[Closed] Cyclist knocked off his bike and abused

How about by the way the occupants are dressed?

So you check how people in the cars behind you are dressed when you do your lifesaver...you sir are truly TEH AEWSUMS!!!!!

the cyclist was doing everything right. I would do the same in that position. The police have wrongly advised in that letter. I think they have gone leniently on the car/passenger because it was a funeral. I'd rather they prosecuted every time.

I would have given way to the procession

That might have been a bit easier to do if they [i]were[/i] a procession, moving together at the respectfully sedate speed expected of a cortège, rather than a column of random cars slaloming between a cyclist and traffic islands at 30mph.

Several people on the Grauniad comments accused him of cutting through the middle of a procession - they seem to have missed the bit where half the procession overtook him!

How about by the way the occupants are dressed? <insert turbobelm smiley here>

I don't know what a turbobelm smiley is, so I'm assuming you're being serious.

I'm traveling at 20mph, on my bike. I'm avoiding potholes, watching for parked cars, pedestrians walking out on me, upcoming traffic lights, traffic jams etc.

You also want me to take into account how people are dressed, in cars, behind me? And if they are dressed like they are going to a funeral (please define funeral wear), and two cars ago a hearse passed me, you want me to pull over, rather than turn right.

I'll probably just turn right, thanks all the same.

I don't know about everyone else, but when im riding on the road and looking over my shoulder for approaching vehicles etc, Im not generally looking at whether the driver has got a natty cravat on whilst rocking perforated brown leather driving gloves FFS.
If I spent that much time looking at the occupants of the car I'd likely ride into another hazard instead of looking forwards.

And if they are dressed like they are going to a funeral (please define funeral wear),

Best mate's wife insisted that we all wore bright colourful clothes to her funeral as she wanted us to celebrate her not mourn in a black, Victorian stylee - guess we would have been wrongly identified in this instance.

When my dad died about 15 of his cycling club all came to the funeral on bikes, and in club kit.

I'm getting confused now, should other cyclists have pulled over for them?

We need some sort of funeral hierarchy spreadsheet...

EDIT: and can someone let me know the rules of drafting a funeral procession, is this bad form?

You really need telling?

How about by the way the occupants are dressed? <insert turbobelm smiley here>

[quote=Junkyard]csar driver at fault they ranover someone

First against the wall come the revolution ?

can someone let me know the rules of drafting a funeral procession, is this bad form?

No its fine so long and you only look down, out of respect...

What about if I'm in my car and a car behind me wants to catch up to the hearse that's half a mile ahead, having got through a junction just before the lights went red?

If I'm turning right should I first pull over to the left to allow someone in a suit (therefore obviously going to a funeral) to overtake me? If there isn't room but they've got a bigger car are they allowed to bash me out of the way? Whose insurance will have to pay out? Mine, for being in the way of griefmageddon?

Should one remove one's helmet also?

me or them?
Not sure I would kill anyone for being a crap driver - or typist if it was aimed at me
I would probably but them against the drawll come the evolution 😉

perhaps vehicles in the funeral cortege should be marked so that we know to treat them differently.
and for those of us without eyes in the back of our heads, perhaps they should also be playing the funeral march so we know that they're approaching.

should we despair more because someone doesn't know about funeral procession etiquette, or because driving in a funeral cortege seems to excuse you from running people down in the street?

sobriety - Member

So you check how people in the cars behind you are dressed when you do your lifesaver...you sir are truly TEH AEWSUMS!!!!!

I actually check a lot more.
I wouldn't describe myself as awesome, but I would describe myself as someone who doesn't get knocked off their bike and doesn't crash their car. 🙂

I actually check a lot more.

[img]

2.BP.BLOGSPOT.COM "http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DRRoHJuddhY/TZ-MjpdylJI/AAAAAAAAHUw/5hC6e8F0rGE/s400/jimmyhill.jpg[/img]"

[quote=Junkyard ]me or them?
Not sure I would kill anyone for being a crap driver - or typist if it was aimed at me
I would probably but them against the drawll come the evolution

csar/tsar - Russian revolution etc etc.

</explaining supposed joke>

Oh enough already, let's just go round and dig up her Gran, that'll teach her.

warton - Member

I'm traveling at 20mph, on my bike. I'm avoiding potholes, watching for parked cars, pedestrians walking out on me, upcoming traffic lights, traffic jams etc.

He wasn't travelling at 20mph, he had all the time in the world to make all necessary observations.

You also want me to take into account how people are dressed, in cars, behind me? And if they are dressed like they are going to a funeral (please define funeral wear), and two cars ago a hearse passed me, you want me to pull over, rather than turn right.

I'll probably just turn right, thanks all the same.

That's your choice, and I'm happy for you to make it.
You would have been knocked off though, I wouldn't. 💡
😀

Just to avoid any pointless arguments, I believe the driver was 100% in the wrong, and their punishment unduly lenient.

