[Closed] Dear Hope Technology,

To be fair to hope their customer service is probably the best around, but it has to be as no one would buy their products because it does keep breaking.

To be fair to hope their customer service is probably the best around, but it has to be as no one would buy their products because it does keep breaking.

My bikes must be freak examples - Hope parts are two headsets, two bottom brackets, four hubs, two sets of brakes, between 1 and 4.5 years old. Frequent riding in all weathers. Only thing that's been changed is brake fluid, pads and one disk because I wore it so thin.

That reminds me - must moan to Chris King because their ring drive lube freezes below -4 and it just spins out.

Wait a minute....

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I've had the same thing happen - half a brain and a quick google or search on stw told me it is a common problem so just sent the freehub back (and got a full new one by return post).

All the issues with Pro 2 are down to "progress". The innards of the old XC hub used to last a lot longer (my eldest kid is now running one that has just turned 19 years old) but(some)people wanted big diameter through axle hubs.

So the axle is bigger and everything else has to be packaged to suit. So the bearings are smaller, and leaf springs take up less space than the old coils. The only inexcusable bit is that it is now just a plastic face "seal" behind the freehub rather than a proper full radial contact seal - so the problem often begins with muck and moisture getting in. I don't like having to do it, but pulling the freehub off every few months and checking for broken springs / cleaning and lubing inside stops future major failures.

My bikes must be freak examples - Hope parts are two headsets, two bottom brackets, four hubs, two sets of brakes, between 1 and 4.5 years old. Frequent riding in all weathers. Only thing that's been changed is brake fluid, pads and one disk because I wore it so thin.

Lots of Hope stuff does last forever. I've never had any problems myself.

But, I worked in a bike shop for a couple of years that was a major Hope dealer and I did see a lot of kit being sent back. Mostly rear hubs. It's nice kit but it's not invincible. Then again, they're a pleasure to deal with.

QR could be too tight, causing premature wear?

Maybe you give your drivetrain a hard time..

maybe you are a samurai with the jetwash.. who knows.

Not wanting to side with the OP but... Hope hubs are okay but they aren't as bulletproof as people make out IME. I've had maybe ten sets of Pro2/Mono/Pro2 EVO now and maybe a third of them wore pretty quickly and needed their bearings replacing after less than a year. Not a big deal but there you go.

QR could be too tight, causing premature wear?

The QR does not load the freehub bearings - just the axle down the middle. My failure was with a bolt in ss hub.

I'm 99% certain my failure was fractured leaf spring(s) plus general muck and moisture trashing the freehub bearing - the problem bit is usually a bare needle roller in the middle that relies entirely on the (lack of) external sealing.

With a bit of care they are a good hub (we have 4 sets in the houshold).

Just flipping this round a bit:

Hope receive a hub that is broken. Takes a few minutes to fix and send back. job done.

Time taken to enter in to conversation/write to tell customer that shit happens/ bearings rubbish/you did not service it/many other unknown reasons* (delete as appropriate) takes as much time as it did to fix the issue.

Customer receives feedback and starts to talk/reply/converse with Hope.

Time is money for a small British industry that actually makes things. If you fix the issue and have a good rep for that then your name holds good. If you start to waste time on a multitude of non profitable work then you start to have to cut margins in actually making stuff. Downwards spiral and ffffffut there goes another manufacturer. I think that they have got the balance right and you can still phone them to see if the guy doing the repairs even thought to investigate why it happened.

just a thought....

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I can answer this!

Commercial bearings are type tested. This means they are made in very high numbers, and only a percentage are taken out and tested. in short, this keeps bearing costs down. They fail sometimes, and not all bad bearings can be caught at the manufacturing stage.

So basically, it happens, get over it.

And before you suggest they should use better bearings, no bearing company tests every single commercial bearing they manufacture, maybe the one offs they make for special projects, otherwise your hope hubs would cost a few hundred pounds more.

Mick r

Thanks for your tendered explanation. Your theory does make sense, I guess. Trouble is that if that is the true reason this free hub disintegrated in such a short time, it makes their product far less attractive to someone who wants a degree of long term durability between servicing, or bearing replacements.

Maybe think yourself lucky?

