[Closed] Disc brakes for XC = daft

Wrong or poor troll.

SHame on you in either case.

NEXT!

Ooooh controversial! 😐

Massively agree with op.

Utter rubbish

Just imagine changing your rims every year through brake wear

Its like riding in the early 90s

Yeah OP, fight the system!

If the OP is right it's a damning indictment for XC. If the OP is wrong it's a win for XC. Either way, tis but a poor troll.

boltonjon - Member

Utter rubbish

Just imagine changing your rims every year through brake wear

Its like riding in the early 90s

I had a bike where the rims collapsed from wear to say nothing of the fat its nice to have brakes that work consistently. But then I ride bikes all year round and most days

disc may not be essential - I rode without them for decades but they sure as heck make life better.

I wouldn't get a bike without now

Wouldn't this have worked better as a troll about 10 years ago?

If the OP is right it's a damning indictment for XC. If the OP is wrong it's a win for XC. Either way, it's all XC

get a pair of decent cable discs - DONE

6079smithw, you are so made up.

Massively agree with op.

as the saying goes; great trolls think alike.

I like what you did there nedrapier. I think.

and that suspension will never catch on.

Wouldn't this have worked better as a troll about 10 years ago?

Hang on a second whilst I answer the phone...

"What's that you say...? You're 2002, and your want your internet troll back?" 😉

Anyway, one man's XC, is another man's extreme freeride, is another man's bimble round the local park. And whilst you don't [i]need[/i] discs to be able to ride a bike offroad, on my "xc" rides I usually find enough interesting trails that point downwards that make me glad of having good quality disc brakes fitted to my bikes.

And is it just me that thinks the occasional bleed (like once every couple of years) of a disc brake system is far less hassle than constant adjustment of cables and pad angles as the pads wear on a V brake system? Not forgetting the wheels needing to be 100% in shape at all times to avoid rubbing on the pads.

Bike. Completely unnecessary for XC. the only advantage over walking is that it's quicker.

Still on the original rims from 1990? That's nothing, I'm still on my original pads from 1990.

I've still got my original feet from 1970. My teeth and nuts are newer though.

disc may not be essential - I rode without them for decades but they sure as heck make life better.
I wouldn't get a bike without now

This.

you lot bite so easily

And I'd hoped to get in here before the luddite of post#4.

to be fair ive had this 'argument' with a roadie in a pub, was about 4 years ago, and im still annoyed that he refused to accept he was talking bollox

-Carrying a load of toxic fluid in your bike. Nice
-Turn your bike upside down to change a puncture. Then no braking available at the next corner. Genius.
-If I want to buy an Orange/Cotic/whatever else STW stereotype hardtail frame then it won't have V/canti mounts. But more likely it will have options or arrangements to run it without gears like a true luddite (or child's bike).
Absolutley effin crazy.

>Mineral Oil

>Toxic Fluid

>Unbled Brakes

Try harder please.

You turn your bike upside down to fix a puncture?

-Turn your bike upside down to change a puncture. Then no braking available at the next corner. Genius.

Seriously? has this ever happened, really.
Urban myth.

Light your house with candles do you? It's called progress, deal with it.

I agree, loads of crap forced upon us by the [i]Man[/i] ..what about tyres?? Load of oblocks IMO, Nowt wrong with wooden rims, and bearings!!! Who really needs em eh? Bit of lard an bobs your uncle..Fanny's your aunt..and dicks your mums best friend! 😀
Innovation my arse!!!.....

tomhoward - Member

Light your house with candles do you? It's called progress, deal with it.

And what part of singlespeed is progress again?

Bored now, night all!

Having put together my old Chameleon as an SS winter bike I have to admit that for tight singletrack once its got fresh pads on it discs don't offer much advantage.

One man's XC...
[img] http://www.grannybuttons.com/.a/6a00d83451b11469e2013486574fb4970c-pi [/img]

Another man's XC...
[img] [/img]

Would be happy using V brakes for one, but not the other...

I'm happy to have my rims last for 5 years, rather than 2 thanks. Wet weather v braking with mud on the rims? No thank you.

If you ran tubeless you wouldn't be stopping to fix punctures. Anyway, I often turn my bike upside to clean/lube the drivetrain and it never affects the brakes.

Another mans XC - and the only place V Braked bikes should be is left in the garage
[img] [/img]

If the OP can keep up downhill with some of the XCers I ride with on a bike like this:

[img] [/img]

then I'd be very impressed. If not then maybe the possibility that other riders are quicker and benefit from technological progress should be considered...

