@tourismo - that becomes a logistical nightmare for 2 reasons.
Firstly, you either send the slow riders out first so that they have more time, or have to keep marshals on course for an extra couple of hours, and make sure the fast boys haven’t pinched all the food at feed stops / the end before the slower ones get there.
Secondly, you get the people who want to ride with their partner / riding buddy / club to start with and then go off to do the longer route - they will start asking to change start groups, and then it gets complicated to work out the permutations…
I’m nothing to do with Focal, btw - I’ve just done enough of their events that I know a lot of the regular marshals.
Yeah, they say they’re trying to emulate Unbound etc and therefore presumably mass-start is part of the appeal.
Not sure I even knew Nicholas Roche was there yesterday mind you 🤷🏻♂️ 🤣🤣
I loved it. Only managed the 130 this year but thought the course was easier than the last time I did it 2yrs ago. Feed stop 1 was horrendously slow but the worst part was riders grabbing the plastic containers that the brownies etc came in and filling them up full with everything available - greedy ********!!! Feedstop 2 was fine as I'd started to come alive again after dying at around the 80km mark!
Great event and who cares if it wasn't perfect, at least they made the effort!!
Thanks to all the Marshalls, you make it (slightly) easier 😜
Yeah - definitely a big thanks to the Marshals. The encouragement was definitely needed and appreciated whilst going around.
I remember the spot you were at, @jonedwards - I pulled over there as I thought my BB was borked. Turns out it was just all the mud from that section was causing a horrendous racket.
Again, thanks for putting your time into it. It’s certainly appreciated.
Rich
Hopefully the organisers care it wasn’t perfect and try and improve.
IRL I’m pretty much as easy going and self sufficient as it gets and had I done my usual and rode non stop I’d have not noticed some of the problems. But at £75 a pop, plus headline sponsers helping out, it did feel like they’d taken a £10 local school fete bike ride and done nothing more than added a sticker saying GRAVEL to it to justify the extra price 🤣🤣🤣
it did feel like they’d taken a £10 local school fete bike ride and done nothing more than added a sticker saying GRAVEL to it to justify the extra price
Ouch. As part of the team, I'll take your feedback into the review we do. Feed 1 is usually a place for riders to fly by, or stop briefly to grab a snack and is usually an outside affair. With all the talk of torrential rain etc, we took the decision to go inside the hall, which in hindsight was an error. It caused congestion and delays and slowed everything down - not to mention the state of the hall...........
It sounds like you arrived at the busiest period. Timing points are as much about knowing where you all are, or were last tracked. We don't cook the finishers food and always try to support local business - we'll review the options there.
We're listening. And good effort on your ride and consistent training.
My photos are now up on Roots and Rain. I’m still on with tagging but can’t tag all due to the mud and not being able to read the numbers. Photos are time stamped though.
Well done to all that finished this year. 200km off-road is a good achievement.
I tried to buy an entry but just missed out.
There sounds like that there is plenty of room for improvement with the planning though. As I've mentioned on here beforehand (more than once), I struggle to justify the entry fees into these events especially when you hear that some of the things you're paying for you don't actually get.
The event is still on my bucket list, maybe next year.
Thanks @boxelder 😀
Just to reiterate again to avoid doubt- every single person I had interaction with was awesome.
Everyone was in great spirits and trying their best. The mechanic at aid 2 was like a battlefield surgeon magically saving the lives of bikes who should have been long since dead 🤣
Any criticism I have goes right to the very top- they knew how many entries they had.
The worst thing I haven’t mentioned was no finishers patch 😭 🎻 🤣🤣🤣
I did the 130km ride and enjoyed it. We stayed in teepee tents in the rugby club.
That was a great option & being so close to the event centre was really good. The only downside to it was that 2 loos weren't really enough....but, it was fine.
Showers were amazing. Best showers I have used at any event.
It's a shame that the inflatable pub & BBQ didn't get more traction. I think with the rain & chill in the air, there wasn't much appetite for it.
As for the ride - first time I've done the Reiver. I enjoyed it. The course was probably easier than I expected, although that could be me under-estimating the effectiveness of my training. There were times I felt I could have done with a slightly easier gear - I was on 40 with an 11-42 cassette and am a bit of a spinner, so some of the hills towards the end were a slog.
