Found a local frame builder who has a good reputation here. I've been in contact and his prices on a frame are fairly decenmt - around 800GBP for a basic frame - no forks though.
He has suggested Collumbus tubing - oversized for my bulk.
I know nowt about frame building, but I do know for that price he is quoting, even with some increase in cost, I can have a bike that actually fits.
For the fork, not sure if he builds them or not - any recommendations for off the shelf forks that take a rack?
Columbus from Italy is one of the leading tubing brands, along with Reynolds and Tange (Japan). Like anything bike related, nerds can argue forever about which is best. 🙄
As Columbus is a brand, they have various lines/grades at different materials, weights, butting, and price. [url= http://www.columbustubi.com/eng/4_4_1.htm ]Have a look.[/url] 🙂
Even if the builder has a great reputation, does he focus on the type of frame that you're looking for? For instance, a builder that makes fantastic road frames may be out of his element building a mountain bike.
He builds all sorts - road, mountain, weird scaffold framed folding bikes.
Basically I want a disc equipped drop bar bike that goes off road, takes a rack, and can tow by tag a long, but can just be taken out for my weekend riding as well.
Current bike is ok, but is too short a chain stay to take a rack with my big feet, and it isn't quite right - for the cost of custom here, I may as well get one made.
The other option is up north, - a custom bamboo frame
My Shand is Columbus (Life IIRC), it was better vfm than the big brands, its light and rides how I want.
I might want something bigger/stiffer for loaded riding.
Like anything bike related, nerds can argue [u]pointlessly[/u] forever about which is best.
FTFY 😀
Maybe Waltworks for custom forks?
I'm always puzzled by framebuilders who build frames but not forks.
Much simpler would be my guess @ben ? Frames more complex shaping and also non round tubing meaning its not cost effective for subset of buyers who want rigid ?
Not sure if your asking about a tubeset or forks, but I'd of thought if they can build a frame they can build some forks, cost being a separate issue. In terms of tubeset you'll probably get to sit down with the builder and discuss the merits of different tubes, what your requirements are and match a tube to your build.
He does forks, checked today - got to budget the build out.
However
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I could go true niche
You could start sounding like Dick Van Dyke too....
Much simpler would be my guess @ben ? Frames more complex shaping and also non round tubing meaning its not cost effective for subset of buyers who want rigid ?
The thing about forks is they've got a single point of failure - if your down tube snaps, you have a bit of time to stop usually. If your steerer snaps, you crash. I've heard some framebuilders say they're not confident building forks because of that - not saying that's the case here.
Only doing it as a hobby, I don't build forks at the moment for various reasons - the main one being as Ben describes above (and the day job involves breaking automotive things by fatigue, so I'm very aware how even little flaws can have big significance).
Other reasons:-
No jig.
Not got a beefy enough gas setup at home for heavy cast fork crowns.
Not done much with lugs so would need to do lots of practice parts to cut up and check for brass flow.
Not very clued up on available fork blades (esp what works with discs).
Too many things to get wrong with disc forks (too heavy and stiff vs too flexible, failures, resonances etc). I'd need time and money to experiment.
Saying all that, my next two projects (a 36 er and a modern lightweight recreation of a mate's vintage bike) will need custom forks so guess I've got to start learning 🙂
Yes, and for a hobbyist that's perfectly reasonable. I just worry about commercial builders who aren't confident enough in their abilities to build forks.
^ Have you done any work with Bamboo yet?
My initial inquiries have resulted in being able to have rack mounts fitted, disc brakes, and I would look cool/nobbish/weird
Me? No, I was always rubbish at woodwork at school, I prefer metal 😀
(Pedants: Yes, I know it's grass, not wood)
Columbus tubing is very good and really one of the main alternatives available in this country other than Reynolds and Deda. Generally slightly heavier than Reynolds tubing but considerably cheaper. I've built a large road frame in Columbus life that came out around 1500g.
Collumbus or Bamboo it is then
Generally slightly heavier than Reynolds tubing but considerably cheaper.
I ****ing hate moronic statements like that that end up on public forums.
Just replace the reynolds sticker with 4130 so it dont get nicked.
[img]slightly heavier than Reynolds tubing
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Cheers folks, good see it ending up in an argument.
The bamboo bike makers have been in contact a few times, my uber-nichness is calling strongly on that, but it would be a good bit more expensive than steel.