A mate had a similar issue with a pro 2 Evo that came on the back of a brand new Alpine 160 and ended up paying LBS to replace bearings as neither vendor, Orange, nor Hope apparently wanted to look at warrantying it and claimed fair wear and tear. Again on a sub six month old bike...

Will balance that though that apart from a cracking freehub on a very old and sh pro 2 my experience of Hope hubs has been excellent.

Bearings are consumables, most manufacturers give 3 months warranty. Anything more is goodwill gesture.

"Trouble is that if that is the true reason this free hub disintegrated in such a short time"

See, this is your problem, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
The free hub didn't disintegrate, did it.
Two of the bearings in side failed.
Hope offered to warrenty it, you unlaced the wheel (?) and sent them the whole hub not just the free hub.
They replaced a load of stuff for free fedex'd back to you for free and you are still not happy.
You wonder why they haven't replied to you?
Because they have figured out that nothing they say will make you happy.

[i]Trouble is that if that is the true reason this free hub disintegrated in such a short time, it makes their product far less attractive to someone who wants a degree of long term durability between servicing, or bearing replacements. [/i]

You're relying on the law of averages making it so it's not you twice.

At least you can service a Hope freehub - when Shimano ones fail it's often cheaper to buy a whole hub than just the freehub.

In my experience it's the freehub to hub body seals that are the weak link on Hope hubs. It also depends on what the soil is like where you ride. New Forest sand is very fine and seems to get past those seals particularly quickly. Rebuilds are an annual occurance for any bike used regularly through a New Forest winter.
Hope's customer service is very good but they appear to prefer not to waste time getting into debates.

daveatextremistsdotcouk - Member
That reminds me - must moan to Chris King because their ring drive lube freezes below -4 and it just spins out.

Strip the hub and fill it with oil as recommended by CK for subzero use.

Mostly Balanced : No need to replace the oil, you just need lots of incontinent friends able to pee on the hub to make it work again.

I offered to help only once on the ride that it happened on, but the rest of it was too funny. At the start all I had heard about was why I was riding my geared bike in the snow and not a far more suitable single speed with the superior CK hub. Now I had obviously forgotten that and never mentioned it again. Much..... 😀

Yes Manton, I learned the oil lesson the hard way. We'd all been in the pub a couple of hours for our Christmas curry whilst the temperature outside dropped. My CK wasn't the only hub to freeze but being by far the most costly I got the most grief and the most offers of liquid help from beered up mates.

My pro2 pawl springs disintegrated after 7 years of abuse, I was outraged.!

I've said this before but if you ever visit the Hope factory and see the mind-boggling amount of stuff lying around in trays waiting to be assembled you'll understand why it's really no skin off their noses to nip down and grab a couple of spare seals or bearings or whatever. They are big enough not to need to worry and still small enough to be able to do the small un-productive jobs.

My freehub has cracked after 2 years use I told them laSt week they said they'd replace it. Can't argue with that really

OP, I've had this problem as you know (I posted my link on your previous thread), and I'm yet to return my freehub to Hope, but it will be going soon. I hope (no pun intended) that they warranty as quick as they did yours, although to get out riding I have bought and fitted a new one, but having a spare would be good!

One thing I've learnt is to service more often. You tend to forget about the freehub until its too late, but having bought the right tools to seal it properly I shall be removing them from both my bikes every few months to clean and lightly lube up, hopefuly by doing this I will get many years use out of them, but should they fail and it's a genuine warranty issue, as opposed to poor maintenance I'm sure Hope will look after me.

Also, I get to keep an eye on the main hub bearings too, and spot any problems before they get beyond a minor service.

I used to have to deal with customers, and one thing that is super annoying is this perception they have a right to an "explanation" for everything. No, you [i]might[/i] have a right (although touch and go) to a replacement wear part like a bearing or whatever, but they don't have to explain themselves to you. It's not school.

Bearing in hub failed, hub fixed free of charge. End of story. No explanation or further discussion needed. And definitely not yet another internet moan on the site. Jesus wept, STW seems full of this shit these days.

If you need to vent your feelings in writing, use a notebook.

My problem is that I don't want a hub that fails in less than 5 months. It's no use to me, so I want to know why it failed then we all know where we are. If they don't want to tell me then I can't force them, but I'd suggest that that behaviour stretches the goodwill between them and an already disappointed customer. It's not an isolated early failure, there are other folk on here who have experienced the same thing.

