"I would like to see cyclists wear some form of identification like cars have. So when they go through traffic lights, you can actually identify them and then you can prosecute them for breaking the law.
...
Because when you use the road, if you are driving a car you have your number plate. Other people register, they pay to use the roads.Cyclists don’t, admittedly."
-- Katy Bourne, Police and Crime Commissioner for Sussex
[url= http://road.cc/content/news/132931-sussex-pcc-calls-bicycle-registration ]More on road.cc here.[/url]
She's right though. It's great that cars have numberplates, because without them crimes like speeding, tailgating and driving on the phone would be commonplace. 😆
It's worrying she's in charge of directing Sussex police resources with such poor judgement.
She's been shot down in flames in lots of places about this by people far more erudite than me so I'll leave it there.
as opposed to cars where it's oh so easy to catch and prosecute the [url= http://road.cc/content/news/123160-video-whats-it-be-hit-head-car-its ][s]arsehole[/s] I'm sorry driver[/url]you can actually identify them and then you can prosecute them for breaking the law.
I'm a cyclist, you can identify me coz I have a face, it may not be pretty but this one is mine, someone whose name slips my mind wasn't borrowing it at the time of the incident officer, it wasn't taken without consent and then put back on my [s]drive and the keys left on the sideboard[/s]* head while I was asleep on the couch, it's all mine.
Stupid person elected into a stupid post, not a massive shock.
*getting my mettyfers muddled there
I pay £480 a year and hardly use my car so I think the daily trip on a bike is well funded.
It should be compulsory to carry ID if you are using the roads, "number plates" aren't workable on bikes
I've only read the title and let me say, I AM FURIOUS!
She's a woman too. We all know women can't ride bikes. I can't take her seriously unless she's really hot.
“And it is never the responsible cyclists that do this – the ones that belong to the clubs, they are great, they are the ones that adhere to all the laws, so it is the few that ruin it for the many.”
Just like the place I work: It amazes me how people so thick get such high up jobs.
<pedant>jambalaya you pay £480 to own a road worthy motor vehicle, no one pays road tax</pedant>
jambalayaI pay £480 a year and hardly use my car so I think the daily trip on a bike is well funded.
+1 on that. Until recently I was taxing two cars. Still paying tax on one I barely use.
jambalaya
It should be compulsory to carry ID if you are using the roads, "number plates" aren't workable on bikes
Can't really agree with that. I could just as easily commit a crime walking down the street. As yet I don't need to be carrying ze papers.
[i]<pedant>jambalaya you pay £480 to own a road worthy motor vehicle, no one pays road tax</pedant> [/i]
I bet he doesn't even display a tax disk, neither!
Peter Walker over on the guardian's had a go at this / her here:
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2014/oct/09/police-commissioner-proposes-id-for-cyclists-but-cant-explain-why-or-how ]grauniad thing[/url]
pay £480 a year and hardly use my car
£480! Is it a ocean going supertanker?
It does rather reinforce my view that putting a single politician in charge of a police force was never going to lead to clear, logical strategic decision making.
What about horses? And they shit everywhere.
The whole PCC thing is a monumental **** up, amongst many. More fuel for the terminally thick haters. Sigh.
What about doggers? They should have to have a visable license of some sort. I'm sick of not knowing who thy are. Taking the dog for a walk often turns into a heavy session just because I politely say 'hello'.
Anyone who says things like "cyclist don't pay for the roads" should be asked a simple question:
"Who has more right to be on the road by your "pay for the roads" rules, a cyclist who pays tax on a car which is generally sat on their drive or a the driver of a tax exempt hybrid who drives every day?"
If you make cycling more complicated then fewer people will cycle, which makes cycling less safe, which means fewer people will cycle...
Peter Walker over on the guardian's had a go at this / her here:
Jesus her comments there are even more depressing. She doesn't seem to have any idea how identification would work or even why she suggested it.
😯
I pay council Tax and I'm pretty sure the council maintain the roads I use. When I next go on the motorway* on my bicycle I'll be sure to pay VED at the going rate for a zero emission vehicle.
Also cyclists having number-plates is about as sensible as getting pedestrians to wear them so that after someone drops litter or doesn't clean up after their dog you know who did it.
*i.e. never 'cos I doubt it would be much fun never mind the fact that even I know it is illegal.
[i]She doesn't seem to have any idea how identification would work or even why she suggested it.[/i]
see my note above re: politicians.
She was in front of an audience who were angry/upset about cyclists misbehaving she made off the cuff comments which had no evidential basis and is now trying to find a way to either move them forward in the face of the evidence or deny she intended to make it 'policy' and that it was just 'opening debate'. She wants votes, not a solution.