Any recommendations on types of bamboo to use?
Ask any zealot to blind test identical geo's with identical welds on slightly different tubesets.
There isn't a single person on this planet who has reportedly done so.
All you get is Edward saying his tubeset on his US import is significatnly better than the direct sales Taiwanese model (yet they have different geo's and tube profiles) but his is better by far. Irrespective of the fact that the worlds best framebuilders/Designers are in Taiwan and a lot of EU/US desingers are heavily influenced by the knowledge and skills of said Taiwenese experts.
But his is better. Because it says made in USA or UK.
More to the point. Those tests would have to be in a controlled lab to rule out external factors.
^ Mine will say Made in Bangkok or Made in Chaing Mai depending on which route I go.
Building forks...Shirley you buy pre bent blades, cut to length, braze it all together, done?
I'd wait a bit and get the new Ohlins fork, that's due out soon
No one considered [url= http://www.reynoldstechnology.biz/materials/steel/s-953/ ]Reynolds 953[/url] yet?
A friend has just received his custom 953 built rourke frame... bloody lovely
Man walks into a restaurant. Seriously. Walks into the kitchen and up to the chef and asks, “So where do you buy your meat?” Who would do that? Especially if you didn’t know your Rump Roast from a Porterhouse. Usually people choose a restaurant based on reputation and let the chef worry about the ingredients. But when it comes to bicycle frames, everyone wants to know what tubing is being used. This would make sense if customers had any knowledge about tubing beyond what they’ve read in magazines or in chat rooms, which is usually being written by someone who’s never built a frame. I always tell people to choose a builder they trust and not to worry about the tubing. Good builders know that you choose tubing based on what you’re building and for who rather than trying to use brand A over brand B. I don’t mind people asking, but before you do, ask yourself a couple things; what answer am I hoping for and why? Would there be an unacceptable answer? Do I trust Soulcraft to choose my tubing? In reality, the brand of tubing is one of the least important aspects of building a frame. I’m happy to tell you what I’ve used after I’ve built your frame, but I think it’s a subject that’s been hyped way too much and builders need to be trusted to make the choice for you.
- from Soulcraft bikes site.
There isn't a single person on this planet who has reportedly done so
Oh there was a very popular bike magazine did this back in the mid 90s the outcome I think was that no one actually gave a **** ...and they just rode the bikes, you can still find it online ,in fact i'm sure it was 7 maybe 8 frames from different builders
anyway some wizard can do it on a computer just pick your tubes and ask one of the super dooper framegus to weld it up for you
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705815014216
Columbus OS with whatever carbon fork you like the look of. Bamboo too many unknowns especially if your a big bloke.
I wonder when Soulcraft wrote that? It's quite common for decent restaurants nowadays to talk about the provenance of their meat - the breed, how and where it was raised, and why.
It's also common in the bass world for customers to discuss wood choices with luthiers when buying custom instruments.
However a tubing brand means little - what matters is the specific alloy and how it is used.
A decent custom frame builder will know to mix tubing brands, using their unique qualities to give the best combination of strength, weight and ride quality based upon the rider, the type of riding they do and the area of the frame that the tube is being used for.
A £800 budget seems reasonable but that would be under the assumption that the tubing you choose is either stocked or well used by your frame builder. A bundle of Columbus for example can cost a few £k so unless he plans to use it for other builds your budget may change once you have settled on a choice of tubes.
I wonder when Soulcraft wrote that? It's quite common for decent restaurants nowadays to talk about the provenance of their meat - the breed, how and where it was raised, and why.
Went to a great place near rotterdam, where you have a discussion with the chef: pick your meat and discuss how & what method to cook it. not even that expensive.
soulcraft, sounds a bit like mcDs in comparison. actually it's worse, McDs make a big deal out of 100% british beef.
alextemper who told you that....a framebuilder?
You can buy Columbus tubing by the tube ffs.
Several. Maybe depends on the type.
