[Closed] "Cyclists racing into debt to own top bikes"

No.

I'm lucky enough to have enough cash to buy bikes when I want to if I don't go crazy. So I don't go crazy.

Did C2W one year. Wow, that was annoying...

I thought C2W was a great way for STW'ers to by their CX bikes (that'll rarely be locked up at their work) on the cheap.

Why annoying? Were you the organiser?

Did it once when I first stated riding again. Spent £2.5k on a road bike and an MTB, paid it off over a year on a 0% credit card. Since then I've always paid up front, except on C2W.

Since then, The Fun Police have limited my bike purchasing/upgrading to something every 18 months, no more than 3 bikes at a time, and my tastes have got cheaper. Due something new next year. Torn between a blunted Day One commuter, a 29er, a proper CX or a dream audax build, either Enigma or Mason.

I need a lot of brownie points in the next year!

I found C2W a breeze with Evans. Shame HMRC were the last employer in the ****ing country to set up a scheme 👿

Way back in '94 I spent my student loan on a shiny new Cannondale, and I've had a CTW bike but other than that all bike stuff has been bought with cash monies, saved up for if its too much to afford straight away.
I can see the argument for using credit to buy a decent commuting bike if you can't afford it up front, as it's a mode of transport that you need to earn money so to speak but a bike that's only used for pleasure?

£300 to replace their bikes? I'd hardly call that racing into debt. Unless they are replacing them on a weekly basis.

Why annoying?

By the time I'd got charged a mark-up by the shop, filled in the paperwork, then changed jobs, had to pay the balance and was still getting wheedling emails years later demanding another $30 to finally own a bike I'd sold ages ago, the dubious benefit of saving a few quid had been thoroughly forgotten. YMMV

🙂

I get finance for everything. Simply don't have enough up front for most things and have always had a hole burning in my pocket when it comes to money.
My last finance deal ended a few months back and was for some forks and wheels for my big bike.

Funnily enough, two days ago I applied for a Tesco credit card, 0% for 21 months with which I intend to bring my hardtail up to speed. Ten speed that is, plus some new forks.

I don't see owt wrong with it if you are careful. I just can't save as something always seems to come up. Having the cash leave my account on the 1st each month to me, is essentially similar to saving....just, sort of backwards.. 😀

I dont see anything wrong with borrowing 1+2k. It when its 4k+ that its ridiculous especially as Im struggling to see why mtb's are worth 5k+. Thats my personal view though as I am tight with money.

Nope, I save and use cash. I'm not against loans or finance, but for your hobby..?

I dont see anything wrong with borrowing 1+2k. It when its 4k+ that its ridiculous especially as Im struggling to see why mtb's are worth 5k+. Thats my personal view though as I am tight with money.

What about two 2k bikes?

I see many here are sensible.

I think the article quoted more for people's debt. The £300 was running costs p/a. Still less than a tank of petrol in Blighty, isn't it?

There's nothing wrong with finance, in fact, if used sensibly, it's the smart choice.

I don't see owt wrong with it if you are careful. I just can't save as something always seems to come up. Having the cash leave my account on the 1st each month to me, is essentially similar to saving....just, sort of backwards..

The test I've always used though is, if I lost my job tomorrow, for how long could I manage my debts*?

*actually, I could pay them off with a week's salary. Debt scares me!

In the days when I was racing (and I earned about half what I do now) I racked up a reasonable 5 figure debt - not just bike kit but race entry fees and travel abroad, coaching, physio etc etc. It took me 3 years of zero expendable money to put myself back on an even keel. When racing I was able to persuade myself there was stuff I 'had' to have, now I'm better at realising it's just a hobby - I'm much less obsessive.

If I persuade myself I need a new bike (as in an actual bike, rather than a Trigger's broom style slow replacement) I'll probably use a 0% option not because I couldn't afford to pay for it out of savings but because it seems to make financial sense.

2k bikes? Max that Ive borrowed is 1k (Blur4x frame) and most recent 1k (Planetx bike).

