Forum menu
I've been toying with the idea of a custom Rourke gravel frame for a while and have touched base with them just to check what's possible.
Main reason is that I run canti/mini-V brakes and wish to continue doing so, which rules out virtually every other frame on the market except the Kinesis CX 1 which I currently own.
The Kinesis is actually fantastic fun, I don't really NEED to replace it, but it is slightly bodged, e.g. I have a massive stack of spacers AND riser-drop bars, just to compensate for the titchy headtube. Plus I'd much prefer to run the Kinesis as my dedicated CX bike.
Current thinking says I should go for slacker geometry than my CX bike, but if I already feel confident bombing down rocky landrover tracks and enjoy the fast handling, why would I go slacker? Reduced toe overlap? Compliance?
I would like to drop the BB, I think the Kinesis is 65mm drop, I'm wondering if there is any reason not to go for a 75mm drop, 10mm fewer spacers under the stem at the very least!
Am thinking 853 mainframe and 753 stays? Am sure Rourke would advise on that, just don't want to pester them again until I'm ready to put money down.
Paint job is a whole other thread, I'm thinking a sort of blue/white/silver fade... 😎
What size tyres are you thinking of?
I have 40mm right now and planned to stick with it to avoid complications at the chainstays, I'd probably also want to run 2x.
If I needed fatter I'd probably just use my 29er which I'm already adapting for rougher gravel trips
Persisting with rim brakes seems barmy in this day and age.
thinking out of the box
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Cinelli-HoBootleg-Grey-Soul-Bike-RRP-1499-99-Commuter-Adventure-Gravel/164353877432?hash=item26444125b8:g:JgEAAOSw2fheqAQG
run it up the flag pole
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/management-speak/
touch base, if the bottom bracket is too low
Persisting with rim brakes seems barmy in this day and age.
Nah, I've tested them in all the conditions I'm likely to ride in, I'm not Steve Peat and I don't confuse my gravel bike with an MTB so disc brakes offer me nothing except more weight, more cost, more noise, less adjustability. Appreciate I'm an odd outlier though and that others can't do without discs, I've just tried both and know which I prefer.
@paton - ok, ok, point taken, I'm spending too much time in management meetings at the moment, but surely 'touch base' isn't THAT pretentious? 😎
I do like the reference to BB height though, but since I could theoretically choose any BB drop I wanted, what's the harm in dropping it a bit, or are those articles above arguing that we should all run track bike BB drops in case we need to ride around some sort of perpetual berm?
Nah, I’ve tested them in all the conditions I’m likely to ride in, I’m not Steve Peat and I don’t confuse my gravel bike with an MTB so disc brakes offer me nothing except more weight, more cost, more noise, less adjustability. Appreciate I’m an odd outlier though and that others can’t do without discs, I’ve just tried both and know which I prefer.
I've only been to one cyclocross world cup. Not a lot of disc brakes about. Loads of social media stuff about it at the time. Lots of Teams saying that discs were great in the dry but offered less modulation in the wet, it was very wet.
Discs work for me live but let live
I am with you on rim brakes. I didn't need them either when I had a CX bike. I also don't really like the look of discs on road and CX bikes so I wouldn't have them.
I’ve only been to one cyclocross world cup. Not a lot of disc brakes about.
They're ubiquitous at CX races now, earplugs required at every wet corner! 😂
The simplest explanation is that I'm obviously just a sensitive little snowflake, and noisy brakes detract from the enjoyment of a ride way more than lack of braking power ever did, I have zero issue with occasionally just having to pull the brake lever harder or earlier.
Plus I'm besotted with that one titanium custom build with mini-Vs that I saw, just looked fast and purposeful.
Edit: sorry, I'm as guilty as the next man, but let's not turn this into a discs vs. rim brake thread, I've already started enough of those in the recent past! 😀
I have a Rourke and I love is. Full 853 road build. It's like riding a magic carpet. I travelled to Rourke from East Lothian for a full measurement and custom build.
I was on the phone a few weeks ago to them about a gravel build in 853 with disc brakes, not decided what way to get yet though.
No way would I entertain another "off roady" type of bike with rim brakes. A backwards step for sure.(sorry haha)
Full 853 road build. It’s like riding a magic carpet.
This attracts but also concerns me, how does a magic carpet ride translate to sideways flex under pedalling? I'm not worried about power transmission but am thinking tyre rub on chainstays.
This is why I thought 753 stays as I read they were stiffer.
A backwards step for sure.
For you maybe. The way I see it, why spend all that extra money on a technology that for me has created more problems than it has solved? (edit, sorry, missed your edit which changed the tone of the comment slightly 😉 )
It's stiff and fast for sure. It was built to be quick but the steel build takes away all of the road harshness.