McDs make a big deal out of 100% british beef
Isn't '100% British Beef" the company though, not what they put in their products. 😉
I never paid any heed to what tubing my Soulcraft was made from, I filled in my measurement details and spoke to Matt n' Sean a fair number of times and then left him to get on with it, without doubt the frame built up into the best riding bike i have ever owned, and then 3 years later i broke it but Ben repaired it with the same Columbus down tube as the original - most likely for sale very soon as it's still not built up, I'd love to be able to ride off road like i used to but seeing as my leg strength is getting less and less i'll have to be happy with my coming Scott Genius 710 E-bike
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Alex - several framebuilders are fibbing to you then 🙂 Probably just a case of easier and faster to build using whatever they have suitable on the shelf. You can definitely buy tubes individually. I've never ever had to buy a Columbus tubeset or a bundle. Minimum order direct from Reynolds was also pretty small last time I enquired (1 or 2 frames worth).
Did Ben have to clean off the blood Kenny?
Since when is saying Columbus tubing is slightly heavier than Reynolds a moronic statement? Get the spec sheets from the manufacturers and you will clearly see that Reynolds is the lightest. Columbus is also tons cheaper to buy and can be easily bought by the individual tube. I know this as I have bought both and built frames with both. Now whether saying the difference in weight is relevant is a different story. I would agree that it isn't noticeable but in cycling we love to save a few 100g here and there. Just because you want a steel frame doesn't mean you don't care about weight.
I felt it only right to clean off the blood before i gave it to him 🙂 ,
1789g for the frame with seat post shim btw
I'm waiting for that comment to be explained or expanded on too woody74.
Well the steel is the same density so any weight difference is only in the tube dimensions that the manufacturers are happy to use....
I don't think you can really trust the spec sheets. The Columbus weights are for a cut tube for the average road frame - whatever that means. If you're cutting the maximum / minimum from a butted tube then the weight is going to be very different.
Columbus Zona is pretty cheap but not sure what you'd compare it directly with from Reynolds. Similarly 853 has no direct Columbus equivalent. And everybody's stainless is expensive!
Man walks into a restaurant. Seriously. Walks into the kitchen and up to the chef and asks, “So where do you buy your meat?” Who would do that?
I've an Italian friend who I've witnessed do this repeatedly. Well, twice, and only in Italian restaurants.
Since when is saying Columbus tubing is slightly heavier than Reynolds a moronic statement?
Since the beginning of time?
All steel tubes drawn to the same specification weigh the same. Doesn't matter where it comes from. It's material science.
Seriously though, if you mean a lighter tube from Reynolds weighs less than a heavier tube from Columbus then you're probably correct.
alextemper - unbiased sources then?
And Somafunk is your breaking a 1.8kg custom frame meant to be a recommendation?
There are no stupid questions
And Somafunk is your breaking a 1.8kg custom frame meant to be a recommendation?
You didn't see what he rode into - the frame came off better than his face......
Think you should probably ask him about how he broke it Al, don't think the weight of the frame was much of a factor in that particular breakage given the circumstances
I doubt many frames would survive a 20mph+ impact with a horizontal metal bar 18" from ground level so that'd be a [i]yes[/i] to your question
Edit : I imagine a spoon built frame would survive though 😉
Son the impact would have broken any frame...and this is a recommendation for the Soulcraft?
I am amazed at the myth built around custom frames
Son the impact would have broken any frame...and this is a recommendation for the Soulcraft?
I am amazed at the myth built around custom frames
spoke to Matt n' Sean a fair number of times and then left him to get on with it, without doubt the frame built up into the best riding bike i have ever owned,
Seems to me that the recommendation was in regards to how the bike rode not anything to do with the circumstances of it's demise
The fact that he went on to get it repaired is another pretty good recommendation, if it was no good or nothing special I imagine most people we be content to scrap it, but wanting to get it repaired is a glowing endorsement in my eyes
quite common for decent restaurants nowadays to talk about the provenance of their meat - the breed, how and where it was raised, and why.
That's because they're pandering to the middle class tits eating said meal who want to feel like some kind of connoisseur and mildly superior for eating in the aforementioned establishment.
For what it's worth I'm so cool I won't eat meat when in a restaurant as the chef never cooks it as well as I do at home.
Building forks...Shirley you buy pre bent blades, cut to length, braze it all together, done?
I bend my own 😉
Columbus and Reynolds both make good tubes - neither is better than the other, you choose the tubes you want for the frame you're building. I quite often mix Columbus, Reynolds, Deda and 4130 depending on what I'm doing.
I am amazed at the myth built around custom frames
what is the myth?