PCC = gravy train for failed politicians
She was in front of an audience who were angry/upset about cyclists misbehaving
True, though most of her remarks were made "After the meeting, Bourne told The Argus.." so she can't really claim she just got caught up in the pitchforks and torches.
Also she said to Peter Walker "I wanted to speak up for cyclists. I’m very pro-cycling"
Well done there love. Great job.
PCC = gravy train for failed politicians
Indeed I can't say I was surprised when it was disclosed the fellow in Rotherham was paid £85k pa, that's a pretty comfortable amount for living/working there.
...and horses...and mobility scooters...
Personally I'd like PCC's to wear some sort of identification when making statements, something saying "I have no idea what I'm talking about" would probably do.
Because when newspapers interview you, experts have qualifications. Other people get qualifications, they need experience to be in a position of influence.
Jambalaya - The Greater Manchester clown, Tony Lloyd, was a failed labour politico. On taking up his £100k pa role, the first thing he did was create the £65k pa position of Deputy PCC, and appointed his campaign manager. Apparently, this shameless little wheeze has been repeated all over the country. He then, without a hint of self-awareness, proposed cutting police salaries by £4k to save money
Its great this 'democratic accountability' lark, isn't it?
Only just seen this. OMG!
“And it is never the responsible cyclists that do this – the ones that belong to the clubs, they are great, they are the ones that adhere to all the laws, so it is the few that ruin it for the many.”
So we're not on the shit list if we wear a club jersey? Ace...
Conservative Katy Bourne was elected to the post of Police and Crime Commissioner in November 2012. The turnout was 15.82%, including people who spoilt their ballot papers. After second preferences were taken into account, Bourne beat Labour candidate Godfrey Daniel by 80,028 votes to 55,602, or 9% of the electorate against 6%.
That's what I really love about the idea of PCC's how they're really representative, in touch with and part of of the communities they're elected to serve...
I suppose it's our own faults really (as an electorate) for being largely disinterested when it comes to voting for whichever councillor fancies having their own police force to boss about.
15% turnout? That'll be mostly the old duffer brigade then, instinctively right leaning, keen on anyone who claim's thy'ee protect them from marauding immigrants, aggressive looking gulls on the seafront and those rowdy cyclists with their "spandex"...
no government agency like (DVLA) owns our bikes, like they do with cars/motorbikes/vans/trucks/buses and any other Licenced vehicle that they can impose a 'tax' on, so No cycles should/could Never (Lawfully) be taxed as THEY don't own them.
it is the few that ruin it for the many.
As someone on road.cc said:
Does she say the same about drunk drivers ruining it for every other driver? Or about rapists ruining it for every other man (or John Worboys ruining it for every other black cab driver)?No? So * her and her * stupid collective responsibility BS*** nonsense.
Quite. I get a bit fed up having to justify or being held responsible for the actions of other people on bikes.
@waswas - to the contrary, I am keen to have something to show for all that money, at least until April 2015 8)
@rocketdog - top rate band, supposedly an environmental tax but my car is pretty green as it's used only every couple of weeks.
She was in front of an audience who were angry/upset about cyclists misbehaving she made off the cuff comments which had no evidential basis and is now trying to find a way to either move them forward in the face of the evidence or deny she intended to make it 'policy' and that it was just 'opening debate'. She wants votes, not a solution.
exactly this is, of course, what happens when the person supposedly in charge of running the police effectively has a separate agenda where popularity with the electorate and getting another term, is ahead of delivering good, effective policing...
The police shouldn't be popular, they [u]should[/u] be impartial and separate from those in any sort of political office...
The agenda is set by whoever makes the biggest fuss, ultimately the whole PCC thing ends up giving the Daily Mail and local rags all sorts of power over regional policing priorities...
Will the numberplates be made of steel or can I have titanium or carbon?
Anyway...
"Sussex’s Katy Bourne (Conservative) has made a fellow local Tory to be her Deputy PCC, rejecting outright a recommendation from the local Police & Crime Panel – which held the confirmation hearing – that Steve Waight should not be appointed. According to a ‘not for publication’ minute of the meeting acquired by this blog, the Panel was concerned that there was “no information to explain the nature of the [£45,000 p.a.] role,” and that the nominee did not have “the requisite level of personal independence.”
Katy ignored these findings, refused to publish them and went ahead with the appointment. Three cheers for democratic reforms to policing!
Someone in this position needs to MTFU and make a statement to the effect of "We don't consider 'misbehaving cyclists' to be a serious issue and we are directing our budget and efforts towards more important problems on our roads."
They won't though, even though it's probably what they actually think/do.
