What an idiot.
Homemade headset press + nicolai argon FR + thinking it would be easy to press a headset in = trouble.
I've managed to get the headset cups half in but completely wonky, now I can't get them in or out. Lesson learnt, I hope the local bike shop can save me!
why didn`t you do one at a time? Try a practise on a POS frame first then move on to the good frames
Well done, spunk 1k or more on a frame, too tight to spend 40 quid on a headset press !
God they're going to laugh at you when you walk out the door.
Sorry.
surely you must have noticed they weren't going in straight??
Can you knock the cups out from the other direction? Don't just wallop it, but gentle and try again one at a time making sure they are going in square.
Did you buy said frame from the aforementioned local bike shop? If not, Nickegg is spot on the money above!
Even if you did, I suspect Nick's got it right anyway! 😉
erm, yeah, thanks for the encouragement. A headset press is going to be bought. Don't care how much they laugh as long as they fix it!
don't see why they wouldn't laugh when I walk in the door either
[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=10223 ]This is what you need.[/url]
Unfortunately, it's out of stock. Prepare to be laughed at.
Take it to a shop and get it done proper.
Should be fine.
Good Luck!
stop. Have a cup of tea. have a ponder. Put the hammer away.
Hot water on the frame will expand it knock the cup straight and carry on - or knock it right out from the inside and start again
Worst comes to teh worst and you have damaged the frame the headset can be fitted with locktite bearing fit or you can use a deep insertion headset. However I bet its fine.
For removal...
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It's fairly normal for the cups to go in a bit wonky before straightening up. I very much doubt you have damaged the frame, but buy the right tools, just makes everything easier.
Should be ok,get them knocked out properly and refit,it will be fine
wahoo! I've got them out!
Now, can anyone recommend me a headset press that isn't park tool expensive?
Kbrembo - I like it.
YOu won't have done much if any damage, I've had them in right wonky in loads of frames. Just smashed them out with some old handlebars
panic over chaps, everything will be o.k.
TJ - I did think about that, I might try freezing the cups next time before starting
If its only slightly wonky and not far in, loosen homemade press and move threaded bar across to the lowest point of headset (bit that isnt in as far)
Tighten press until that point is in as far as the restthen undo again and centre press back up.
Repeat till tight and straight.
if its quite far in it will need knocked out with above pictured copper pipe.
estwing 24oz 😉 oh and some wood
If they were really tight it might be your headtube needs reaming.
Worth a trip to the bike shop for a check if you think they were a bit too tight.
You should be able to tap them out and have another go.
You have got the correct headset for the frame, haven't you? If it's giving so much trouble it sounds like it might be the incorrect headset.
Dont need no expensive tools, do one at a time, a mm at a time, straightening as you go. Once its in so far it will go in straight no problem.
Dont need no expensive tools.
Quite true, but the correct ones are a good start, and at £34 it's hardly expensive ?
I was going to say I've always tapped mine in with a rubber hammer, then the stem cap/star nut does the rest.
TJ - I did think about that, I might try freezing the cups next time before starting
Freezing isn't a completely stupid idea, but bearing in mind you're trying to get things a "distance" away from "room temperature", it's easier to get a temperature differential with boiling water (100C) than a freezer (-18C).
A story with a happy ending 🙂
Put some lube on them when you go for attempt No.2 & do them one at a time
Lumps of wood, a hammer warmer head tube than headset and some patience never failed me.
i've got the proper tool and i don't recall the headset cups ever going in wonky and then straightening up! They just went in straight to start with.
I have used the cyclus one and it's tip top.
Buy one and loan it out to your mates. It will get you lots of pints!
brant / captain - I do both - cups in the freezer and a cloth round the frame soaked in boiling water. It really helps - same with all bearings
I have one of these
That cyclus one on Wiggle that tragically1969 linked to is excellent and will last a lifetime. Money well spent I reckon.
as laready said, freezer overnight. Never needed more than a tap with a nylon mallet to get them in straight.
Is it a tapered headtube? I was in Head for the Hills a while ago and Rog had someone's nicolai frame off here (black one with green bits;lovely btw). He said that the nicolai tapered headtube was a bit of a nightmare. Can't remember his rationale but i'm sure it was something to do with the way they machine it. Anyway, it may be worth getting someone that has the proper kit and knows the frames to do it.
cyclus headpress is a quality tool, presses headset cups in with ease
brant / captain - I do both - cups in the freezer and a cloth round the frame soaked in boiling water. It really helps - same with all bearings
Or just a bigger hammer. Never fails. 🙂
FWIW, using the ill-advised hammer method the cups need to go in a fair distance before they stay straight.