I started [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-biggest-advance-in-mtbing-in-the-last-decade-discuss ]this[/url] thread a while ago on here, to prompt people to discuss what they thought the single biggest technological advance with Mountain Bikes in the last 10 years... Lots of people of course said disc brakes, but I discounted disc brakes purely cos discs have been widely available for mountain bikes (for good reason) for 15 years or more, so are outside of the time frame I specified!

Rose tinted specs are nice, and my XTR V Brake setup with Mavic ceramic rims and ceramic pads, with fully sealed goretex cables, was all well and good back in the day as it was about as good as V brakes got. And they worked pretty well in the dry, at low to medium speeds. At high speeds, or in the wet though, and they were of course very poor compared to any reasonable disc setup.

6079smithw - Member
-Turn your bike upside down to change a puncture. Then no braking available at the next corner. Genius.

I am prepared to concede that disk brakes, when set up badly by a cretin, and also ridden by a cretin, are worse than V brakes.

perhaps they are just riding off because your bike looks gash 😉

I am prepared to concede that disk brakes, when set up badly by a cretin, and also ridden by a cretin, are worse than V brakes.

lol

Whether other riders are better than me or not doesn't change the fact disc brakes are OTT. What a bizarre argument.

Although this was back in 2003, at a wet Gorrick race some racers were saying they'd got through whole disc brake pads in one lap. I had no such problems.

Junkyard - Member

perhaps they are just riding off because your bike looks gash

Whether other riders are better than me or not doesn't change the fact disc brakes are OTT. What a bizarre argument.

Now I know you're a troll!

Congratulations on the single stupidest thing anyone has said yet today... The day is only an hour old, but that one will take some topping!

Just because YOU don't feel the need for them, does not mean that others don't.

poor trolling effort, I'd go with something like 'MTB for XC - daft' next time as you can antagonise a wider pool of riders and may attract sympathetic trolling support from those who consider themselves at the more gnar end of the spectrum.

Last year I used my v- brake retro killi flyer for a lap at race. Oh my I love my discs.
V brake ok for bumbling around with your missis but not flat out down hill with flat bars on a hardtail

I could not help feed the troll sorry

I last bled my XT brakes in 2003 when I installed them, they have now been on 3 different frames and the only maintenance I have had to do is replace the pads - a 2 minute job with no finicky adjustments which can be done on th trail if necessary. I wouldn't want to try and install V pads out ib the wilds.

The OP may think they are OTT but just looking at it from a maintenance POV they have probably saved masses of time which can be spent riding the thing.

All brakes are OTT for mountain biking. Fixie all the way for me!

Pfft, v-brakes are flashy posers.

Rod brakes are where it's at. All this cable nonsense! *walks away shaking head*

don't feed the troll.

Yeah! Rod brakes..wooden rims..an lard instead of bearings..if you need owt else you're a wuss.... 😀
Mmmmmmmmmmlard.......

brakes are daft full stop. And they are for jessies..

jam your foot twixt tyre and frame a la 1981 for maximum radness.. be prepared for a bollocking from your old dear when she sees the state of your shoes though

That bike is better looking than Tulisa

[i]She's[/i] your yardstick? Each to their own, of course, but you've not set your standards all that high, now have you?

orangeboy - Member

Last year I used my v- brake retro killi flyer for a lap at race. Oh my I love my discs.
V brake ok for bumbling around with your missis but not flat out down hill with flat bars on a hardtail

nickf - Member
She's your yardstick? Each to their own, of course, but you've not set your standards all that high, now have you?

If it were a singlespeed you'd have been massively slower on a lap regardlesss of brake type. Yet that's an option on frames today while V brakes aren't.

Many of us, yes, but I know some guys that singlespeed or gears, it matters not, they'll still kick almost anyone's arses. So that's kinda a moot point, and far be it for me to defend singlespeed (not my thing either), but the whole idea originally is that it just doesn't require the level of maintaining so makes a good idea for winter bikes, where the overall speed will be lower anyway.

Races are won and lost on the climbs anyway

It depends at what level you're talking... Fat biffer sport category, yes almost certainly, but World Cup XC level... They're probably all as quick as each other on the ups, but the reason the likes of Julien Absalon has been so consistently successful over the last decade nearly, is he's such a good technical rider and descender, that's where he puts time into his opponents. Helps that he rides and trains with his brother Remy, who has pretty consistenly been the world's best Enduro DH rider too over the last few years.

As long as you can lock a wheel, that's as much braking power as you could ever need.