@binner's 'kin 'ell re your Greater Manchester story and the one above 😯 . I guess we should have known that as soon as the position was an elected one all we'd get is politicians in he role as frankyl they have the experience for getting elected.
Just to please Katy Bourne, I'm going to put a number plate on my bike tonight. It will say:
B008 1E5
Or maybe
P155 0FF
🙂
Hahaha 🙂We all know women can't ride bikes.
I really think that every cyclist who owns and pays for their car, should for one day a year (preferably a busy week day), all ditch their bikes and take to the roads in our cars. Gridlock here we come.
That'll teach them.
@stevo - sadly they are elected (based upon what a 15% turnout?) and they need to pander to the grumpy who vote. it's quit easy for them to make remarks like "cyclists should be registered" as it 's central government which would have to implement anything and the PCC bod / bod-ess can just pass the buck
how do these PCC's get recalled/recused....?
@rocketdog - I think if i bought the same car again new the VED would be £1000 👿
That would do me nicely jambalaya, I'm a royal bell end after all 🙂
Daft cah.
Does anyone here understand VED, it seems a new version of my car (2014) would be £285 pa whereas mine (2007) is £500. Seems hard to believe VED went down ?
My favourite bit from the guardian interview (linked earlier):
..fortunate that at that point our call was interrupted ... There were only so many times I could say, “Hang on, so you’re advocating a policy on the basis of a statistic when you have no idea what that statistic means?”
So she's the Police & Crime Commissioner for Sussex and she's a conservative?, that shows us just how redundant the two posts are.
#fucwit
She is obviously a cretin.
As some small engined cars and electric cars pay no 'Road Tax' why should a cyclist?
You'd just stick a false plate on, wouldn't you? The 5-0 are more of a delayed-reaction squad than an actual 'police' force now anyway, aren't they? They certainly are around here when I try to get anything done about the arseholes booling round on pit bikes.
Mine just did the opposite. Switched from an 2005 to a 2008 model of exactly the same car and it went up from £285 to £475. Eh? What? Why?Does anyone here understand VED, it seems a new version of my car (2014) would be £285 pa whereas mine (2007) is £500. Seems hard to believe VED went down ?
Combined with the two agricultural rust buckets we also run that means I'm paying nearly £1k a year in 'road tax', which I think entitles me to ride through as many red traffic lights as I want. On the pavement, at night, without lights, wearing black camouflage.
I really think that every cyclist who owns and pays for their car, should for one day a year (preferably a busy week day), all ditch their bikes and take to the roads in our cars. Gridlock here we come.
That'll teach them.
Interestingly on Monday the weather was crap. I spoke to several people who normally get to work by other means but used their cars because it was so wet. I rather suspect that the fact that the traffic was so much worse than normal had some connection to that fact. (The amusing thing was that one of the worst complainers was someone who usually commutes by motorbike and used the car instead...)
No evidence to prove that, but it didn't stop this woman spouting off 😉
Dinny bint! Some women should not be allowed out of the kitchen, and Ms Bourne is one of them.
That Guardian article is perfect. Answers all the questions, including "Actually, how stupid is this woman and how much is she paid for being that stupid?"
The enforcement of any cyclist ID law would be hilarious. I wouldn't wear/carry/fit any id tag. So the law can't identify me for breaking the law... er, hang on...
Bunnyhop - MemberI really think that every cyclist who owns and pays for their car, should for one day a year (preferably a busy week day), all ditch their bikes and take to the roads in our cars. Gridlock here we come.
That'll teach them.
agreed.
knackers to the 'national bike to to work day' - I don't think [s]normal people[/s] muggles pay any attention.
However, i reckon enough cyclists would enjoy the sadistic mischief of an 'unofficial grid-lock day!' to actually join in,
mid-week, term time, maximise the impact.
her twitter account has just woken up...
" what number plate holder for Afan ?"
[i]Does anyone here understand VED, it seems a new version of my car (2014) would be £285 pa whereas mine (2007) is £500. Seems hard to believe VED went down ?
Mine just did the opposite. Switched from an 2005 to a 2008 model of exactly the same car and it went up from £285 to £475. Eh? What? Why?[/i]
Rules were brought in that included post-2006 cars retrospectively - basically manufacturers were unaware that certain cars would be 'caught'. My wifes old Freelander was £450 and her new one with twice the power (and about the same mpg) is half this.
her twitter account has just woken up.
Engage Reverse Thrusters.
Media Deflection Shields to maximum power.
😀
I carry my drivers licence in my wallet and my wallet with me on most rides so in fact I do carry id should the need ever arise. I expect this is the same for most cyclists, particularly in towns.