What a great semi trolling article of crap by Andrew clickbait

Many people pay ridiculous amounts every month for cars they don't need and can't really afford, so I see no reason why it should be any different for bikes.

Agree lots of people pay upwards of £400 a month to rent a car to look good to strangers on their street. Literally.

Silly headline...here's a more relevant one...

Motorists racing into debt to acquire vehicles that are disproportionately expensive, large and inappropriate to their needs (and driving skills)."

Ok it doesn't make such good click bait but I would wager it affects more of the population...

Nuts beaten to it!

Always had the money and never borrowed but it doesn't surprise me people on low incomes borrow a couple of £k for a bike while they have no reserve fund in place if they lose their jobs or for an emergency.
I'm self employed so get paranoid if I don't have a years living costs in reserve in case of another recession/work downturn (having been through a couple) so I simply wouldn't borrow for a bike and make do with what I had.

MrSmith - Member

Always had the money and never borrowed but it doesn't surprise me people on low incomes borrow a couple of £k for a bike while they have no reserve fund in place if they lose their jobs or for an emergency.
I'm self employed so get paranoid if I don't have a years living costs in reserve in case of another recession/work downturn (having been through a couple) so I simply wouldn't borrow for a bike and make do with what I had.

I'm amazed the country is in such a state when STWers are all perfect like you 🙂

This place is comical, honestly, I've never known such a bunch of superior beings all in one place.

I don't earn much but tend to put a standing order of 100 pound out from my earnings per month and build it up so I can afford parts or frames from that pot. I couldn't even think about going on finance.

i'll start by saying that Mail article is a rehash of a complete bunch of guff by Critchlow in the Telegraph, so treat it with the respect that sort of heritage might deserve

Di2 on a Deore budget?
that's me, but then i have bike wheels that are worth more than my car, my watch costs about £25, my television was free and i don't spend vast amounts of money on beer or any other weekend drug habit

where i prioritise my debt is up to me

Superior? No I'm sorry I agree with MrSmith. When did it become ok to be a debt-nation?

I'm a self-confessed all the gear type however I can't simply justify buying all the gear. I look at carbon full sussers and think VERY nice. The latest Fox 36's are VERY nice. I'd love those. I really would. Can I justify the expense? No.

I stretched to a new Commencal frame last week- I put the secondhand proceeds of my previous frame against it. Even then I felt 'guilty' at buying a new frame. I guess if you've been stung/know harder times when younger you don't run into credit that easy.

Like cars bikes are depreciating items too- yes you get all the joy and thrills from riding your top-end bike but how many times a month is that? You'd still get all the joy and thrills from riding a lesser alu frame. They aren't bad- they are bloody good nowadays.

Mountain biking has always had element of 'must have that £1,000 pair of Jimmy Choo's' female equivalent type (because its the best/I'm worth it etc)- so who's the 'superior' ones.....

It aint those who worry about debt.

I would NEVER buy a bike on finance.

Being a student a see how much money I have at the start of the year and divide that by 9 (the amount of months at uni and student finance only just covers the house) then keep the that budget each month, whatever is leftover at the end of each month I then allow myself to spend on bikes/holiday ect. This technique has worked for the past 3 years and I have managed to get to now with 3 nice bikes all of which were paid for upfront

Cash only for me.
I do understand folks who do use finance and think why not if they can afford it..

I've lost track of what's considered an "expensive" bike these days but personally wouldn't see £2k as anything excessive.
I save more than that a year on travel fares by using a bike to commute to work and the bike "running costs" are more than covered by scrapping the gym membership and riding more 😀

I save more than that a year on travel fares by using a bike to commute to work and the bike "running costs" are more than covered by scrapping the gym membership and riding more

This is how I justify part of the bikes cost- no gym fees but also I put in the cost to sanity. Sometimes a bike ride just stops anxious/makes you feel sane once more = priceless.

I do understand folks who do use finance and think why not if they can afford it..