[s]Nods sagely [/s] sound of penny dropping

lemonysam - Member

[i]Chinny reckon[/i]

Come for a ride/drive with me and I'm sure I would be able to help you increase your observation skills. 🙂

I take it back. You're not awesome. You're god.

sobriety - Member

I take it back. You're not awesome. You're god.

As an atheist, that's a pretty depressing situation to be in. 😉

> I'll probably just turn right, thanks all the same.

That's your choice, and I'm happy for you to make it.
You would have been knocked off though, I wouldn't.

So you wouldn't have been knocked off because not only would your acute observational skills allow you to deduce that the woman in floral summer dress behind you in a red Peugot was clearly attending the funeral; but also that the driver of said vehicle was a mild sociopath and would be prepared to run you down for daring to act like any other traffic would.

Very impressive, Mr Holmes.

GrahamS is right, a lot of what im reading here is genuinely depressing..
That anyone could draw the conclusion that the shouty agressive driver/passengers (in their 2 ton weapon) were at anyway in the right, and that the cyclist 'ad it comin' downright staggers me.

The more I think about it the more I dispair - should I or any of my loved ones come under this kind of treatment from drivers/the old bill - what chance have we got?

'Car drivers have precedent on roads'
Dear oh dear..

Quick, someone cheer me up!

So you wouldn't have been knocked off because not only would your acute observational skills allow you to deduce that the woman in floral summer dress behind you in a red Peugot was clearly attending the funeral; but also that the driver of said vehicle was a mild sociopath and would be prepared to run you down for daring to act like any other traffic would

Of course, he would have been able to tell by the look in their eyes and facial expression, like Tim Roth in Lie to Me.

GrahamS - Member

So you wouldn't have been knocked off because not only would your acute observational skills allow you to deduce that the woman in floral summer dress behind you in a red Peugot was clearly attending the funeral; but also that the driver of said vehicle was a mild sociopath and would be prepared to run you down for daring to act like any other traffic would.

Very impressive, Mr Holmes.

I would have accepted the possibility that the three funeral cars would be followed by at least three or four normal cars also in the procession, without observing anything about the occupants of the red Peugeot.
That may make me Mr Holmes, Mr Geller or Mr Einstein in your book.
In mine it's just noting the bleeding obvious. 🙂

slimjim78 - Member

GrahamS is right, a lot of what im reading here is genuinely depressing..
That anyone could draw the conclusion that the shouty agressive driver/passengers (in their 2 ton weapon) were at anyway in the right, and that the cyclist 'ad it comin' downright staggers me.

With the exception of the copper's quote, have you really read much in support of the motorist?
Forgive me if there is overwhelming support for the motorist, I've only skimmed the thread so may have missed it. 🙂

I would have accepted the possibility that the three funeral cars would be followed by at least three or four normal cars also in the procession,

so what?

Ah so not actually by observing how "the occupants are dressed" as you stated.

Okay. So when overtaken by a funeral car you should immediately abandon the road, presumably with a deftly executed sideways bunny hop onto the pavement? (not the easiest thing to do on a Brompton) Then presumably wait a few minutes till you can sure that no more mourners are coming?

Question: should I do the same thing when driving? What if I can't get my car onto the pavement properly because someone has placed some children with faces there?

thomthumb - Member

so what?

So I would have allowed them to pass and stay in a procession.
Did you really need to ask me that?
You could have just read the rest of the thread, you know. The answer was already there. 🙂

So I would have allowed them to pass and stay in a procession.

If they wanted to maintain the procession then the lead cars shouldn't have f****** overtaken the cyclist!!!

THEY BROKE THE PROCESSION NOT HIM.

With the exception of the copper's quote, have you really read much in support of the motorist?
Forgive me if there is overwhelming support for the motorist, I've only skimmed the thread so may have missed it.

Well for a start, you are arguing the toss..

And then theres the quotes GrahamS posted via the link..

Forgive me Sbob, and yes, I too would have assumed several cars were following the hearse - but the gaps between the last couple of cars were growing, the pace of the rider was considerable (as was the entourage of cars!) and the car that struck him HOOTED SECONDS BEFORE DECIDING TO STRIKE FROM BEHIND!

The cyclist was in total right to do what he did . Yes, in a split second he may have concluded ''ooh, there may be more funeral cars to pass''
but on the same token he may have concluded
''I really need to legally turn right here, after legally signalling to do so, and judging a safe gap/distance to the next following car, which only a mental person would accellerate toward me and this traffic island at this particular point in my journey..'' ..and then done so accordingly.

An earlier comment was spot on. What if he wasnt riding a bike but was driving a car? Would the other car still have hit him? Very doubtful to say the least.
Why should it be any different for a cyclist?

If you think it should, you will simply never 'get it'.

