[Closed] Dehydration/feeling knackered the next day- where am I going wrong?

How much did you eat?

Ditch the added salt that you DONT need, and the hydration tablet thing for starters.

Balanced diet? Heat stroke?

One off?

Pasta (chopped olives/garlic in), abit of pesto.

Quite abit of espresso first thing.

About 12 I had a pie at Fairholmes.

A shit load of espresso.

That could be the problem.

cat funt?

Orange juice is not good for hydration is it?

Quite abit of espresso first thing.

plus extra salt, plus riding in the heat

if it was a road ride that long i'd want to be eating all the way along too - assuming you're putting some effort in that might be a good idea. dried fruit/nuts etc.

i assume you're eating something substantial afterwards too?

You had the Pasta for breakfast? Why not try porridge with honey and bannana instead, I'm not a big fan, but a mate suggested I try it and it made a huge difference to me.

Coffee will have completley dehyrdated you unless it was decaff?

If thats all I ate in a day I wouldnt be able to function at all.

It was a very hot day.
You are very unfit
Question answered in full.

Coffee has very little dehydrating effect

http://www.divinecaroline.com/22178/46361-coffee-makes-dehydrated-say-what

Ditch the added salt that you DONT need, and the hydration tablet thing for starters.

🙄

unfit

monksie 😆

Thanks for the link and I'll try porridge/honey/banana and graze on raisins etc.

I have three heaped tablespoons of Lavazza in a cafetiere when I get up... 😯

Hora - i have similar before riding (coffe) if not more. Just make sure you have a glass of water for each cup of coffee you have. I also dring a 500ml bottle of water 20mins before riding.
2L of water during 4hrs of riding and a big drink of milk straight after finishing (this is on a HOT DAY like yesterday)

Phil you dont need added salt, the avg UK diet overdoses on it so you have more than you need before your start. If you read alot of the proper research its only people at extremes of physical activity that need added salt, not just punting out on the bike for 5 hours...

The hydration tablet thing, well me I'd prefer to make sure my body is naturally hydrated and drink plenty of water, that way I might not feel sh!t the next day.

...also, try to keep caffeine intake on a par with your usual.

Unless you are trying to wean yourself off. People often have caffeine withdrawal issues over the weekend.

Plenty, plenty, plenty of fluid. Salt additive not really needed for someone like yourself.

Oh, and Monksie +1 (like the rest of us)

Cheers 🙂

On a bigger ride like that I'd have taken a couple of litres of energy drink (I prefer the SIS stuff) or better still an electrolyte replacement drink. I'd also have eaten more food whilst riding.

If I remember I also have a recovery type drink when I get back. Water on it's own doesn't replace the salts (not salt) you lose when sweating.

I'd also be knackered though after 5 hours of riding in yesterday's sunshine.

I also drank water afterwards

Try fast absorbed carbs after a long ride - it really helps. Recovery drink is good but more expensive. Torq recovery is the best and MOST expensive imo 🙂 Worth a try for next time.

I've found electrolyte drink helpful in avoiding the killer thirst, but that seems to contradict what some have said up there.

But it could be a one off. Nursing a cold or some other infection that you don't yet know about; poor nutrition that week; being less fit than you thought; etc etc.

stumpyjon - Member

On a bigger ride like that I'd have taken a couple of litres of energy drink (I prefer the SIS stuff) or better still an electrolyte replacement drink. I'd also have eaten more food whilst riding.

If I remember I also have a recovery type drink when I get back. Water on it's own doesn't replace the salts (not salt) you lose when sweating.

I'd also be knackered though after 5 hours of riding in yesterday's sunshine.

Any recommendation for the salts/electrolyte replacement? Feel absolutely zonked out after a few hours at the weekend, think it's down to the heat/sweating more than anything.

Maybe it was something to do with the pie, peas and gravy you had at lunch.

you dont need added salt, the avg UK diet overdoses on it so you have more than you need before your start.

If you read alot of the proper research its only people at extremes of physical activity that need added salt, not just punting out on the bike for 5 hours

The hydration tablet thing, well me I'd prefer to make sure my body is naturally hydrated and drink plenty of water, that way I might not feel sh!t the next day

What did you have the night before?

I have porridge for breaky and just have water in the camel bak but have bars and a sandwich with me if riding all day! What kind of pace are you riding at?!

Probably good to replenish the salts you've lost during the sweating too. Not just table salt I'm talking about either.

Hora - is this just a one off or regular occurance?