That's not to say it was an easy ride - but I was expecting parts of it to be a real struggle for me, but it was actually OK.
I live on the edge of the fenny flatlands, so hills are my nemesis.
My Wahoo time was 6:11 - my official time was 6:22 which I was happy with.
I stopped at feed 1 only to swap my gilet for a waterproof, relube my chain & scoff a gel. It looked busy to me, but I just propped my bike against the cluster of bins, so didn't see the main area.
Feed 2 was also busy, but I only waited 30seconds or so to get some energy drink. Part of the congestion there seemed to be all the people dumping there bikes as close as they could to the stalls so you couldn't easily get past.
Thanks to the marshalls! I think I also saw JonEdwards' tarp loaded car - I remember passing it & thinking what a good idea it was.
Timing - meh. If you are that bothered about getting a super-quick time, don't rely on feed stations & keep on trucking. It's not a race and you have the moving time from the bike GPS, so does it really matter if all of the feed stations are timed? I think it would have been a lot more cost/effort to have had all the extra timing stuff at the entry/exit to all feed stations.
Finally - I was well happy with my Camino. I've only had it for about 2 months and it was left as stock. The 45mm tyres at 35psi seemed ideal and I had no issues bike-wise.
Well done @stumpy01 that’s awesome 👍🏻
Ref the timing it’s just an idea we thought of to make it meaningful. Otherwise sack off Timing Up North altogether and make it a cheaper event.
I don’t ride round the garden without gps running so as you say- it’s not actually an issue. It just feels pointless the way it’s done.
I had a great weekend but feel I have unfinished business. Signed up for the 200km but given the weather me and the guy I was riding with decided to drop to the 130km. Was an easy decision at the time and think I'd have struggled with the 200km on the day but....
Anyway, chapeau to all who road and especially those that did the long route. I was 41st of 197 is my category so pleased with the pacing.
A couple of lads in the Angler we were talking to said it was the hardest yet in terms of the ground conditions and they'd done them all to far. There quite a few people with 1000 yard stares out there.
Re the organisation, I thought it was very good overall. They have a difficult balance to strike between rider welfare and logistics v making riders feeling that they are on an adventure in a remote part of the world. All the event info I saw emphasised the need to be self-sufficient. It's not a road sportive. I stopped doing them after I heard one too many self-entitled roadies winge about the lack of gels as a feed stop. My only feedback is 1. lack of loos for those who can't or prefer not to pee in the trees and 2. some ambigiuty over what if any mechanical support there was on the course. 3. that veggie curry/stew thing wasn't great.
As for the complaints about the start and the timing... well, let's not take ourselves too seriously eh? Point taken about the cost but just look at the geographical area they need to mark out, marshal, monitor with timing stations etc.
All in all, thoroughly enjoyable event in the best county in England. I may return.
Otherwise sack off Timing Up North altogether and make it a cheaper event.
The point of the timing is largely about safety. The organisers know a) who started; b) who took which route option c) who finished. If there's a disparity between who started and who finished, they have some idea of where to start looking from knowing which timing pads they went past, which they didn't, and when.
But at £75 a pop, plus headline sponsers helping out, it did feel like they’d taken a £10 local school fete bike ride and done nothing more than added a sticker saying GRAVEL to it to justify the extra price
This is harsh. My day job is in a different segment of the events industry - one of the reasons I keep volunteering to marshal is that Focal do genuinely have their shit together compared to other event organisers I've worked for. Things like foodstations are actually little fripperies round the edges. Getting a couple of thousand people round the route safely is the big thing, and this they do very well.
RE entry fee; having seen Stonehaugh Village Hall, I can believe it looked like a £10 audax location when in full spate, but, well, its a village hall in BF Nowhere - its gonna look like that! Practically £75 gets you very little these days - it cost us more in diesel just to get there and back. Even with the title sponsors adding money, stuff like this only just breaks even, and the organisers are probably well below minimum wage if they were to work out an hourly rate. As an example - all the plant on site - lights, power, tents, extra toilets and showers etc are all going to have to be dragged in from Carlisle or Newcastle. I wouldn't be surprised to find there's a 5 figure sum just for the transport of that stuff. It adds up VERY quickly. Hell, what's the public liability insurance cost for running an event that drags over 1000 people across some of the most remote land in the country??
