open roads? Sounds like a bad idea really, They can close them for marathons and fun runs so why not bike races (a sportive is a race)
It's not 6000, it's about 3500. Over two days, so <2000 per day.
Closed roads - depends, it can cost an astronomical sum of money and you need to weigh up the benefits to the event and the inconvenience to the locals.
And a Sportive is NOT a race. The fact that cyclists on a cycling website are saying this really isn't helpful cos it's one of the things that local NIMBYs trot out on a regular basis to attempt to get the events closed down. The fact that some people try and ride them as fast as possible doesn't make it a race. I walk to the shops as fast as possible but I'm not racing!
The "danger" apsect is pretty laughable given how many of their treasured New Forest ponies die each year after being hit by cars...
Whining shitbags who don't want to share the forest roads.
On a bank holiday 100,000 cars go to the forest, so what is the problem with 2,000 bikes? I don't hear them complaining about the 5 mile traffic jams through lyndhurst.
****s