If people include CC purchases then all my bikes have been "on finance" - you can take advantage of on the spot deals, get purchase protection and product insurance. Usually try to pay it off before the interest period but even if it takes an extra month it's not a lot of extra cash.

Prefer this to sitting in front of a screen frotting over my next purchase while anxiously looking at my stash wondering if the price will jump before I pluck up the balls to buy.

But then I guess saving does have the advantage of giving plenty of time for the "my next bike - talk to me" posts
😉

got to the stage in life where i can pretty much buy whatever i want.
still use 0% to buy bikes. why use your own cash in the bank when you can use someone elses?

My latest bike is on credit. I had every intention of buying it up front but 0% interest for 12 months seemed stupid not to take the offer.

Cash for me except one bike which was on 0% finance with enough cash in my bank account to pay it off immediately. Just worked better for cashflow that way. (Strictly speaking I do use credit cards but paid off in full each month). I do seem to have stopped buying bikes recently although some of my recent upgrades cost more than my cheaper bikes...

If you read the story (I read the sake story on a different newspaper website earlier) the study has lumped together "bike or car" loans. From this that have come to the conclusion that Britons are over their heads I have debt to purchase bikes.

Bonkers poor journalism as usual.

I've got 3 bikes at the moment - all were bought on the C2W scheme.
The last one is 'paid off' next month.
I'm going to have a break for a year then maybe replace my Boardman Hybrid with something like an Arkose or Planet X London Road.

C2W is a no-brainer for me, and at my skill/fitness level, £1k bikes with a few upgrades are perfect.

I'd love a £5k road bike, but wouldn't get into debt over it.

Bonkers poor journalism as usual.

When it all hits the secondhand market- would you spend 1k+ on a 2-3yr+ old bike frame that was crazy prices new? I wouldn't.

People use credit to buy nice things they can't afford. What a surprise! 🙄

It's only debt if you can't afford it though. If you are sensible and you pay it off then 0% finance is just like saving but you get the stuff at the beginning!!

did c2w once (for a bike that I'm pretty sure still gets used more for commuting than hobby) and when I was 16ish I got an MTB on unofficial credit - basically gave the LBS owner a load of dated cheques but apart from that nope. Mortgage is the only thing I have hanging over me. I don't lik ebeing in debt, bikes (and cars and anything else) I pay cash for.

That said it's a big birthday next year, may be tempted to spaff on a posh bike, so might consider 0% if I haven't saved enough. Dunno, may have come to my senses by then and purchase something more sensible/2nd hand.

Last 2 bikes were through finance type arrangements, first one was 50% paid then the remaining 50% paid over the next 3 months. The frame had to be got earlier than planned or it wouldn't have gone ahead.
Second one was a demo that I wanted, arranged finance on it and it will be paid within the year, made a big difference to me and my riding and not a tough thing to do. Again it was at a one time only price so just pulled the purchase forward.

Not a bad thing really.

It's probably worth pointing out that some of the 0% finance schemes will knock a bike companies profits in half - after all, somebody has to effectively pay the interest and if it's not you, it's the supplier. As such, you can often be a bit cheeky with these companies and ask how much it'd be outright knowing that they'd rather take the cash up front. If they won't move then fine, let them lose their profit and you take the 0%, but it never hurts to try.

I've paid cash for my last few bikes now. Cost me a fortune in lost interest.

It's isn't 'only debt if you can't afford it'

It's a debt the minute you use someone else's money to fund the purchase.

When you can't afford it it becomes an unserviceable debt.

Back in the early 90's I had some student loan left over after the end of term. I asked a mate who worked for an importer to get me a Mongoose Iboc Comp frame. I specced it out with lx, uno and zoom bits from a merlin ad on the back of a magazine.

It was great! and totally financed by debt. Loved that bike. 🙂

Isn't this just one of those poorly conducted surveys to promote insurance companies??

Cost me a fortune in lost interest.

😀

In an ISA? 2K at 2%? Halved as you'd have paid it back gradually? £20?