For me to get a bike that fits me means importing it myself - this can mean anything between 7% and 30% duty plus 7% tax depending on what robbing customs official I get. Bringing a complete bike in can be 30-100%.
I'm 193cm tall, with freaskishly long legs, and a short body, XL frames on road bikes generally fit my legs, but not my torso.
There are a couple of bike fit places in the city that are reasonably priced - 30 to 50 GBP, that would give me a better idea of the frame dimensions I could look for. I could then spend months pouring over frames and bike specs, not a bad thing to do, order a bike and pick it up in the summer.
Either that I could have someone build a frame for me, sneak all the component through the post, as customs never seem to tax them, and have my own custom bike - powder coated in some lurid chrome and eye piercing yellow with a purple fizz.
I love my current bike, but it isn't quite right in fit, and I've bought, stems, seat posts, bars new tape etc several times now, but it's still not quite there.
Besides, I want to use my shipping allowance in the summer to bring my old original voodoo wanga over with me
I was enquiring about swapping out a cracked top tube on my Roberts and this was the answer I received back. So either Chas Roberts was using a unique or special type of Columbus 18 odd years ago or the builders in question were taking the p1ss or didn't really want to do the work. I guess fillet brazing would put some poeple off.
I can't see Chas Roberts being scared of a bit of fillet brazing. It's possible that he was getting specially drawn tubes from Columbus for something or other, that might explain the stock thing, but normal Columbus and Reynolds tubes are easily available.
18 years ago there were a great deal more columbus tubes I had a max OR frame and it had SLX tubes, those tubes were obsolete in the 90s so maybe they Just never had tubes left.
http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/columbus/columbuschart.htm
The hole framebuilder being special is bobbins maybe 20-30, maybe 40, years ago but today it's like hipster special coffee.
The myth is that they are somehow WAY better than off the shelf frames with similar tubing (not for odd sized people and for issues).
The fact that he went on to get it repaired is another pretty good recommendation
Yes but based on what-he loved his custom frame he spent a mint on. Entirely subjective.
Be done interestedly to know why you mix tubing?
Be done interestedly to know why you mix tubing?
Me? Because different manufacturers make different things, and sometimes a tube isn't available at all from Columbus or Reynolds, so I use seamless 4130.
Especially long lengths of tubing - the 50mm stuff for recumbents is only available in 4130. Columbus make long lengths of some tubes in smaller diameters which are handy for other things, but most bike tubes are cut and butted for conventional bike frames, which is a bit limiting for what I build.
I like the Reynolds tubing decals.
Quirrel
If you are an odd body shape and require a frame size that no one makes then custom makes sense
cynical-al
I don't think it's not harder to build a fork than a frame. As Mike-R says its knowing that the brazing has really worked. As a victim of a fork failure it really is more serious than a frame failure
Oh and don't forget that as well as brazing the tubes into the lug it'll need a tube fitted into the base of the steerer to allow to allow for the stress riser where the crown race sits. Or maybe these days the butt at the base of the steerer is thick enough not to need internal reinforcement
Interesting Ben, (and well done for seeing past the typo), not the oft spouted "to get the perfect ride".
Chas Roberts built the frame (DOGSBOLX) so he did the brazing. Was in reference to the other frame builders being put off. Unfortunately Roberts are on sabbatical but are reachable so I need to see if they can point me in a direction. Anyway I digress...
Roberts was Columbus Max I seem to remember. Ovalised tubeset - not sure exactly what size was used, but still might be available at Ceeway. There is a top tube listed in 3 different lengths.
There might have been MAX OR for mtbs which was maybe thicker wall (but there isn't really such a thing as a "road / mtb tube" - just different diameters, thicknesses and lengths that you apply to different applications).
http://www.framebuilding.com/Max.htm
Otherwise just get a round or "Megatube" Zona one fitted - it is the same steel alloy and you'll really not notice the ride difference. Buying your own 31.7mm single tube would be less than £25 plus VAT plus post. Hacksaw out the old tube if you really want to know what it's internal dimensions were.....
http://www.framebuilding.com/ZONA.htm
Al - custom isn't just for odd shaped people - with the advent of more widespread fatigue safety testing, plenty of lighter riders could be safely running frames much lighter than off the peg Inbreds, P7s etc.
e.g. My lad's 14" mtb (just one butted tube - the rest is plain gauge cromo) is well over 1lb lighter than a 14" Inbred (butted 4130).