[Closed] Dark side: just not worth the agro

After six years of near-misses cycling out of London, some malicious, some not I too have opted for the simple life and have given up road cycling.

but only by confronting them with their behaviour can you hope to change it

Like freeagent, I've also started using a rear flasher in the day time. I'm not a road bike ninja dressed in black like many are, but you can never be too visible.

Take the point on lights and I do the same. This particular incident wasn't nothing to do with lights though. This was an entitled, arrogant, reckless idiot with zero regard for other road users and a "me first at any cost" attitude. Society doesn't accept that behaviour in any other context, yet behind the wheel of a dangerous machine it's all too readily tolerated.

I try my hardest not to react as – to completely generalise your average driver – a large number are either, a) completely unaware of their bad driving, or b) are aware but don’t give a ****.

Commuting involves as much paths/offroad/quiet residential estates for me as I can find. I’ll never own another road bike.

And lights: Exposure Trace/TraceR lights always on flash during daytime for the bits of road I can't avoid.

Had a 20km road spin yesterday to the bike shop. Didn't experience any frighteningly dangerous incidents, just a couple of inconsiderately close passes.

This is unusual, I usually average one really bad incident per ride.

I always raise the issue with drivers where possible. Taking the "it's not worth arguing" approach dehumanises drivers in the same way that we complain they don't see cyclists as real people.

Flash you're right but the driving was so terrible I really wanted to try to persuade them to think on it before they do actually kill someone. A pointless exercise though, you're absolutely right.

Just sometimes it does work & is worth it, sadly very rarely though 🙁

GavinB-

I used to live around Manchester for a decade, until moving to Aberdeenshire a few years ago.

I think location is important. Riding through Leeds years ago was a bit of a lottery with my life to be fair (looking back).
Although Aberdeen is a smaller city i also feel a whole lot safer cycling through it.
That being said though, I still prefer to get out on the road bike early in the morning to avoid traffic, or put the bike on the car and head out to the country for a loop on some quiet country roads.
I think the OP was unlucky here, I can see how it would make someone think twice about riding on the road. Do what you think us best, but don't quit road riding because of some knob in his car.

Just to give an example, I was cycling through the suburbs the other week, on a nice sunny Sunday afternoon, when a Volvo estate towing a long caravan overtook me just as I was going onto a mini-roundabout at about 22mph.

The driver then began cutting back in as the car passed me, to avoid a car coming in the opposite direction and perhaps misjudging my speed. I had to swerve into a handily placed bus stop to avoid being side-swiped.

I sprinted the next 400m and cut in front of the driver at the next roundabout, telling him loudly what he'd just done and explaining that overtaking on mini-roundabouts was a bad idea, that he should remember he's towing a huge caravan and that "not seeing me" was not an adequate excuse because if he really hadn't seen me he would have rear-ended me in the first place.

The man and his wife, both in their 70s I'd guess, were genuinely shaken up and apologetic and I told them forcefully that wasn't enough and he had to take more care around cyclists in future. I honestly think he will.

Traffic was assembling behind as we had this exchange, and the driver in the car right behind leaned out his window and said "well done mate" as I headed off for a sit down to let the adrenaline subside.

Can't give up riding on the road as it's how I get to work. Never really been into road riding for pleasure though, it's just boring, interspersed with annoying. So glad to have found a route home from work, where for about 3/4 of the ride I see only 1 or 2 cars. Not easy to do round here!

member - captainflasheart
The lanes and surrounding countryside side, however.....

I am there on Monday night...got a spare bike?

Meh. I've been riding on the road all my life and I have no intention of stopping now. Commuting, touring, shopping, social visits etc all done by bike. Rarely get any problems, just let the anger go if I do.

I've not ridden the road bike since last February, and that was a 5am Sunday morning special to avoid traffic. It's not any one instance that has put me off, just a constant grind of low-level aggression, impatience, and lack of consideration. Occasionally I feel like heading out on tarmac again, I do still like most things about road riding, apart from the cars. But then I think about negotiating the clogged-up routes out of town, and the big roads over the tops with people buzzing you at 60mph, and the dead-eyed faces of all the drivers who couldn't give a shit if you live or die, and I get on an MTB instead to sneak about the quietest back lanes linking up the trails.

Obviously I'll go back to it again sooner or later, I always do, but I can totally understand people not wanting to risk their necks dicing with the 1 in 100 idiots who would rather see you dead than give you a sliver of time and space at the edge of 'their' road. Oh well.

Interesting.

I live in SW London & my local beat is Richmond Park - getting there is no dramas (mostly) & once in the park it's pretty much hassle free. You get the odd idiot who thinks its a rat run, but it's also really quite easy to drop them if you feel the need!

Outside of the park on the roads out....I don't bother....large groups might be safer, they say.... but I feel more at threat if I'm in a gang. Not just from the motorists but also from the lack of road craft & skill of a surprising number of cyclists!

If I want a long road ride I'll load up the car & get out of town. Fortunately I can do a couple of hrs easy on the MTB from my door in the park, Wimbledon Common & the towpath.

Single track is no more than 40mins away - Tunnel Hill, Swinley etc..