Hell, what’s the public liability insurance cost for running an event that drags over 1000 people across some of the most remote land in the country??
Disclaimer: I have no idea on the insurance provider or costs incurred by the DR organisers!
However:
For Sportives (on or off road), I know British Cycling charge an up front cost of £50 and then a levy of £1.20 per rider.
So for 1000 riders, that'd be £1250 total. Actually not the worst value in the world but it'll vary between insurance providers and I can imagine some charging a lot more based on the perceived increase in risk due to the remote terrain.
Plus the insurance will depend on the Risk Assessment factors such as First Aid cover and the options for rescuing a casualty or getting to an incident which will involve far more costs in terms of the number of personnel and the equipment (4x4 ambulances, radio boosters, GPS tracking, marshals etc) and keeping all those people fed, watered and safe as well.
In a road Sportive you can more or less leave a lot of that up to the regular blue light services maybe with back up from St John or similar at feed stations. Off road, especially somewhere as remote as Kielder, you need to provide your own full on paramedics throughout.
Fair point about the safety aspect with the timing but then have it and don’t publish it if people aren’t allowed to ‘care’ about it 🤷🏻♂️
Thinking on your comments further- I actually think it’s an annoying price rather than a high one. Vrs a £13 Crit it’s obviously ridiculous but if there’s not enough money in it at £75 then make it £200 and justify the expense of everyone getting there- as you say, the main expenses everyone incurred are not the entry fee as it is.
I did a local mtb ride last year called UptoNoGood and that was £35 but blew the socks off of DR for atmosphere, vibe and smooth running.
My mate was there for the first time having only done road sportives before so it was interesting to hear his thoughts. I’ll not publish them without his context though but needless to say he wasn’t overly impressed (although I won him round with my love for the man made timber-factory that Kielder is so we’ll no doubt be back 🤣).
FWIW ultimately my job is events management too and I’ve learned that the customer is always right- there’s not an infinite pool of clients out there, so the simplest way to get people back is to blow their socks off with service.
I think they need to pay the Forestry for various things. When we looked at organising something Kielder was prohibitive.
£75 seems reasonable to me. If they wanted to make money they'd up the price. It sells out in less than 24h so on a value based price structure they could charge more.
I had no trouble at the feed stations but I guess I was in the front 100 or so. Had a drop bag so ate that but next year might go for the minimum and use feed stations as insurance/top up.
We're already talking about next year. Operation 8hours 😂. Would need better conditions for me but I'd go back with a plan to be fast, not just get round.
Well done @slowpuncheur great stuff 👍🏻
It’s tricky isn’t it. If people have paid a high entry fee then… they kind of are ‘entitled’ aren’t they 🤷🏻♂️
Obviously there’s a balance between costs and facilities- 20 luxury portaloos with bidets and butler service would not be “reasonable”. Likewise one portaloo at aid 2 to cater for 1000+ people is probably “unreasonable”.
I’ll poop anywhere and obviously peeing is easy for blokes but for women wearing bibs it doesn’t feel very inclusive that they have to choose between a full strip in the forest or a 20min queue.
“Come to our forest and inject half a million quid into the local economy but ya ain’t gonna get ‘owt back like pet”
Oooo sounds exciting @Jonba! Maybe I’ll start a 2024 thread just to keep the training mojo going 🤣
Having done the aid station thing and the non-stop thing I’ll join you in the middle. With three bottles and a splash and dash I can get round in optimum time I reckon. If this year is finally the one I lose weight I may even trouble 9hrs 🤣
It was fairly filthy in the first 100km, wet, gritty and cold. We almost bailed to do the 130km but we were fortunate to have the route go past our lodge just before the 2nd feed station so we were able to change and get a hot coffee and DRY Gloves. As you all know the weather cheered up and so we decided to finish the 200. After that the riders thinned out and it became an altogether more pleasant experience. I decided on rigid MTB in the end and was pleased with choice.