Never paid finance on any bike purchase. Managed to pay cash for everything, and happy to lower my expectations on what I 'must' have to suit what I can afford. Purely my personal taste, but I prefer to gather bits and build a bike myself, so the value to me is greater than the sum of the value of the parts. Also, I genuinely think that most people can get everything they need from a £1k - £1.5k bike, and I like to do this. It is only recently that I have been in a position to spend more if I wanted to, but I just don't think an off the shelf £2-3k bike would give me double of anything that the cheaper bike I build myself would.

Significantly more than £2k, at 3% in my current account

I suppose if you must have the latest doofer or the hottest thinger [i]and[/i] you can afford it, go ahead. I prefer to pay cash for my bikes and bike bits because, being self-employed, we don't always have a steady stream of income so a lot of what we've bought has been striking while the iron was hot. I'm absolutely gutted I couldn't afford a Sunn Charger from Chain Reaction when they had them in stock, and now I can afford one they've only gone and blinking well sold out 😡 The fact I find it difficult to justify spending more on a bicycle than both our car and motorcycles cost is another factor 😆 It's people choosing to get into debt/trouble for the latest hot-poop thing that puzzles me 😕

borrow 5k on something that is depreciating fast - NOT a problem just as long as you have >5k to pay off said item if something happened to your revenue/pay/you.

I couldn't deal with the stress, not withstanding WHEN it gets a rockstrike or I fall off I'd be arrrgghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nooo!!

Saying that- I wouldn't say no to a 5k roadbike 😀

First 'proper' bike I bought was on finance from Leisure Lakes in Daventry.
But only because it was 0% for 12 months and I had enough money spare each month to set-up a direct debit up & ensure it was paid off.

I would consider buying another bike on 0% finance, but wouldn't buy one if there was a >0 interest rate applied to the finance.

This article is nonsense though in the context of how much money people 'are in debt' due to other lifestyle choices like cars, phones etc.

It's just another way of pointing and laughing at this growing impression of 'the MAMIL'. HA HA, look at those silly chubby men on their road bikes, thinking they are Bradley Wiggins.... 🙄

I would agree with a few of the above posters in that whilst some people are undoubtedly spending beyond their means to buy nice bikes the numbers of people and level of debt pales in comparison to the millions of people who bury themselves financially in order to be seen to have the latest and shiniest car/clothes/Jewellery/Watch/phone.

In the grand scheme of things it's a relatively benign fixation, I'd take having a friend or family member develop a thing for shiny bikes over one developing a Gambling addiction any day.

We are a society that is addicted to bringing forward consumption and delaying payment - bikes are no exception, which is why the prices are taking the proverbial.

Can I have some more please?

I'd love to see the new marketing and the new mag-spiel in the next year or so ' best ever forks' etc pedalled out. Suddenly everyones binning previous and buying the new King product.

People use credit to buy nice things they can't afford. What a surprise!

or people with shit loads of expendable income using 0% finance because it is a no brainer?

it's encouraging though that decent FS bikes can be had at more reasonable prices than a while ago IMO. I bought a 5 Pro in 2008 and I think it was about £2500. I recently bought an Anthem SX, which, with a 2015 SLX groupset is probably better than the old XT/Raceface kitted 5. Both came with Fox forks and shocks.

The Giant was a good bit under 2K, 7 years later...

Or maybe that's just more to do with Orange pricing 🙂

Hmm, 8 (yes eight) bikes in our house, 7 of which were straight purchases and one on the C2W scheme.

We are fortunate in that the mortgage is paid off and have no other loans to pay off so within reason we can buy what we want though neither of us tend to change things for the sake of it or have to have something because our friends do.

I'm not against buying things on finance as in the right situation it can be the right way to do things but I was brought up to save up for things as it would make you appreciate them more.

18 months interest free finance at £50 per month to buy my bike, save that in petrol by no longer driving to work everyday.

When that credit agreement runs out I will probably get another interest free one to upgrade the forks.