Power is nothing without control, as the old Pirelli advert used to go. You can lock a wheel if you put a stick in it, doesn't mean it's useful though! Similarly, take almost any old car with really crap brakes (but still disc brakes), something like an 80's Fiesta say. If you positively kick the brake pedal at 40mph, not squeeze it progressively, I guarantee you'll lock the wheels up still. Does that mean its brakes are good enough?

Being able to lock a wheel, and stop a bike effectively are two totally seperate things. Your engineering professor (would love to know where he teaches, so I could turn up to one of his lectures, and out him for the engineering know nothing luddite he really is in front of all his students!) hasn't got a clue. If you use fistfuls of brake, then you could probably get an old school U brake to lock a wheel even, or even a rod brake if you tugged hard enough! Only in the dry though, in perfect conditions.

To stop quickly, and safely, on a Mountain bike though, you need to maintain control of the bike. The more fingers you have to use to slow the bike down, the less control you're retaining on the bike. The more pressure you have to use to slow the bike down, the less control you have over the bike and the more fatiguing it becomes to brake repeatedly. Modern disc brakes, allow you to repeatedly stop a mountain bike, in any conditions, with a maxiumum of control, using only 1 finger per brake, and a minimum of brake lever pressure required. This is FAR better for the rider in the short, medium and long term.

I'm noticing that on your bike, amongst the other odd choices of component that you make, you are using some cheap caged pedals with clips and straps still. What's your theory behind this? Why not clipless pedals, or proper flat pedals? And the stem that crosses two time zones on its way to the handlebars from the steerer tube? Again, why? You will find your retro lookout, and belief that technological advances are marketing bullshit, is pretty unique on here. OK, now I'll agree that when some manufacturers claim their 2012 bike is 5% stiffer than their 2011 bike, and 50 grammes lighter, in an attempt to justify a £300 price hike, I'm one of the first people to whinge about marketing bullshit, but disc brakes came on the scene a long time ago, and have stuck around for good reason.

Eh? one finger braking is fine with v brakes.

I'd rather use the brake lever thanks all the same. There is always a risk of catching said pinkie in the spokes if you do it your way.

As long as you can lock a wheel

Complete & utter rowlocks my friend 'cos at that point youve lost control of how much braking youre applying.

An engineering professor actually told me this.

Did he tell you that the Earth was flat too??

Luckily for you, this is a democratic country. if you don't like disc brakes, then no one is forcing you to fit them! Just stick with your V brakes.

The rest of us, not stuck in 1984 will continue on without you

(and no, i'm not going to wait at the bottom of the hill for you to catch up as you bump along at 5mph out of control on your chosen steed)

The original point was that many frames and forks don't come with bosses for rim brakes anymore. 🙄

You're an absolute fanny if you honestly believe discs will make you any faster or more in control on most XC descents.

Why?

stem that crosses two time zones on its way to the handlebars

You're an absolute fanny if you honestly believe discs will make you any faster or more in control on most XC descents.

I'm an absolute fanny.

All XC descents which are ridden faster and better due to disc brakes are now re-categorised as hydrodiscgnarXCore...

You're an absolute fanny if you honestly believe discs will make you any faster or more in control on most XC descents.

in the dry maybe, but in the wet?

pff i dont even know why im replying to this troll thread...

You're an absolute fanny if you honestly believe discs will make you any faster or more in control on most XC descents.

Can you please define "XC descent"?

XC riding in the mud with rim brakes = poor braking and clogged up forks/chain+seat stays.

XC riding in the mud with disc brakes = good braking

Conclusion = As this is the UK and generally muddy most the year XC riding is better with discs.

clogged up forks/chain+seat stays.

thing is... in muddy conditions your bike rolls way slower and braking lessens grip so why are you wanting "better" brakes? sounds like some of you you might be a bit scared of riding in mud to me.

pretty bloody obvious chvck but here you go:
"XC descent"? = any descent on an XC ride. (and I did say "most")
XC ride = up/down/along and mainly off road.

was riding for 10 years on cantis and v-brakes (which were amazing at time, and came with a tag saying not to pull the front too hard because you'll endo). then one day, I used my emergency support grant to buy a set of hopes in 1998-ish. All of a sudden I was able to smoke everyone on the pink heifer descents in the wet, because I could brake later and harder. Good day, that. Ahhh, nostalgia. when coed y brenin had proper trails, not this motorway nonsense, and you got a baked potato with cheesey beans on in the shed at the end, jumpers for goalposts, and so on.

mboy - Member

It depends at what level you're talking... Fat biffer sport category, yes almost certainly, but World Cup XC level...

mboy - Member

Similarly, take almost any old car [b]with really crap brakes[/b] (but still disc brakes), something like an 80's Fiesta say. If you positively kick the brake pedal at 40mph, not squeeze it progressively, I guarantee you'll lock the wheels up still. Does that mean its brakes are good enough?

