[Closed] Cyclists suing the CPS

What would happen if private cyclists, clubs, and charities like Sustrans, BC, and Cycling UK banded together and launched a class action lawsuit against a CPS every time they failed to prosecute to the furthest extent of the law?

Sue them for what, exactly?

In civil terms, I'm not sure how you'd quantify the loss to another private cyclist or a body like sustrans caused by the criminal killing of another cyclist.

You could attempt to initiate a private prosecution of the motorist involved if the case is dropped by the CPS, but there are number of significant hurdles to cross to get that into court.

In criminal terms, you might try to launch a private prosecution alleging misconduct in public office on the part of the public servant who declined to prosecute, but I can't see that getting anywhere, unless you could demonstrate some kind of corruption or wilfulness on the part of the individual making the decision.

In terms of the case above, it's been dealt with by the courts, probably in line with sentencing guidelines. If guidelines obviously haven't been followed, you could argue it was an 'overly lenient' sentence and try to get it reviewed, but that doesn't happen often.

I’m talking in cases where there really does seem to be an egregious miscarriage of justice in the form of serious undersentencing

"seem" is the operative word.

I don't see how you could have legal point based on that, let alone how a class action would be competent.

A wholesale review of the law is what is needed, perhaps that could be campaigned for

There definitely needs to be a review of sentencing guidelines, especially when it comes to driving bans (for what it’s worth, I don’t think mandatory life sentences for causing death by dangerous driving will be an effective deterrent, but am willing to be persuaded).

Effective traffic policing would help dealing with anybody driving before it gets to the point of collision, mind you. While I’m conscious the police have limited resource, if the numbers I’ve seen suggesting there are 600k-1.2m unlicensed or uninsured drivers on the road are correct, people must have a reasonable belief they won’t get caught, and there’s been a lot of crap driving about since lockdown.

There’s a national survey in behalf of the Association of Police & Crime Commissioners here

There need to be a differentiator between dangerous driving and dangerous driving leading to a death. In the eyes of the law dangerous driving is dangerous driving and whether the driver ended up in a ditch or hit a cyclist on the way to the ditch is all the same.
Saying that, dangerous driving (i.e deliberately driving dangerously and potentially endangering others) should be treated more seriously)

IMO we need at least one of 2 things

1 Definition of acceptable driving standard (highway code's not perfect but could be reviewed and it'd do as a start) needs to be established so that it can be enforced.
2 Juries need to be removed form driving cases.

Driver behaves in a particular way - what does the highway code say and what would happen if they did that thing in a driving test. No need to ask a jury (half of whom are probably on their mobiles in the court, never mind while driving) whether certain behaviour is dangerous; ask a driving examiner or similarly qualified individual.

Simple questions, minimal opportunity for mitigation: Was their driving shit? Did somebody die? Go to sentencing

Juries need to be removed form driving cases.

Magistrates are just as capable of giving excessively lenient bans though.

Sorry, was taking as read that sentencing needs beefing up - and was picturing Molgrips' scenario of dead cyclist which presumably would be a judge sitting

Since we're here though:

Longer bans (not fines) as a rule and requirement for a written report, justifying themselves to be submitted for publication when any official allows continuation of driving when points exceed the ban threshold. No option for continuation if offence is a repeat (nth speeding offence or whatever; that's failure to learn from experience and a warning flag to the system)

Driving while banned - immediate & permanent seizure of vehicle, regardless of ownership
Uninsured, untaxed - first offence, immediate seizure with return when "error" rectified. Further offences, permanent seizure

Police should receieve either a proportion of fines or, better, ringfenced money for policing of road standards

Anyone can appeal a sentence for being too lenient, that's a route that could be explored

IANAL but I think the best we could legally do in terms of charging offences would be to seek a judicial review of CPS decisions.

Think the key change needed is presumed liability.

Think the key change needed is presumed liability.

I don't personally believe that, if someone is driving so badly that they are likely to hit someone, the fact that their no claims bonus would take a knock after the impact will affect their driving in any way

There need to be a differentiator between dangerous driving and dangerous driving leading to a death. In the eyes of the law dangerous driving is dangerous driving and whether the driver ended up in a ditch or hit a cyclist on the way to the ditch is all the same.

like the offence of dangerous driving (maximum of 2 years in prison) vs death by dangerous driving (max 14 years in prison) which already exists?

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/dangerous-driving/

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/causing-death-by-dangerous-driving/

@scaredypants A lot of that sounds very pragmatic. I believe the police are asking for increased power of seizure?

Mandatory dash cams, like black boxes fitted in new cars would help fight against people getting off by being untruthful to the authorities

Think the key change needed is presumed liability.

I genuinely don't see how it will improve driving standards. All it will do is make it slightly easier to prove your case in a civil claim. If the Police and CPS don't investigate or charge people now, presumed liability won't change that basic underlying problem.

I've said it before so I'll say it again. Automatic, no excuses, 1 month driving ban at 12 points, with your job protected. Use your holiday entitlement or unpaid leave if you really can't get to work. I don't care if your kids can't get to rugby practice and granny can't get to her dialysis - that is what it means to have no car.

If you get to 12 points again, 3 months ban, no excuses, I don't care if you lose your job.

And I have no problem with the Police being funded by traffic fines - including those from cyclists who break the law.

I have no problem with the Police being funded by traffic fines – including those from cyclists who break the law.

This. Ring-fencing of fines is probably about the only way roads policing will get adequate funding.

kerley
Free Member

Saying that, dangerous driving (i.e deliberately driving dangerously and potentially endangering others) should be treated more seriously)

Yup, this. IMO broadly speaking the penalties for Dangerous, are more or less what should apply to Careless. But it's not just about penalties this, in fact it's almost all attitude. Penalties aren't an effective deterrant when people think they don't apply, and what really causes careless and many incidents of dangerous driving, is just people thinking it's OK to drive without giving a shit.

The jury thing is also a part of the same problem- people presented with cases of really bad driving think "yeah well I could have done that too" or "just an accident". The problem isn't the jury, it's that attitude, the fix is for the juror to see bad driving and go "that's bad driving, I wouldn't do that" rather than "that's completely understandable"

I wrote off a car a couple of years ago. I was absolutely mortified, it was a semi-understandable thing but even so it was no accident, I made a big mistake and hit another car. But just about everyone went "oh it happens" and "poor you". The police didn't even turn up. Insurance just paid out. The only consequence was some sore ribs and a trivial increase in my premiums. I took it seriously but just about everything else said "just one of those things, forget about it"

Obviously, not an easy thing to fix. But anything else is sticking plasters.

The problem is, people drive carelessly/ dangerously quite a lot, and never get caught, so it becomes normal. They only get caught when it goes disastrously wrong.