It's eerie at first haha but it really is quiet and smooth but still surges when you stamp on it.
I run on Mavic open pro rims so I'm sure the account for some of that feel and faster wheels would make the thing even quicker, but really with a brooks and carradice bag on it it's barely 2/3 km/h slower than my Carbon road bike on most rides.
It has rim brakes !.
This is why I thought 753 stays as I read they were stiffer.
All steel is the same stiffness
Stronger steel like 853 can be used in thinner walled which are less stiff
All steel is the same stiffness
OP
I am sure Shand could knock you up a nice frameset (rim brakes) and they are just up the road from you #keepinitlocal 🙂
I am sure Shand could knock you up a nice frameset (rim brakes) and they are just up the road from you #keepinitlocal
I wish!
Contacted them a while ago, they told me they don't do cantilever frames any more because nobody wants them
Apparently I'm nobody 😉
Custom steel and rim bakes is a great combo. Not for everyone but arguably the best traits of steel frames and forks can be optimised by not making the compromises a disc brake needs, plus the slim tubes that can go with the rim brake aesthetic.
This attracts but also concerns me, how does a magic carpet ride translate to sideways flex under pedalling? I’m not worried about power transmission but am thinking tyre rub on chainstays.
It's kind of the same thing, the comfort and the flex. I have a road bike with trad tube sizes and if I go for it the mainframe flex/sway means the BB moves and I can hear the tyre brush the guard edge there. Shouldn't ever get tyre to CS rub though, there should be 5mm or so space to start with.
Apparently I’m nobody
Och that's a shame.
You wouldn't be tempted by a disc Stoater then?
I bet they could find you a brake set up that didn't squeal 😂
Thanks. It really is. I love it , I even wear my best 1970's stylee brown leather Dromarti shoes on it lol.
I think Reynolds 753 is thin wall heat treated 531 (ish), can only be silver soldered (or you get it too hot and trash the heat treatment). I also don't think they make or sell it anymore....
I presume you mean Reynolds 725? My stock list (2017) shows a good selection of 725 chainstays and seatstays. There is only a small selection in 853 (and that is mostly chainstays not seatstays). Any chainstay crimping / dimples are also very difficult in 853 because it just springs back (very high yield strength so it doesn't want to deform).
Thanks Mick, I knew there was some reason that 853 might not be appropriate for stays (and I even thought 753 didn't look right but was too lazy to check!).
Are you a frame builder?
The difficulty with canti-frames is have a chainstay that gives you a resilient ride, whilst not being so flexible your canti brakes don't work. A good builder should be able to advise.
Something also to look for with mini-vees with wider tyres don't open far enough to make is easy to get the wheel out without letting the tyre down. Also bear this in mind with rim choice. Again, a good builder would know what to do.
In terms of frame angles, there's a lot of great-handling gravel bikes with sub-70 head tube angles that don't steer like a boat / steering flop. It's nice to have a bit of stability at the end of a long day or if you have a handlebar bag.
I run one of my old titanium frames as a SSCX with a mini-vee rear and disc upfront - even a cable disc can be more assuring, particularly descending in the wet.
I Just play at making the occasional frame.
For cantis you need a decent seatstay bridge but guess you might sometimes want that for a mudguard anyway.
I try to keep most of the disc forces in the dropout and chainstay which allows fairly skinny seatstays. But it is all a big stiff triangle so isn't going to flex much anyway. Tyres, saddle and seatpost are most of the comfort.
Custom steel and gravel combined.
The black one is 12.7mm dia stays which would definitely be too flexy for cantis. Can't remember if the orange one is 14 or 16mm stays. The owner of the black one has done 3 peaks a few times and not broken it yet....
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/HspDp2JX/P1030889.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/HspDp2JX/P1030889.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/7bvk98HR/20210202-202926.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/7bvk98HR/20210202-202926.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
I'd just get a Richey Swiss Cross
Going by my Richey Logic, there won't be much flex. I'd reckon it'd be a bit lighter than a Shand, as well as being cheaper but you'd only have a choice of red.
EDIT:- Or a Rourke
Swiss cross looks lovely, no doubt about it, but Tom's idea of ample tyre clearance and MY idea if ample tyre clearance sadly differ ☹
Think a custom build with a Kinesis carbon fork would run to similar money anyway.
I thought the Swiss cross took 40mm tyres, big enough for me but I could see this being limiting if you want to go bigger or run mudguards.
Maybe the disc model! 😉
The canti model states 35mm rear with 43.5mm actual space between stays, so definitely wouldn't want to be stuffing a 40mm tyre into that gap!