And if you ride when it's raining the disc/pad gets affected just as negatively as a rim/pad would.
There could be a market for drum brakes, who knows?

mboy - Member

I'm noticing that on your bike, amongst the other odd choices of component that you make, you are using some cheap caged pedals with clips and straps still. What's your theory behind this?

mboy - Member

And the stem that crosses two time zones on its way to the handlebars from the steerer tube? Again, why?

Both are harmful to squirrels.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

1. I like to see the sunrise in New York while my wheels are in Surrey

That's 4 time zones, but I'll give you that one... Good come back! 😉

Almost all Olympic XC gold medals have been won by riders with rim brakes - fact. (Actually I'm guessing but I'm sure I'm correct on that).

Don't go into an argument armed without facts. MTB has been in the Olympics since 1996, but a quick youtube search for footage reveals that even by the Sydney Olmypics in 2000 many competitors were running disc brakes, by 2004 in Athens just about all of them were already on discs (although Absalon was still using V Brakes at this point oddly). Just found a pic of Absalon's 2008 winning Olympic bike, and it's very definitely fitted with disc brakes though, as was everyone else's it would also seem by video footage. Even the French and American markets, that doggedly hung onto V's on top level XC bikes for ages after the rest of the world moved on, still moved over to discs pretty much wholesale 7 or 8 years ago now.

And if you ride when it's raining the disc/pad gets affected just as negatively as a rim/pad would.
There could be a market for drum brakes, who knows?

It does get affected, but not as badly. I remember Shimano made several prototype drum brakes back around the late 90's, and several top level DH riders were testing them. They seemed to do the job pretty well, only they were hideously expensive to make, and generated extreme amounts of heat iirc.

You've just prejudiced a statement then contradicted yourself. If the brakes can lock the wheels, there is no more the brakes can do to slow you down. The maximum possible deceleration of a vehicle is µg where µ is the coefficient of friction between tyre and ground. Hence why riding down a muddy slope it matters very little what your braking medium is because not much braking force will lead to locking a wheel. Grippier, more suitable tyres would make the biggest difference. You know this to be true from experience.

A bigger grippier tyre will of course make a difference. I'm not denying that. You've lost what I was trying to get at though, and that is the speed factor. A V brake, in the dry, is usually more than capable of locking a wheel up at low speeds... How does it perform at high speeds?

It's not the low speed performance that's an issue, if we all rode everywhere at a max of 10mph, then V brakes would be fine. Its the high speed stuff that we're concerned with. V brakes simply don't provide enough power as the speed increases. Discs offer a lot more power and control which is more useful at higher speeds.

I'm interested to know, have you properly ridden a bike with decent disc brakes for any amount of time? And if so, on what terrain, and what did you think?

1. Cheap 2. Being mechanically attached to a bike? No thanks

I can understand the first point you make about your pedals, but the second...? With clips and straps, you're actually more mechanically attached to the bike (it's certainly more difficult to get out of in a hurry) than with decent clipless pedals. It's an old wives tale that experienced riders like to scare newbies with when they start riding, that clipless pedals are dangerous to use and need extreme care.

Anyway... Where do you ride normally? It might go some way to explaining some of your theories also, and why you're happy with what you've got. It'd be interesting to see you swap bikes with someone on a modern disc braked, clipped in, short stemmed bike to see how you cope. I think if you relaxed a bit, you might even enjoy it somewhat more than you think possible!

Wow. People are STILL trolling on this topic after all these years.

OP, isn't it about time you got some new material?

U brakes anyone?

one shin whack is always one too many

Have you considered a skills course?

Had a great ride today - at no point did I think I needed or wanted disc brakes.
And no squirrels were harmed either.
[IMG] [/IMG]

Anyway, there is a half decent frame in existence that has V-brake mounts

Like they say, if you're riding across a continent the last thing you want is hydraulics to worry about.

kenneththecurtain - Member

Wow. People are STILL trolling on this topic after all these years.

OP, isn't it about time you got some new material?

Just you wait til my next thread!

Wow, this is still going, I am incredulous.

Eh? one finger braking is fine with v brakes.

Agreed. If correctly set up. And in the dry. But quite tiring on longer trails. I would not swap my disc brakes back for Vs.

Ha ha - brilliant

Been away for 4 days without internet access and see that this is still going

The best bit is the dead squirrels - genius!! 😀

Your choice of bicycles hints very closely at the type of riding you do and thus why you would see no merit in disc brakes for 'your' XC.

Do you really need to carry on with this?