Wow that's pretty shocking. I mean, even if maybe... just maybe... the cyclist had worked out that the car behind was following the funeral when the horn sounded, by that point it was too late and he'd have been knocked off anyway. The driver's inability to avoid that situation shows that either he was not fully in control of the car, or that he knocked the cyclist off with intention, both of which I would have thought commanded a stiffer response from the police. You get 3 points for running a red light, even if by accident and nobody gets hurt. The police offer's explanation is baffling - given that these are not emergency vehicles and again, there is no way he would have been able to tell who was following the funeral. Given he was turning right and the funeral was going straight on, he could reasonably expect the car behind to give way anyway, rather than attempt to run him down. Why were they so far behind? was the courtege going too fast? Overall, it looks like the police are trying to balance this out some how, given that the funeral / grieving relatives situation are seen by the police as mitigating circumstances. But I think this is the police being emotional - I'm not sure they are mitigating circumstances for needlessly running someone down on the roads. All of this nonsense about where he was on the road doesn't matter - you don't run him over simply because you can't get past. And all this 'the policeman is a cyclist' is irrelevant nonsense as well, as it was in the Emma Way incident. What makes you a cyclist? Cycling everyday or just once a year? Owning a bike? Cycling on the roads? It does make me wonder of the police are generally anti-bike, or if they've just decided it's one cyclist vs a larger number of funeral attendees.

An earlier comment was spot on. What if he wasnt riding a bike but was driving a car?

So if you substitute a cyclist for a motorbike does the argument still stack up?
No it doesn't.

Also how does he know if the person whose procession it was, was popular or not? I fully expect my funeral procession to be formed of a single tuktuk carrying the coffin and a moped following.

More than anything it's the first thing they say that really grinds my gears " we're going to a ****** funeral!" Again, it's the constant ****ing look at me everybody! We are priority, clear a space, move out of our way, we have children/ a dog/ had cancer in 2003/ have a slight limp/ am tall/ am short/ am wearing heels/ lost my mum 9 years ago/ suffer with depression/ had a heart attack when I was 31 and on and on it goes. We are special, everyone bloody bow to us immediately. We are entitled to special treatment.

Quite honestly, the moment she started bleeting on about her grandad being dead I would have just said good. Idiots.

GrahamS - Member

Ah so not actually by "the occupants are dressed" as you stated.

Someone asked a question and I gave an answer. That doesn't mean there aren't other answers to that question.
You're trying (in a disappointingly poor fashion) to discredit me by pretending I've changed my position when I haven't.
Don't do that.
It reduces your position to worthlessness, nothing.
It's also not very nice, and borderline trolling. 🙂

Okay. So when overtaken by a funeral car you should immediately abandon the road, presumably with a deftly executed sideways bunny hop onto the pavement? (not the easiest thing to do on a Brompton) Then presumably wait a few minutes till you can sure that no more mourners are coming?

Have I said that?
No.
You are hyperbolizing and moving the goalposts because that is the only way you'll score.

Question: should I do the same thing when driving? What if I can't get my car onto the pavement properly because someone has placed some children with faces there?

See above.

Now stop it or I'll start calling you names, and I'd rather not as the mods don't like that. 🙂

GrahamS - Member

If they wanted to maintain the procession then the lead cars shouldn't have f****** overtaken the cyclist!!!

THEY BROKE THE PROCESSION NOT HIM.

Calm down Graham, there is no need to shout.
It was not unreasonable for the procession to overtake a cyclist cycling so slowly.
Again, I haven't said the cyclist did break the procession, and haven't apportioned any blame to him.

Have a Horlicks.

'the policeman is a cyclist' is irrelevant nonsense as well

Owning a bike is the new "some of my best friends are black / brown / jewish / muslim / gay / swans"

starfanglednutter - Member

An earlier comment was spot on. What if he wasnt riding a bike but was driving a car?

Or indeed a motorbike?

Then the situation would not have occured.

(apologies for not seperating the quotes)

slimjim78 - Member

Forgive me Sbob

No need, I agree with your entire post, as I have made clear from the start.
Driver 100% wrong.
Cyclist 100% right.

I think some people just like arguing. 🙂

what about weddings, what do we do there?

or christenings? JESUS CHRIST WHY ISN'T ANYONE THINKING OF THE CHILDREN????

You're trying (in a disappointingly poor fashion) to discredit me by pretending I've changed my position when I haven't.

No, I'm not - you quite plainly claimed that your amazing observation skills would allow you to deduce which cars were part of the cortège by looking at how the occupants were dressed during your lifesaver check.

Hence why people called you a God.

Have I said that?
No.

Okay - you tell me then - if you'd been in that chap's position and realised you were now in the middle of a cortège with your right turn 20 seconds ahead of you - what would you have done exactly?

Seem to me that thinking [i]"I'll take my right turn and get out their way"[/i] is a perfectly reasonable response.

Now stop it or I'll start calling you names, and I'd rather not as the mods don't like that.

Rightly so - me attacking your weak argument is no reason for you to attack my weak character. 🙂

I'm considering running sbob over, just to make a point. Not entirely sure what that point would be, but it would definitively be a good one.