Using a 0% CC means you can keep the cash in your savings acc longer therefore making money. You just have to be savvy about how you use them. But some people get giddy and don't pay them off properly

only ever bought a frame and a pair of forks on finance and that was nearly 10 years ago. the total outlay for the 2 was about £1400. i could have paid up front but it would have meant i would have been very skint for the next few months. the finance was 0% over 12 months and i could easily afford the repayments. i've never bought on finance since though
my commuter bike was purchased through C2W and i've just finished paying that off and now need to extend my "ownership" for a further 3 years
if i were to buy another mtb, based on what bike would meet my needs, i'd easily be paying somewhere between £2-3.5k.
if i had the cash saved up i'd buy it outright but then i'd feel guilty that i'd spent that sort of money on myself, when i could have taken the wife and kids on holiday etc.
therefore finance may be the only reasonable option for me, but only if i felt that the repayment terms were reasonable and affordable for me...but even then i'd have to find a way to justify the monthly expenditure to the Long Haired General
i dont think there's anything wrong with getting a bike on finance, so long as the repayments are affordable.

Used to do it quite a lot - first MTB (for years anyway) 10 years ago was on a 3yr interest free R2W thing. Sold it after 12 months though, it was a bit crap.

Second bike was £2200 and had it over 2 years on 0%, was still riding that bike 5 years later.

Third bike was a £2500 DH bike I had on 0% again, I paid it off early and sold it.

Forth was a £4000 DH bike that I paid cash for.

Leaving me with the new DH bike and the Second bike and I had those for years.

Then in 2011 I bought a shiny new Lapierre Spicy 516 on 0%, it was £3300 or something silly - I took it over 3 years and told myself I'd sell the old trail bike and the DH bike and pay it off. They didn't go for anything like I hoped they would and the finance company was pretty inflexible - I could pay off a lump, but they wanted a fat fee for re-writing the finance which made it pointless so I ended up investing that money elsewhere, I still can't remember where it went, but it was gone

12 months later the Spicy got nicked from my shed, our insurance didn't cover it so I was bike-less and still paying £100 a month for it which really pissed me off, it was like a little kick in the plums from the thief every month. We were getting married a few months later so I had no spare cash, wasn't prepared to borrow more to buy another one so ended up selling my car, buying a banger to get to work and an older, lower spec Spicy which was even worse than the last one (not the best bike ever, but I wouldn't admit it until it was long gone).

My current bike is an evolution of that Spicy really, although I think the only remaining part is the crank and the forks (although they've got a new damper unit) - it's not the fanciest bike in my riding group by a long shot, it's got a crap respray job on it, it's got a little dent that haunts my dreams and it's oddly very slow to roll which makes me slower than I'd like sometimes - but it's great fun to ride, I'd go so far to bestow a personality on it, but mostly it's mine, it's paid for and it's made of carefully chosen, tough bits that rarely go wrong.

I'm not saying I'll never finance another bike, but it seems unlikely to me, perhaps I'm tight, but I don't covet shiny new things, and when I'm spending real money and not just signing paper with numbers on, I'll buy SH when I can.

In the past I would happily go finance for bikes, especially if 0%, but now its a case of if you want it, save and then pay.
One issue I had with financing bikes, and more particularly cars, is that the asset gets devalued over time yet your payments stay the same and although no big issue at 0% and 6/12 months its just seems a bit off to me paying x amount for something every month that was rapidly decreasing in value.
Yes I know its nonsensical as you are still paying a set sum but just didn't feel right, more so with cars though as for example you pay 500GBP a month for a nice new car and 5 years down the line your still paying that for something not worth 30% the original value.
At least with a house it should gain in value over time.

I have real trouble bringing myself to spend money that I don't have on bikes. Like most other people, I've done so for houses and cars - but not for bikes.

In 20 years of biking, I've switched slowly from buying complete bikes to custom-building and evolving my bikes, such that I don't often spend more than £1k at a time - and more typically £1-400 for periodic upgrades.

I've found it much better value to build bikes this way. I also look at complete OEM bike specs and immediately find things that I'd want to change.