You are all consumers of these products.

Are you saying you are happy buying stuff that is not fit for purpose and breaks early?

I've Hope hubs on two of my bikes, on the road bike I've done around 20,000Km, in 2 years no servicing and it's are fine. On my hardtail I've done 1600Km in 9 months. Again no servicing and it's fine.

The above is anecdotal evidence as is yours and both are essentially meaningless. Without knowing the number of freewheel hubs sold and the number of returns it's not possible to know if the unit is fit for purpose or not. Even the best production facility will have a percentage of returns. Products have a MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure), it doesn't mean that *every* single unit of that product will last that long and some will last a lot longer. If there were any systematic problem with the units then Hope would be issuing a recall.

With MTB products there's also the difference a rider can make - we all know people who are for whatever reason hard on their gear while others hardly ever seem to break anything.

Are any other make of hubs more durable or without problems?

Makes mental note never to sell anything to billyboy, unless I suddenly possess the actual moon on a stick, and then decide to sell it.

It's no use to me, so I want to know why it failed then we all know where we are. If they don't want to tell me then I can't force them

I know why it failed. It failed because as a lot of people have said 'shit happens' What do you want from Hope apart from an explanation? You've had spot on service FFS!
Your'e getting on my wick now you are.

He IS a special boy is'nt he?(I got told off for calling someone a dick earlier but seeing as he's already been called a fanny I reckon I'd be ok....).
Although if I hear

My problem is that I don't want a hub that fails in less than 5 months

I think you said in your other thread that you found the problem after a month of creaking noises. That might explain why the axle was knackered and the bearings shredded rather than a bit notchy.

For what it's worth, some things do just fail early. It's why reviews sometimes include a 'we had a problem but there are no obvious reasons for it and no one else has had one' comments. Anecdotal evidence here suggests hope freehub bearings going (at least to that degree) is not a widespread problem. Hope have fixed your problem, so only if it happens again would I suggest you remount your high horse and go demanding answers.

I'm on my second set of wheels with Hope Pro 2 hubs, the first set last 5 years without a problem at all and I also have a set of 8 year old M4 brakes on my bike that have performed faultlessly over that time.

Hope make good stuff that lasts IME, if for some reason something doesn't then their warranty service is second to none, what's your issue with having used the service?

Big deal something failed it happens get over it they basically gave you a new hub for nothing.

I've had my Hope Pro 2 hubs since 2007. The bearings have been replaced both front & rear once. The abuse they've endured includes full submersion in Mendip Hills mud on many occasions, jet washes and a shockingly neglectful lack of care or maintenance by myself. I have to say as a 'fit and forget' component that does its job well they've been legendary - I was under the impression Hope service and warranties were up there as well.

stuff that is not fit for purpose and breaks early

I think the general consensus is that Hope have sorted you out even when the failed item is classed as a consumable and you appear to be trying to create ill feeling.
Suck it up buttercup.

They would not tell you even if they knew its the way of the world.Going back bit brought a new 1987 Honda CR125 motorcrosser seized while I was running it in.Only had 30mins use.It turns out the tooling for the barrels were out so they were made oval.World wide problem Honda never admitted it but got a new barrel under warranty but took some hassle.Yet this was a very common problem that year.I was luckier than some they had gearbox problems as well.Only time this problem was mentioned was in a mx magazine two years later.The 1988 bike was brill.

Not fit for purpose? Hope sell 60,000+ sets of hubs a year, I think if most were breaking then they'd do something about it pronto.

Bearings are made by a 3rd party, INA. not Hope, they are top quality stainless units. some fail, most don't. All they can do is replace any genuine warranty items no questions asked, which is what they do.

It seems you have some sort of beef with Hope, nothing they'd have done would make you happy.

My problem is that I don't want a hub that fails in less than 5 months. It's no use to me, so I want to know why it failed then we all know where we are. If they don't want to tell me then I can't force them, but I'd suggest that that behaviour stretches the goodwill between them and an already disappointed customer. It's not an isolated early failure, there are other folk on here who have experienced the same thing.

For gods sake man, what is wrong with you? Either ring them and ask, sell the now fixed wheel with new internals (selling point) and buy a different brand or stfu and get on with using the thing.

[i]'that behaviour stretches the goodwill between them and an already disappointed customer.'[/i] I fear for you if you have to deal with most other companies.