Ok in extremes of temperature your body uses more energy so you need more food and more fluids. Ideally at least 1 litre per hour but that's not always possible. Fluids before and after are good, added salt isn't necessary, hydration tablets and such may benefit but for average Joe not massive benefit. Yesterday was very hot spending along time in the sun can effect you and even more so during exercise.

So to conclude, you didn't eat enough, you possibly didn't drink enough, it was very hot and your unfit. So a normal response.

I've been amazed just how much water I must sweat out.!!!
Here's a little story:
Last Autumn I was probably a bit fitter than now, so didn't take much persuading to go for a day riding in the Lakes with a friend (who's stupidly fit and 20 years my junior).
I sweat like a pig all day when riding anyway, but this was just constant effort and I was feeling it! Probably not nore than 35 miles but loads of ascent in maybe 6 hours of riding.

I'd weighed myself when I got out of bed before the ride.
I had porridge, juice and coffee; 3 litres of water/energy drink mixed 50/50 in the pack; butties and jellybabies; pint of coke in the pub after; Indian takeaway and a few pints of water for tea; back on the scales again at the end of the day....and I'd lost 5 lbs!!!
Suffered headaches that evening/night and felt decidedly "off-colour".
I can only put that down to dehydration.

Difficult to get enough water in to replace what's lost sometimes.

EDIT - I did start to feel similar yesterday night after a 30 miler in the heat but nothing like the same severity, oh and yesterday I put weight on over the day, which is more normal. - EDIT

I did 84 miles of the SDW on Saturday, 40 miles more than I've ridden before, 10 hours cycling, a train journey back to Brighton then another 7 mile ride home followed by a quick shower and straight out the door to go out for the evening. I put being able to do that down to malt loaf, oat cakes and Nuun tablets which I was using for the first time and I was really impressed with them. Felt pretty good all day and good the next day, whereas normally I'd be thirsty but water never really seemed to quench my thirst. I shall be using them from now on for anything longer than a couple of hours.

As others have said, caffeine has minimal impact when you're cycling in the heat as you're going to sweat more than the diuretic effect of the coffee. On the road bike in the heat I have one 500ml bottle of water+electrolyte replacement and one 750ml of plain water (this gets topped up when I pass places where I can). I'll also usually have a little something to eat once an hour roughly; either a cereal bar or nuts or something.

Most important things for me are to keep drinking the plain water and every third time I go for a bottle, drink the electrolyte replacement.

I usually eat 2hours before a ride and sparingly (normally nick odd bits of food off of others) whilst I'm on it (or eat my own if I bring anything but always eat it when its too late).

Thats my weakness in general. Fitness? Its a vicious circle (see above) However I know I'm lacking on energy more than fitness.

folk saying you don't need salt seems weird.. maybe the day before i had too much salty food but not any more, most of it is now in my stinky clothes.

i definitely need salt in some form on a long ride

On salt. I remember when I used it 'normally' on my food probably every evening at teatime and post-Summer riding my riding tops used to be salt-lined/caked.

Now after a hot ride they don't 'salt up.

how little salt do you eat?

Normally? I add zero/use none at all. Only whats already present in the food I eat.

I always thought a certain amount of processed food in your diet has enough (I know theres enough Iron in processed etc isn't there?).

Might be that's not quite enough depending on what you're eating I guess.

Do you eat enough protein? I certainly realise now that I didnt for a long time.

I eat alot more veg than meat nowadays. Tend to eat chic peas, pasta, Brocolli, chicken, home made curry, Paella, etc.

folk saying you don't need salt seems weird.. maybe the day before i had too much salty food but not any more, most of it is now in my stinky clothes.
i definitely need salt in some form on a long ride

Additional salt is what was said a lot of food contains salt anyway which is often enough. You can have additional based on the food for example a bacon sarnie. Could be that Hora is not adding any salt during cooking so adding some into a food before a ride helps. If I do a big ride in the heat I'll crave salt on my food.

I've loaded on a fair bit of water sometimes and during a ride I can feel slightly 'not with it'/distant.

I bet thats water washing out essential salts (approaching hyponatremia?)..

Sheesh I feel like a hypochondriac reading the above..

I bet thats water washing out essential salts (approaching hyponatremia?)..

I can bet huge amounts of money it's not.

hydration tablets and such may benefit but for average Joe not massive benefit

Right. So Average Joe doesn't need extra electrolytes, but how do you define average? Most regular MTBers are much fitter than this Mr AJ and do far longer and harder work outs, so would that not put us in the category that does need electrolytes on say 7 hour rides in full hot summer weather?