Now, can anyone recommend me a headset press that isn't park tool expensive?
I've got a Cyclus headset press. As others have said, its a quality bit of kit. Fitted three headsets with mine now and had no bother with any of them.
FWIW, using the ill-advised hammer method the cups need to go in a fair distance before they stay straight.
I've been doing it for 20 years. Never had a problem. block of wood under the headtube on the floor and either a plank and a hammer or a wooden mallet. Don't pussyfoot around, 4-5 big wallops and it's in... 🙂
Not ideal, I grant you, but devastatingly effective! 🙂
[i]Not ideal[/i]
I think, for most people, even the £1.50 threaded rod, big washers and nuts approach is safer and more controlable. I've done that on all my frames (but I've never spent more than £200 on a frame)
on a £1k frame I'd be using the proper tool for the job
hammer n wood
Theaded bar and some big washers = 78p. CKs, FSAs Hopes even big 1.5 ones no problem.
+ another for hammer and wood. 😀
How often do folk replace headsets ffs? Is £10 to get a bike shop to do it really that much?!?! If you're friendly with the shop it may even get done for a doughnut!
I think, for most people, even the £1.50 threaded rod, big washers and nuts approach is safer and more controlable. I've done that on all my frames (but I've never spent more than £200 on a frame)
I tried that. It wouldn't go in straight and took too much faffing. I do LIKE hammers though..... 8)
Gotta say, bit of threaded bar & some large washers do the job very well can't see why anyone would spank £35-50 on the "proper tool" unless they were fitting them on a daily basis (i.e. working in a shop)...
Take your time, fit one cup then the other, don't attack it with a hammer, pretty simple really...
on a £1k frame I'd be using the proper tool for the job
.....I only have a £250 frame and I would still rather chuck my LBS a tenner to do it.
[b]Instructions for fitting headset.[/b]
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I just don't understand why everyone is so smug at penny-pinching? It's a risk for your frame and headset durability, and don't even think about having any warranty honoured!
It's a sort of Darwinistic, high risk, tool brinkmanship for me; I generally use a sledge hammer and a brieze block and an anvil I borrowed from the local blacksmith 20 years ago and I've never had any problems getting the head-set to stay straight, though it was slightly gutting when I 'mildly' dented the top of an Indy Fab ti with a slightly wild swing. That said, I'm not convinced that using some overpriced specialiast tool would have made any difference in that case.
Mostly, to be honest, it's about being able to come on here and ridicule anyone lame enough to buy decent quality tools. As some may recall, I also make my own allen keys from mild steel rods and am currently putting together a track pump from drainage tube I bought at B&Q. I honestly don't see why anyone would waste good money on expensive tools when you can simply make your own. Am I missing something here?
Edit: before people accuse me of skimping, I should point out that I do also own a Cyclus head-set press, but where's the excitement in using that?
Mostly, to be honest, it's about being able to come on here and ridicule anyone lame enough to buy decent quality tools
Hell, you wanna see my garage, and my tools (Fnarr fnarr) I've got some fairly specialist and expensive stuff in there. Including a specialist hammer for headset fitting... 8)
Anyhow, the proper headset removal tool works how, exactly....?
Hmm. Let me see.... You don't belt it with a hammer do you....? Nooooo surely not..... 😉
Anyhow, the proper headset removal tool works how, exactly....?Hmm. Let me see.... You don't belt it with a hammer do you....? Nooooo surely not..
You do indeed but I can speak from experience that it can be a better option than using homemade alternatives... 😳
I've got that Cyclus tool - was under £30 with a voucher - well worth it imo.
I don't know, I just don't understand why people seem to get off on belittling others' choices on here. Yes, you can use a hammer and a block of wood and mostly it'll work. Yes, you can use a head-set press and mostly it'll work. But why all the triumphalist, sneering stuff about how stupid it is to buy a press?
Better to put the headset cup on the floor and then wildly swing the frame at it until it goes in, then you save money on the hammer and bit of wood.
Tend to find the right tools do make things a bit easier and if you spend two grand on a frame then I don't think spending thirty quid on a tool is a bad idea.
The Cyclus one is nice enough. Works better with some than others (totally failed with my Works Industries kit for instance). It's no better than my DIY one, just a wee bit faster in use, you're paying for convenience not results which is fair enough.
Never had any problem with a hammer either but I appreciate some people are cackhanded 😉
I "acquired" a home made headset press whilst a member of a bike club many years ago, it belonged to the club, had been made by the organiser who was also an engineer by trade and he'd machined washers to fit from 1 inch upwards. Borrowed it once, somehow never got returned along with the rocket tool that came as part of the headset tools bag.