If Hope were making shoddy goods and pulling the wool over the customer's eyes then they'd soon go out of business. Since they have seen near continuous growth suggests that this is not the case.

I've had one occasion to ring Hope about a "faulty" product: I've one of the early Vision 2 bike lights and about a year ago it would keep cutting out seemingly at random, I could then turn the unit back on and it would work OK for a varying amount of time before cutting out again. The unit was several years out of warranty so I rang Hope (on a Saturday):

"I've a faulty Vision 2 but not sure if it's light or battery, how do I get it back to you?"

"How old is it?"

"About five years I think"

"Have a look down the end of the battery lead, is there a split across the internal pin?"

"Yes"

He then described what the problem was and how to fix it and avoid shorting the battery. Since then it's worked fine and just as importantly I know how to deal with the problem should it arise again. Some firms would have said "Send it in, we'll have a look at it and it's a £50 standard fee plus parts".

Customer service is usually the first thing to be cut when a firm is looking to cut costs. If Hope were having huge numbers of units being returned then they couldn't afford to offer the service they do, it would bankrupt them. From that you can only assume that they have very few returns.

[quote=Nobeerinthefridge ]Makes mental note never to sell anything to billyboy, unless I suddenly possess the actual moon on a stick, and then decide to sell it. 😆

Billyboy, whilst everyone else runs around it a tizzy looking for their high horses, I'm going to attempt to answer your question in a logical manner.....
Firstly, take a look at this pic:
[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7495/15610835974_957ca102fd_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7495/15610835974_957ca102fd_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_atkin/15610835974/ ]Hope bearing[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/peter_atkin/ ]PeterPoddy[/url], on Flickr

The 2 bearings on the left are from a Hope XC hub. The front uses 2 of them, the rear 4, all the same size. This is the older, obsolete, hub form when Hope produced a different hub for each application. So, in the QR XC hub they could use nice fat bearings. They lasted years. I love them. I still use them in preference to the newer stuff.
The 4 bearings on the right are Pro 2 rear hub bearings. (There is one more of a different size that I don't have, sorry, but it's a bit bigger than the 2 small ones) The rear uses 5 bearings of 3 different sizes. As you can see these are nowhere near as chunky as the older XC bearings. This is why they fail, and I think the ones that you had fail are those small weedy ones there....
Why do they use these bearings?
So instead of making different hubs for different applications, one hub will do anything with a simple change of adaptor. This is partly because we have so many different standards these days, and partly a cost saving exercise with those standards in mind.
But as you can see, there's no doubt bearing longevity is compromised.
Also, add in alloy axles and general lightweight constuction and things can easily snap/disintegrate/fail/bend etc. There's a price to pay for lightweight, multi use hubs, basically.

I'm tough on hubs and wheels in general. I can break anything. XC hubs last longer, which is why I still use them. I've had 5 Pro 2 hubs and only one of them has had the supplied bearings last more than a year. They snap pawl springs too. And one on my wife's bike had the spoke flange crack off. And the only one I have left (front) won't retain its adapter circlip as the edge of the channel it sits in has cracked off.
The newer Hope hubs are crap. They don't last. They're the most problematic hub I know of. (Save cheapo OEM ones)
I had the choice of any hub I wanted to build a new set of touring wheels on. I could have used the Hope XC hubs I was already using again. But I didn't. I went for the toughest most reliable hub I could think of. Shimano XT.......

Hope than answers your question. 🙂

My problem is that I don't want a hub that fails in less than 5 months

I think it was a fluke. You know what a fluke is, don't you?

Given the number of people who are saying their hubs lasted well...

[quote=scotroutes ]Nobeerinthefridge  » Makes mental note never to sell anything to billyboy, unless I suddenly possess the actual moon on a stick, and then decide to sell it.

Also on my no sell or buy from list

I think it was a fluke

Even when the post just above yours proves it isn't? 🙂

[quote=PeterPoddy ]proves it isn't? Get over yourself. As many previous posts show, there are loads of folk on this forum perfectly happy with the performance and reliability of their Hope hubs. Yours is just another opinion.

You proved that the bearings are small, and less durable than XC, but you didn't prove that they are only expected to last 5 months.

We are talking about pro 2 yes? The same ones I've had on my bikes for 7 years trouble free?