I see charlie the bike mongoist is already one step ahead of us...
http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/bikemonger-road-tax-disc-sticker-5883-p.asp
S'funny how anyone who comes out with anything anti-cyclist never seems to be able to rationally back up their views with data or factual evidence... or any kind of sensible, well-thought-through argument at all...
I carry my drivers licence in my wallet and my wallet with me on most rides so in fact I do carry id should the need ever arise. I expect this is the same for most cyclists, particularly in towns.
Maybe for you kiddies with plastic ones 😉
She's a conservative married to a banker, d'ya really think she is capable of formulating a cohesive well-thought-through argument regarding cycling?, I'd make her leave the car at home for a month and give her a bike to get about, then ask her to comment on her original outburst after 30 days of abuse from car drivers, should wipe that smug, self satisfied expression from her face.
Too long winded deleted
I carry my drivers licence in my wallet and my wallet with me on most rides so in fact I do carry id should the need ever arise. I expect this is the same for most cyclists, particularly in towns.
Erm... nope.
I don't usually carry a wallet at all, on bike or off, and I never carry my driver's license. That stays in a drawer at home.
I'd make her leave the car at home for a month and give her a bike to get about
But she is already [i]"very pro-cycling"[/i] and [i]"wanted to speak up for cyclists"[/i].
She said so 😉
What aracer said way back up there ^^, I would happily hang a plate around her PCC neck that read something like "H4LF W1T"
Couldn't be bothered reading everyone's post, so this has probably been covered...
THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS ROAD TAX! How does a police-person not know this?
She needn't worry, cyclists who jump red lights have short life expectancies.
Sooner or later they will be side swiped by an unsuspecting road tax payer.
I think it goes like this -
I see no drivers doing wrong
I see no cyclists
Oh!! A cyclist has done something wrong now I see them 😉
I don't usually carry a wallet at all, on bike or off
You can take the man out of scotland but not the scotland out of the man 😉
She plainly has no need to work, not as most folk understand it anyway. However, her commitment to doing good and being seen to resolve serious social issues in the South East , probably goes down well at dinner parties.
Conan257 - Member
How does a police-person not know this?
Because despite 'police' in the title of Police and Crime Commissioner, she has zero qualification relating to policing.
PCCs are ridiculous. Were designed to let house wives be elected to wag fingers at the police to keep the Daily Mail readers happy thinking they have a say in the way the police do their daily business, but in reality they have been used by political parties to get politicians they have no use for elected in these roles to spout the odd bit of party political bollocks or just bollocks, to keep the Daily Mail readers happy and take a nice salary and expenses to go with it.
You know I think I genuinely detest this type of hobbiest politician far more than a bona fide benefit scrounger
Her website is ludicrous with absolutely no real information or cv of any kind. One might suppose from this that other than 1 year as a district councilor and a brief stint running an unnamed, undescribed and unaccounted for small business, she has absolutely no qualifications for her current role....aptly illustrated by the way she is performing in it.
Just a thought on this elected positions thing - wondering if anybody here knows. In the US they have lots and lots of elected posts - chief of police, prosecutor, coroner etc. (probably lots of others as well, but those are the ones I can think of from the books I read). Do people standing for these posts in the US stand on a party ticket, or are they actually mostly people with some experience of the role and canvassing on that basis with no party affiliation?
Because it seems that if done properly elected officials may not be a bad thing (I'm still not convinced by the principle, but that's another matter) if they are actually people who know something about the job. What seems to have happened with these PCCs is that politicians have stood on a party ticket and been voted in along traditional party lines. Personally I couldn't care less what the party affiliation of somebody doing such a job is, I just want them to do a good one and see no benefit at all to such elections being run on party lines. It's different when electing to government or your local council where you need to know what group somebody is going to align with (though in the latter case at least I think they'd be far better run by everybody working together rather than fighting each other).
Admittedly our local PCC who I voted for is an independent with experience of the police and he's turned out as shit and corrupt as the rest of them.
The Daily Mail is joining in;
[img] 
[/img]
which conclusively proves it's a bad idea.
I think we can immediately discount any article that starts with
"Some of my best friends are...... *insert name of group you're about to launch into a rambling incoherent tirade of sweeping generalisations against*
Surely the benchmark of lazy journalism. Then there's the fact that Simon Heffer is just a **** anyway
"Some of my best friends are...... *insert name of group you're about to launch into a rambling incoherent tirade of sweeping generalisations against*
Exactly my thought when I happened upon it this morning.
You guys are ahead of me - I thought I'd just see what it had to say and only got as far a the first sentence!
It is one of those that as soon as you hear the words you switch off
I am not racist but being another