My brother has just bought a £2k+ bike on finance and I must say that the thought did cross my mind. Somehow, though, I still can't get past the psycological block of finance on a bike.

We're not going to get out of a consumption-led debt crisis with more consumption-led spending on credit...

Sooner or later this is all going to catch up with us. It has already really, but it's being disguised till the day after tomorrow when the new government is in...

Buying a depreciating asset on credit is financially idiotic. I did it with my first car and lost £'000s and learnt my lesson...

how is buying a bike on 0% finance over 12 months financially idiotic?

surely it is more idiotic to buy a 10k car, and have it sat outside your home/work doing nothing for 23 hours per day.

how is buying a bike on 0% finance over 12 months financially idiotic?

surely it is more idiotic to buy a 10k car, and have it sat outside your home/work doing nothing for 23 hours per day.

Totally agree with you on the car scenario - if more people thought about that, they'd stop buying cars on credit overnight!

Any kind of credit even at 0% means we're consuming things before we've paid for them. You might have noticed that getting ourselves into that habit has caused a few problems recently...

makecoldplayhistory - Member

In my first week of Uni, I did spend a good chunk of my student loan on a new frame (0% for 12 months).

Not trusting myself, I gave my parents the full amount up front and they took out the 'loan' for me.

If you had the full amount up front, why did you buy it on finance?

As I said above, buying on 0% means you can keep the money in your bank and earn interest on it. Surely this makes financial sense??

always paid in cash. Hard to get credit when buying second hand 🙂

ads678 - Member

As I said above, buying on 0% means you can keep the money in your bank and earn interest on it. Surely this makes financial sense??

There is no fast and hard rule when it comes to finance, a lot of it is down to personality some people hate debt, some people see it as a useful tool, there is no right or wrong answer - some people who are happy to have a lot of debt are thinking too short-term, they have impulse control issues and find it hard to anticipate their circumstances changing, on the other-hand some people who will avoid debt it at all costs are thinking too long-term, I forget the name for it, but there is psychological term for it - which equates to people who cannot come to terms with the fact that one day they will be dead so far it hard to live in the moment, anyway that's a very extreme way of looking at it.

In regards to "0% finance" - it's one of the best cons the finance industry has ever come up with (I worked in finance for a decade at lots of different levels so have more than a layman's understanding of it). It appeals to both side of the 'debt coin' to the short-termers it's "cheap" to the long-termers it's "free money" they can keep their savings which makes them feel secure, but if anything goes wrong they can settle it so it's 'not really debt'.

0% finance is actually an expensive way to buy things - when you sign up to a 0% deal the retailer will get something like 80% of the price from the finance company - it depends on the term you buy it over and their relationship with the finance company - obviously the LBS can't handover all their profit margin to the finance co, so they have to inflate the cost of the bike to cover it.

The problem for the savvy buyer is that it's not easy to access this 'finance element' it's so ingrained into the way bike industry now that it's reflected in the RRP - so much so that some manufacturers will threaten LBS with removal of their franchise if they sell you a bike for less than RRP, if you go into a shop and pay RRP and cash for your next bike you're doing a great favour to the LBS, some will try to be competitive by offering you a 'cash price' but some can only do that with current stock after about sept when next years bike are coming in.

You see it reflected in the pricing of the direct brands like YT, they're not only cutting out the LBS, they're cutting out the finance co too.

I spent most of my working life in debt for one thing or another, mostly motorbikes but since I cleared the last loan (conservatory) last year I've felt no temptation to borrow again.

Any kind of credit even at 0% means we're consuming things before we've paid for them. You might have noticed that getting ourselves into that habit has caused a few problems recently...

So 0% finance and paying off affordable debt has led to financial problems the world over?

Bad credit, bad creditors, and bad debt (the debt you can't afford to pay) has, in part, caused the financial problems we have / are experiencing.

Nothing wrong with credit.

Might flex the plastic on one very soon and then sell old one and pay back most of what I borrowed. It's a cash flow thing