I know if I do a long ride in the heat I get very thirsty and this doesn't seem to go away no matter how much water I drink. Only electrolyte drinks work. Is this so unreasonable? Speaking as one who doesn't eat much processed food...

and why doesn't a sweaty average person need electrolytes? i would have thought they'd need it even more..

because you get plenty in your normal diet - infact an excess. you have kidneys that are very good at regulating the electrolyte balance of your body.

having said that I do believe you can get a bit low sodium if you have a low salt diet and have sweated a lot. Its however much rarer than folk think

Mark, yesterday i had the following: -

Porridge, cake early on in the ride, tuna mayo at Fairholmes washed down with a can of coke. Plenty of water to drink throughout the ride. Big Mr Whippy ice cream straight after the ride with a bottle of water on the drive home.
Went to "2 for 1" pub for team and had steak and salad and steak and chips (my 2 meals). Was tired last night but fine this morning.

Think you need to eat and drink earlier on in the ride.

Great ride out by the way.

Think you need to eat and drink earlier on in the ride.

Yes, think I ate at 6.40am then again at 12.30(?).

You ****ing sweat buckets. Everytime you tipped your head/helmet forward it looked like a tarpaulin had been pressed up in a thunderstorm! 😆

Haha!! Thanks for that, forgot my strip of Buff for my headband......but yes i do, just the way i am!!

I know if I do a long ride in the heat I get very thirsty and this doesn't seem to go away no matter how much water I drink. Only electrolyte drinks work. Is this so unreasonable? Speaking as one who doesn't eat much processed food..

That was my experience from the weekend, but as well as using hydration tablets I also made a point of eating continually as well, never going for more than an hour without something. That is not something I have done in the past so this too may have explained why I was able to ride nearly twice as far as previously without that thirst at the end that won't go away. I think for the next long ride I will continue with the eating and carry the Nuun tablets as a back up.

And judging by the straps on my wingnut there was plenty of something washing out of me.

Molgrips and Jeffcakeshop TJ has given you the answer even though it was already answered. It will benefit you but not a huge amount and certainly not on just a jolly ride out. Yes maybe on a big epic big calorie burning day out it'll much more beneficial.

I know if I do a long ride in the heat I get very thirsty and this doesn't seem to go away no matter how much water I drink. Only electrolyte drinks work. Is this so unreasonable? Speaking as one who doesn't eat much processed food.

They help yes but not a massive benefit for most casual riding and foods contain salt anyway just processed they add way more than you would cooking at home.

Where can you find Wingnuts now? Last time I looked the company had gone bust?

Yes maybe on a big epic big calorie burning day out it'll much more beneficial

Isn't that what Hora had? If I am out for a 5 hour ride it's not tea and cakes, it's 5 hours of riding up big mountains as hard as I can.

Re salty food - if your kidneys filter out all the salt you don't need, then when it comes to a big ride you won't have that extra salt available will you? You won't have stored it..?

Just wondering how the system works that's all.

And it may well be that the typical western diet has far too much salt, but we're not all eating like that on here are we? Personal salt intake could vary a lot depending on how conscientious we are about our diets.

Isn't that what Hora had? If I am out for a 5 hour ride it's not tea and cakes, it's 5 hours of riding up big mountains as hard as I can.

You've answered that, he was out for a 5 hours which is jolly jaunt.

Re salty food - if your kidneys filter out all the salt you don't need, then when it comes to a big ride you won't have that extra salt available will you? You won't have stored it..?

You can carry food with you.

And it may well be that the typical western diet has far too much salt, but we're not all eating like that on here are we? Personal salt intake could vary a lot depending on how conscientious we are about our diets.

It's nice to look at averages.

He stopped for pie. Thus it can't be an epic ride.

Why would I not sweat alot? What makes people "not sweat"? I rode for 7 hours yesterday and found I wasnt really sweating. I drank about 3 bike bottles full of water though, what else would my body be using it for?

Well true, he did stop for a pie.

Average is no good in this case though - if half the country stuff their face on burgers, fries and pop tarts, and the other half are health food freaks, the average is meaningless.

What makes people "not sweat"?

Dunno, but some do sweat a lot more than others. The larger you are of course the more power you are generating to ride the same pace, and the less surface area you have relative to mass to use for cooling purposes.

Skinnier buggers should sweat less in theory.

5hours is enough. Anymore and it becomes a transporting your body from a to b in a form of willy waiving IMO.