That beastly 4 mile climb made me light headed despite the 110g CHO per hour but the coffee at the final feed station picked me up big time. Bloody shame they had no red bull at the last station! I thought that was quite poor.
Once back at the lake I felt great and ramped up big time my speed. I was told I did not push myself enough, with an ave HR of 125 against a max of 185, and ended up at Z3 on climbs, Z2 on flats and full aero on descents. so need to get used to riding at tempo for long periods for the Gralloch. Managed 10:05 official, 9:23 moving time. Annoyed with myself I did not think I was close to the 10 hour mark until too late and didn't make it despite riding the last 12 miles at threshold.
Nice chatting to random folks including a chap on a 2013 rigid Dirty Harry, and towards the end a fellow on a Open Up who did a lot of riding in the Dolomites.
Enjoyed the event. I learned the term "Type 2" fun.
Just finished the bike clean up and i'm actually quite surprised how much brake pad I have left considering all the talk of grinding paste before hand, then again I was thinking about that on every descent and tried to limit as much braking as possible which was actually fairly easy seeing as every descent was followed by an ascent😂. Chain wear has definitely been accelerated though, the conditions on the day seem to have been ideal for stripping a chain of all lubrication, I've never seen my chain so dry, with hindsight I should have reapplied some lube at Feed 3, but by that time the trails were dry and dusty again and I figured (perhaps without clarity of thought) that any lube would attract dirt and would be just as abrasive as no lube, still my drivetrain remained quiet throughout which is more than could be said about some of the riders that I passed!
With regards to feedback on the event and after reading all the posts from others, I think everyone makes some valid points and I have no complaints about the organisation or the timing, for me it is just about facilities, there clearly isn't enough accommodation available locally for the number of participants as I couldn't get anything so overflow it was, which was fine except for the lack of washing facilities, full on mobile shower blocks would have been messy I suspect but something to allow a post ride wash would have been very welcome, and @crosshair states the lack of toilets really affects female participants more than men and isn't at all inclusive.
I stayed at the Boe Rigg campsite and think I met a few of you over the weekend who were staying there.
Ended up doing the 130 (after doing the 65 in 2019) and was really pleased with that given the conditions. Loved the new route and enjoyed the woody sections as I managed to stay upright.
The event village seemed to feel a little bit lack luster this year - we went for a pedal around the lake on the Friday after registering and most stuff had run out (it wasn't even 6pm).
Same for the first two feed stops - felt a bit basic given the feel of them in 2019 - second feed stop the Weldlite team had gone (I thought we were supposed to get offered a chain lube station - seems to be present for earlier riders)
I was a little disappointed to come over the finish line and just get a sticker...
However, the actual riding (the important bit!) was great - was nice not to do the same sections as previously.
After a bit of time to let everything sink in, I suppose the true test is would I do it again and I think the answer is yes.
Travel issues on the way up meant I didn't arrive until about 7 so by the time I got my tent up and registered it was an almost lights out. Similarly, on Saturday I leaving about 8 and because of my pace this meant I literally rolled over the finish line back to the campsite and packed m tent and left. I think due to this I missed some of the "event"
@crosshair Re the bike choice, I got round in close to my predicted time, had no punctures, mechanicals or even close calls so from that point there is nothing to say negative but I do think I would be faster in my cross bike. The guy doing the route on a 50 year old road bike with 25mm tyres will testify that you can ride it on anything!
Given the weather, the mtb was probably the right call but I would choose a different bike with skinier tyres in future. Then again, I might just be slower than I like to admit!
With work and family commitments my longest ride in the last year have been about 100km and after about 4 or 5 hours my back really started to hurt which caused no end of issues. I think accepting 1 hour sessions on the trainer and a few hours on the weekend isn't going to prepare my body for 10+ hours is sensible.....
That being said, I am a glutton for punishment and come June have a 300+km ride across from Whitley Bay to Ayr non stop which will take me back through Kielder. So next big choice is Cross bike with 30mm tyres for all day comfort of 8Kg carbon road bike with 23/25mm tyres.... think it deserves and thread???