Might afford an expensive frame at some point where I go pale at the thought of fitting a headset, but I like bike maintenance, and TBH the only thing I can't do is wheel building, there is something nice about knowing the bike underneath you has been put together by you.
I just find a fault in the Earth's crust, insert frame and headset, wait for the crack to narrow, and after about 6,000,000 years my headset is installed. No pissing about with blocks of wood for me.
Using a hammer to fit a headset isn't 'fitting' it, it's 'getting away with it'
walleater - MemberI just find a fault in the Earth's crust, insert frame and headset, wait for the crack to narrow, and after about 6,000,000 years my headset is installed. No pissing about with blocks of wood for me.
😆
akira - MemberBetter to put the headset cup on the floor and then wildly swing the frame at it until it goes in, then you save money on the hammer and bit of wood.
😆
nickc - Member
"Using a hammer to fit a headset isn't 'fitting' it, it's 'getting away with it'"
That really is nonsense... It has more potential to go wrong if you're cackhanded but there's nothing wrong with the approach.
If you are going to put loads of headsets in then the right tool allows you to do it quickly and easily. If like most of us its an occasional thing then a threaded bar with bits of wood or washers will allow you to do it easily and safely if you take a bit of care.
akira - MemberBetter to put the headset cup on the floor and then wildly swing the frame at it until it goes in, then you save money on the hammer and bit of wood.
Love it!
It's not belittling each other, it's mildly ribbing, and suggesting that there is another way to do it. Personally I got my headset fitted by the frame-seller; I got my cranks fitted by the LBS because I couldn't be bothered buying the tools and wasn't confident enough to bodge it.
Chill TF out about people suggesting you don't need tools - they're not belittling your tackle FFS!
[i]I was going to say I've always tapped mine in with a rubber hammer, then the stem cap/star nut does the rest.[/i]
I knew someone was going to say this sooner or later. Quite possibly the stupidest way of pressing the headset into the frame, you're much more likely to pull the threads out of the star nut, pull the star nut out of the steerer, crack the top cap and / or knacker your headset bearings before you can put enough force in the right place to press the headset in adequately.
Yes, you can use a hammer and plank, or jump on it in clogs, or swing the frame repeatedly at the wall, or build your own tools out of earwax and sawdust. But really, most of the time there's a reason people have made tools for this sort of thing. And in this case the [u]best[/u] (though of course not the only) way to do it is to use the right tool for the job. As usual.
: P
2 lumps of wood and a G clamp is a pretty safe bet tbh acts just like a press...
I fitted a 1.5 headset into my carbon frame like that with no problems at all goes in nice and evenly.
walleater - MemberI just find a fault in the Earth's crust, insert frame and headset, wait for the crack to narrow, and after about 6,000,000 years my headset is installed. No pissing about with blocks of wood for me.
I did this and the ****er opened up on me and I lost my very expensive Hope headset down a volcanic fissure.
I'd need to be a very rich man before I'd buy a headset press. I've done many with a bit of wood and a hammer. Patience and care count. Mind you if I ever have an old threaded bar to suit lying about I may make my own press some day.
that cyclus one - seems to be described elsewhere as 1 inch or 1 1/8 (but not 1.5 ??)
If so, I'm out til they bring out a 1 1/8 or 1.5 one
(I use threaded rod & washers but i would buy one of them if it did bigger headsets too)
I'm with PeterPoddy and the others. Spent most of my bike building career doing it with a couple of chunks of wood, a hammer and some care, never once damaged a frame or got one in wonky. Can't really see how you could,especially with a threaded rod method, it's slow and rather obvious long before it gets terminal. Ah well, providing you've not ovalised/scoured too much from the frame material you'll be just fine.
Nicolai frames are notoriously tight for headsets. They are deliberately just fractionally too small so that there is some deformation of the headtube on fitting the cups. This means you get a decent fit no matter how many times you remove and fit them.
So all these suggestions for using bits of wood and a hammer may well work on your average frame but they are not going to work on a Nic.
Get a bloody shop to do it!
geetee: I'll bear that in mind when fitting mine soon....I'll be using a headset press as i work in a bike shop.
If you work in a bike shop you can probably ream and face the headtube with the proper tools then. Which means it will be headtube-size standard. No problem.
: P
I did mine with a couple of blocks of wood, a trolley jack and 2.5 tons of Mercedes van. Jack up back axle, place block of wood, frame, headset cup and other block of wood under towbar rail, steadily lower van.
But this was a £150 456 Summer Season frame. For a frame 6 to 7 times the cost, I'd be buying the proper tool.