But yeah, I get how some might be scared off it.

Kind of makes me more determined to ride on the road!

definatley report it.

but tales of lots of close passes is not my experience - and i'm local too. There are these idiots you meet once in a while - i like to think of them as the sort of people who pick a fight in a pub. they're agressive and i want nothing to do with them.

don't let their anger spoil your day.

I ride a fair amount of road in the New Forest, for the most part it is very safe. In fact I rode that exact junction about 7am on the Sat that rider was killed. Very confused as to how someone could get hit there....

Just avoid going out on the roads, unless you have to, when it is very busy and tempers start to flare with car drivers. That's when you find there is noticeably more close / dangerous passes. There are also certain roads (like the main one through Totton to Roger Penny) that seem to encourage idiot overtakes as drivers think the road is wide enough when it isn't really. I had a very close pass by an audi driver as he overtook and then realised the car on the other lane was also overtaking a cyclist. A mile or so further on, the car was parked in a layby and the guy got out of the car. I was fully expecting road rage / get lamped and it turns out he was mortified at what he'd done, apologised lots and was really glad I was okay

Sounds like you need to move to North Yorkshire.
Had one close pass in recent memory (12 months) from some utter ****hat in a Defender, on a blind bend with a double solid line down the middle (which he didn't cross, admittedly)... didn't touch me, didn't slow down. Didn't really affect me other than making me think "c**t".

I just got on with my ride, and enjoyed the rest of it.

Drivers seem a lot more accepting/forgiving/tolerant of other road users around me. But then I'm mostly a car driver myself and so long as there are no Peugeots in the vicinity, driving standards are mostly very good.

I love road riding around here, but it is quite quiet, and very popular with cyclist from around the area (say 25 mile radius)... Also lots of tractors and other agricultural vehicles... never really know what's around the next corner and 99% of people seem to drive with that in mind 🙂

Jeeze.

I want to know where you lot ride so I can avoid it 🙄

Get on your bikes, find somewhere nice to ride and go bust a lung. Plenty of areas without this "angst" you lot encounter, or seem to encounter.

Or definitely give road riding up.. Golf maybe a good choice.

What BikeBouy said.

Two golden rules of this life:

a) There are arseholes everywhere
b) Everyones in an intolerant rush

Just bear those in mind and all will be well.

There are arseholes everywhere

This. I remember riding past Gisburn forest a few years ago on a road bike, a car coming the other way with mountain bikes on the back drove straight towards me, forcing me to ride in the gutter as it was a single lane road, and the driver gave me the finger.

bikebouy - Member
Jeeze.

I want to know where you lot ride so I can avoid it

Get on your bikes, find somewhere nice to ride and go bust a lung. Plenty of areas without this "angst" you lot encounter, or seem to encounter.

Or definitely give road riding up.. Golf maybe a good choice.

Being nearly flattened by a horse box and actually being hit by a couple of cars is enough to start putting me off, it's not angst it's a fact that in a collision between a bike and car you're lucky if you walk away.
I drive all over the country and see plenty of awful driving, it's just more crowded in places.
You can poke your golf sticks.

Just bear those in mind and all will be well.

Yeah, erm, unless one of those intolerant arseholes actually runs you over, like. It does happen, and that's what puts me off road riding, ultimately. There's a [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-35291159 ]ghost bike[/url] a mile or so from my house, I drive past it on the way to work every day, the guy who was killed was deliberately knocked off his bike by an angry driver.

Just dismissing these concerns like that is a bit shitty, really. People are genuinely scared for their skins, maybe don't belittle that very real fear with thinly-veiled advice to just MTFU?

Just dismissing these concerns like that is a bit shitty, really. People are genuinely scared for their skins, maybe don't belittle that genuine fear with thinly-veiled advice to just MTFU?

+1

Try to show a bit more empathy guys, you'll feel better for it I promise.

Just to swim against the tide of the idea that the Police are overworked, my neighbour, who cycles with us, is a PC and he complains that most shifts are boring and very little happens especially at night. So in the light of this gem I don't hesitate to let the Police know and we have recently reported a drug dealer who was parking in our street; we haven't seen him since then. We have also dealt with yobs and scooter raggers in our street, none of whom we have seen since as they have been served with ABCs and the scooter kids with Section 59 warnings, so it works.

Depends heavily on where and when you ride. I've ridden a fair bit in Hampshire and Surrey although I don't live there. I've done big 60 mile rides from Basingstoke and hardly seen a soul. Some of my best road rides were done down there. But also some absolutely shite roads around towns especially at rush hour.

I plan road rides mainly based on how much traffic there'll be and how angry it'll be. I won't ride at rush hour given the choice. I may head out on the A469 today, but I'll have to be out before about 3.30 otherwise I'll need to choose a different route because it's windy and has speedy rush hour gits on it.

Depends where you are. Riding the roads around Glasgow I get very few problems. I avoid one or two roads though. There were two cyclist killed on a 1 mile stretch of the A82 in 2016 - one on my avoid list - fast dual carriageway with bends and heavy traffic.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/cyclist-58-dies-after-being-9483663

http://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/police-identify-cyclist-killed-road-11844931

I haven't commuted for a little while by bike due to some close passes and general aggro for having the audacity to want to cycle on a road.