Yes there's a thread there for sure 😃
In other years I've had to get back for work so I usually sleep in my car Friday and drive back the second I finish on Saturday. I can't say staying until Sunday added much for me- but that may have been because my mate didn't want to do a Sunday morning lap of the reservoir with me (which seemed like the only good reason to stay).
I'm a big Dylan Johnson fan and I know he is adamant on the tyre thing and is always raving about his drop-barred hardtail Factor XC bike. I reckon that right there is the ultimate Kielder slayer 🤔
Well done on getting round! Glad you had a good time. Definitely type 2 fun but it's pretty addictive up there- must be all the oxygen from the trees 😃
I rode the 65 with a team of disabled hand cyclists. We had a great time, despite a couple of battery issues meaning we needed to tow riders up the big climb!
Awesome @riklegge that's brilliant! I saw some out on course and was very impressed 💪🏻
Wish I'd looked on here before the event, my main take away is that I need to train harder.
Fwiw I thought the course was brilliant and there were several occasions when I came across another big yellow arrow in the middle of nowhere that I thought that £70 was a bargain for 200km (more when you factor in the other courses) of really well marked out route and gpx file in a such a remote area. We really benefited from the local knowledge and planning of the organisers. Everything else was a bonus for me. Many thanks to all the organisers and volunteers.
That's not to say I was entirely happy with the event but that's down to the failings of my body and its inability to make me go as fast as I would have liked.
My one complaint is that it would have been nice to have had a cup of tea with the finishing meal. I skipped the tea at feed 3 just grabbing drink and gel in a failed attempt to keep my time under 10 hours and spent the rest of the ride craving a cuppa.
I'm with you there @dodgyrog. Hot sweet tea can't be that hard to organise. I suppose the Insta-tubers prefer a Kombucha though!
I really enjoyed the day and thought the £75 was pretty good value considering how much goes into safely running an event of that size in that location.
I spent a lot of my youth hiking and camping in those hills and it was great to get back there. I should have remembered just how challenging the weather can be at times!
Didn’t experience any waiting at the feed stops, probably because most people were already through by the time I got there 😂
We were supposed to do the 200, but it was very quickly apparent that there was no chance of making the cut off and me and my riding buddy happily dropped down to 130. Pretty sure I could make the 200 with a little more training and better weather. Maybe next year.
The bike worked well and I was pretty chuffed to feel in pretty good nick after my longest gravel ride ever. Was expecting to feel a lot more beaten up.
All the talk on here of brake pad apocalypse meant I braked as little as possible and easily achieved a new PB top speed on gravel descents. Which was interesting…
All in all a great event that I would “happily” do again. Many thanks to the marshals - all were superb.
Just to add some balance to the negative reviews of the finish line curry, I really enjoyed it 😋 I could have eaten 3 or 4 portions of it!
There was plenty more in the bin you could have had 🤣
I ended up in the Anglers with a grab bag of Quavers with a bag of beef Mcoys and a bag of scampi fries tipped in on top to make a crisp-medley 🤣🤣
🤣 I do have some standards, they are low, but not that low.
First session back on the turbo last night…. That took some will power to see it through!
Lol! I know how you feel 😀 2024 training starts here though right 😉
Insurance isn't just through BC for the event I'm organising the cancellation insurance is about 10% of the budget.
Mrs 100th ride the reiver and stopped to ask if folk stranded with mechanicals were ok. Most were easy fixes, first was someone with a puncture but no pump or CO2. Next was a broken chain, they were trying to phone for a pal to come help.
Mrs100th isn't most mechanically minded but I've shown her how to change pads, fix broken chains simple trail maintenance, she also had the tools. But I've said not to lend them not to fix others bikes. If you ride you should have what is on the kit list.
Good on her and that’s a great idea about not lending stuff on the kit list 🤣
Thinking about it, I only ever saw people broken down in pairs or more and when I had my puncture, Rich was with me so nobody asked us if we were okay 🤣
I was pleased with the cheapo Amazon bacon strips- much better than Dynaplugs.
It may seem a bit dickish but if she lends a tube then punctures shes go no tube.
Yeah makes total sense! On a club run is one thing but out there in those conditions- too right 👌🏻
That is the last of images and all that can be tagged done and up on Roots and Rain.