5hours is enough. Anymore and it becomes a transporting your body from a to b in a form of willy waiving IMO.

Or it could be because you want to ride longer.

Average is no good in this case though - if half the country stuff their face on burgers, fries and pop tarts, and the other half are health food freaks, the average is meaningless.

Well it would be if that was the case but I'm sure it's not as even and as clear cut as that.

Would love to. hora junior is too much of a pull though

Would love to. hora junior is too much of a pull though

Yup kids do that I get out far less because of that but I do get away now, if I do get out for a ride other than evening spins the rule is I'm away as long as want. It's my escape time from work and kids so I ride as long as I can.

I bet thats water washing out essential salts (approaching hyponatremia?)..

More likely to be Hypokalemia than Hyponatremia, i.e. low potassium rather than low sodium, following excessive stress and exertion in the heat. If you must add salt to your food try going for one which is higher in Potassium and low in Sodium.

I used to suffer from the same symptoms as you for years, until I regularly starting using "re-hydration" salts (that contain a mixture of electrolytes), especially in the heat. Really worked for me. I use a combination of Torq and High Five Zeros, depending on the length of the ride.

Whilst there is a wealth of evidence to support the use of electrolytic supplementation everyone is different and what works for some doesnt for others. Which is really apparent looking at the previous posts on this thread.

Havenot read the thread so apologise if already mentioned, but get a protein powder to have a shake after and before bed, My Protein web site is amongst the best. It will work wonders.

Well it would be if that was the case but I'm sure it's not as even and as clear cut as that.

Obviously but I was making a point.

FieldMarshall makes a good point - electrolyte mixes are not only sodium of course - calcium and potassium as well which are not delivered in salt-enriched foods necessarily.

It will work wonders

Standard practice is 3:1 carbs/protein, not just protein. That's why recovery drinks are made this way.

FieldMarshall makes a good point - electrolyte mixes are not only sodium of course - calcium and potassium as well which are not delivered in salt-enriched foods necessarily.

No but they're found food products too.

So on a hot ride I'm supposed to stop half way and eat what? Pork pies? Salty banana milkshakes? Nuts?

Won't Torq work just as well and be easier on the stomach? 🙂

Dried fruit is pretty good for electrolytes, Pork pies are ace though and yup nuts are also good. Like I said lots of foods have the required items in.

Again I have only read the first post so apologies if this is a repeat but: Take in plenty of complex carbs before and during the exercise, and a recovery drink as soon as you get back followed as quickly as possible by a carb and protein rich main meal. Sounds to me like you are well hydrated but no more.

If riding for over an hour I tend to use energy drink (exactly that - a compex carb based energy drink not just a rehydration drink) at a varying concentration depending on how much I have eaten - so less for evening rides after dinner, more for weekend morning rides. Then, if it was a hard one, a recovery drink as soon as I return.

I only ride twice a week so could survive without this, but it makes a big difference to how I feel the next day. Without it I'm a moody git, with it I feel fine.

Pork pies are ace though

Yeah I'll stick with Torq cheers!

If riding for over an hour I tend to use energy drink (exactly that - a compex carb based energy drink not just a rehydration drink)

Drac - people here are convinced a sunday afternoon pootle needs all these fancy products - and having paid for them they convince themselves it works. Its fairly pointless to try to show folk they are wasting their money.

you don't know what mix of lengths of glucose polymer chains you are getting.

sounds like something read off the internet.
why would you want to know that? my understanding is that during exercise you want simple carbs anyway. complex carbs are required some time before, no?

I know TJ but I do try.

Someone I ride with had a minor heart attack because of potassium deficiency. That was diet related.

I found my general performance on 2+ hour rides was greatly improved by taking on carbs every 45 minutes/hour or so. I also feel alot better after the ride too. Nothing fancy here though. Water in the camelbak and nutrigrain elevenses do the job perfectly well.

people here are convinced a sunday afternoon pootle needs all these fancy products

You talking about me? Are my rides pootles?

Re potassium, could I eat plenty of bananas I.e keep it naturally?

Yup - you get plenty potassium in bananas -

Porridge, posh honey and bananas is lush.

Within 2 hours though I'm shaking with hunger (and this is at work!).

porridge doesn't work for me either.

if i eat a bucket full of the stuff, i can just about make it out of the door before i collapse with hunger.

maybe you are just a fat greedy bastard?

Yep. I also tried it last weekend. Within an hour I was shaking and had a lovely Porridge poo on the trailside abit later on 😯