It's really sad because I love cycling and travelling into a city centre in rush hour is quicker than using my car, free, great for my health and kick starts my day just lovely. But I just can't be bothered with it at the moment.

Depends where you are. Riding the roads around Glasgow I get very few problems. I avoid one or two roads though. There were two cyclist killed on a 1 mile stretch of the A82 in 2016 - one on my avoid list - fast dual carriageway with bends and heavy traffic.

I do ride on the roads plenty though, and recently have found the police to be quite responsive - even arresting and questioning someone when no other witnesses could be found. Previously though I've found some police to very unhelpful, hopefully this is a change rather than just luck of the draw.

I think it helps that there are more cyclists, it's becoming normalised.

Don't do much on road these days, unless I'm in a hurry or don't want to turn up covered in mud.Longtime roadie, but I always avoided Friday afternoons, because the cars seemed even less patient and even more hostile.
Still, it pushed me into getting into the local hills on my ancient rockhopper,I've not really looked back, bought a modern hardtail and do all my leisure/fitness rides on it now. I enjoy avoiding the passes, smidsy's and dgaf attitudes that seemed to be happening more often in the last couple of years.

definitely worth the agro today

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Thank goodness for quiet North Cheshire lanes. I don't commute but rarely have too much bother. Or maybe my numpty filter is set differently. My friend took me on a 30 mile ride mostly on cyclepaths and it felt quite odd to me, almost as if it was cheating.

Big respect for those of you commuting by bike, I work from home do all I can to avoid riding at rush hour.

It's nothing new though, I know an ex roadie who went all Vinnie Jones on a drivers leg with his car door for endangering him. The ex roadie is in his eighties now and is only an ex roadie due to recent health issues.

Weirdly I find commuting in London a totally different experience. I must have ridden thousands of miles over the years on cheap single speeds around town and never once felt unsafe, other than the one occasion that a Ped staring at his phone and listening only for motorised traffic walked out in front of me.

Somehow missed this thread earlier, OP are we talking about the descent down https://www.strava.com/segments/3467265 ?

That isn't narrow, not if you compare it to Sailor's Lane just to the west of it, or Harvesting Lane. It's become my favourite safe way of leaving my South Downs rides in recent weeks.

But that "punishment pass" doesn't sound good at all! 👿

I've only experienced one numpty motor incident this summer up in the South Downs, with a white van speeding towards and past me me on the narrow Dundridge Lane.

On the flip side, I had a couple in a van help me out on Friday afternoon, when I understeered into the hedge on a the downhill right sweeper at the start of http://www.strava.com/segments/2751753 . Gave me some wipes for my wounds before I carried on, determined to complete the mission of ascending http://www.strava.com/segments/1239654 for the first time (one of very few cat3 climbs around here).

scotroutes - Member
I hire out bikes to tourists from all over the world - including the Dutch and Danish. Almost without exception they tell us how courteous the drivers in the Highlands and Islands are.

That's true, with maybe 3 exceptions.

Don't be on the Ullapool road when the Stornoway ferry comes in. There's a continuous stream of Formula 1 cars (cunningly disguised as trucks, vans and Audis) with alcohol fueled drivers jostling for the opportunity to be first to Inverness. But it's only a matter of pulling over for about 10 minutes and all the idiots are past you. Or if you're heading towards Ullapool near ferry departure time, beware of latecomers. No risk is too great to avoid missing the ferry.

The north side of Loch Ness is a deathtrap. The last 2 times I have ridden on it, I was forced off the road, once (into a stone lined ditch) and the other the fabric of my jacket was brushed at the elbow by a wing mirror.

There is a new risk too. The North Coast 500 route seems to be a race track. Most drivers are ok, but a lot of it is single lane roads and many drivers haven't a clue how to behave on them. The difficulty on a bike is if there's often a drop off the edge and no deviation possible, so evasive action could go badly wrong. It's one of the reasons I like 2.35" tyres on my road bike because I can safely go off the edge in a way I couldn't with a 23mm. However the problem there is more likely tourist drivers than locals so it will be seasonal.

No* agro off road. Nice and chilled. Not a soul to be seen for miles in some cases. No traffic and fumes.

Doesn't have to be all gnar trail smashing off road (though it is fun). Can do mile munching also.

* - well the odd argument with a ranting walker, but it's rare. Tow paths are the main place where there's hassle and usually down to a tut or jump out of the way with a dirty look for daring to use a bell well in advance.

Just as a counterpoint, a mate and I were out on a regular road ride last week and actually had the conversation about how it gets annoying when drivers are so courteous that they sit behind you for a couple of km's waiting for a safe place to overtake.. no leaning on the horn, no angry close pass when they eventually get round you, just a good safe distance and sometimes a wave.

Living in Peebles is ace.. the chances of being overtaken by a driver who isn't also a bike rider must be orders of magnitude less then anywhere else in the country..

Epic - slightly ironically as the OP of his thread, the NC500 is on my list for next year. What time of year is best avoided - July and August? Was thinking early June for my trip up there.