Out of interest what sort of daily budget would you allow for paid accomodation, and food with cafe stops etc?
Anyone who has toured like this (but not so minimalist) did/do you have an allowance in mind.
Interested as I may think of taking a few weeks of steady touring in the UK, but would need to be using paid for accomodation.
I suppose You could post yourself little parcels ahead to each stop, toiletries + civvies and a pair of flip-flops.
^^I did that on a LEJOG (7days) ,also had the return postage sorted for sending back dirty washing.
All the places I stayed were fine about posting it for me as I usually left before shops were open. Took a decent rainjacket, and my cycling shoes (SPDs) were fine for short walks in the evenings.
I guess that there's quite a lot of grey area kit - stuff you might be able to do with out but would really wish you'd brought if it turns out you need it; I'd include a reasonable lock in this.
I guess if (as you said OP) cost is no issue and traveling light is the main goal then simply pack a musette/basic lightweight cotton shoulder bag and a bike lock?
Go to the major supermarket nearest your hotel each night, whip round it and fill that musette with the cheap clothes and toiletries needed for your evening, essentially it's just a bag for life you can sling over your shoulder. jump back on the bike and ride to the hotel.
In the morning you leave everything you bought the previous night behind/bin it and repeat at your next destination that night.
Incredibly wasteful of course, but if money is no object and you're just spanking the plastic then this is as minimal as you can really go...
I’d include a reasonable lock in this
PJay
As the bike was always indoors/secure at night ,I just took a short length of cable(stainless steel) with a shackle for the few short stops at cafe/shops.
Mols, I've done as you suggest but single night only - staying in youth hostels (only working 2 days ahead makes weather planning much easier). Taking only what I would on a normal day ride with the bare minimum for overnight. Key Learning Point: A mechanical can mean you arrive in a remote location after the local shop has shut, and the only restaurant is a bit posh for sweaty mess in lycra and spd shoes! [This risk will probably be less if you are riding roads - where presumably you can divert to shops on route]
Other things to consider:
1. You don't need a full charger just a USB cable - even TVs usually have a USB socket you can hi-jack. I would take a powerbank though (you can buy ready to use ones in large supermarkets if you are desperate!).
2. If going to hostels or other very basic places you may need a towel. There are very small microfibre "camping" ones that sort of work. For the space, I'd take some liquid soap too - and try it out on the fabric that will be in touch with your intimate areas so you know it leaves you comfortable!
3. Also, you mentioned heading to France. Not sure what they are like with credit cards - but just back from Netherlands and a surprising number of places would not take "Credit Cards" (this seemed to include UK Visa Debit cards - Maestro only). I've experienced similar issues in Germany pre-covid.
4. After a long day in the saddle, a quest to get food, the last thing I am in the mood for is cleaning bikes/bike kit etc - but discipline to have that all done before you go to bed will make the next day easier. Factor that time into your planning.
I’ve experienced similar issues in Germany pre-covid.
Yeah I've had that, either cash only or German cards only. None of your Johnny foreigner cards.
as above, you seem to be applying ultra-distance racing criteria to credit card touring 🙂
Yes, of course.
I'm not asking what the best way to tour is, or how much stuff I should take to have a good time. This is a very specific challenge which is not general touring.
Surely the joy of touring is exploring, popping out in the evening for beers and a meal and enjoying where you are?
That kind of touring is fun, yes. This is not that kind of touring, it's different.
It sort of defeats the point of going on a tour if you just end up camped in a hotel room each night
As above - the point of this specific exercise is NOT to spend any time in a hotel room other than sleeping and eating room service or a takeaway. So there is no need for other clothes. The point of this tour is not to relax and have a good time, it's to ride as much as possible. Why? For the hell of it.
arrive in a remote location after the local shop has shut
Yeah this is a good point. It depends on having that sort of hotel and that sort of takeaway available. So in the UK it would involve stopping at a large-ish town each night. It'd be a lot harder in France, due to distances and more rural areas I think.
What about bike bag for the flight back home?
Good question. Either ride back home, or do what I did in Schipol. I'd always wanted to ride to an airport, so I did and bought a bike box from the KLM desk. It was absolutely huge, designed to take a bike with wheels on which it did perfectly. Just dropped it in whole. Throwing the box away at the other end was more of a challenge.
Sounds like Audax to me. Even hardcore audaxers take a few home comforts. You have to be comfortable (not just on the bike) to keep spirits up etc. Even a full set of off the bike clothes weights practically nothing, and easily goes in a bar bag or similar.
How many days in a row?
I think I understand what you’re aiming for, but if it’s more than overnight (two days riding) I really think you’re risking making a rod for your own back. Not least taking out all the contingency/resilience you might need to deal with anything that doesn’t go as planned.
I’ve done three to five day tours with just pockets & a 5 litre seat pack. second pair of bibs (I’d take a second jersey too but it’s less important), running shorts, light t shirt and and flip flops. Clean kit which is actually dry is great.
You don’t *need* these things, I admit, but for the sake of a seat pack (which is no faff) your evening, no matter how short, can be pleasant rather than something to be endured. You can go to the bar or eat out rather than being limited to room service which is often poor. You can deal with bad weather or poor facilities much more easily. You’ll be more comfortable, which for me means more enjoyment!
If it’s really about riding as much as possible, then just ride. Don’t stop. If you do want to stop, you’ll ride far better the next day with a tiny amount of kit in a tiny seat pack. And it will not change your speed, or how the bike feels.
Why carry toilet paper when leaves and moss literally grow on trees? (or in the undergrowth).
Take a sturdy tyre lever for digging the hole.
Credit/debit card a must. Plus a new plastic £20note doubles as emergency money and a tyre tear patch.
I'd always have a waterproof, this is the UK after all. Can be used as the warm layer too.
Plus a buff, too many uses to list.
Small roll of insulation tape as first aid kit.
Take a space blanket, if you have a disaster and need to wait in the cold.
Why carry toilet paper when leaves and moss literally grow on trees? (or in the undergrowth).
Plus a buff, too many uses to list.
Need I say more?
You’ll be more comfortable, which for me means more enjoyment!
Yeah you're not getting the concept...
for your plan you'd need to be on the bike, what, 14 or 15 hours a day? thats just not sustainable for multiple days, so if you're having time off the bike, may as well make it more comfortable. The weight won't make any material difference to how far you can go.
for your plan you’d need to be on the bike, what, 14 or 15 hours a day? thats just not sustainable for multiple days
I reckon that's plenty sustainable. But I think you'd struggle to get 14-15 hours in, by the time you've dealt with the faff of finding restaurants/waiting for food, sorting hotels out, washing kit, etc.
for your plan you’d need to be on the bike, what, 14 or 15 hours a day? thats just not sustainable for multiple days
Not sustainable for you
Poor @molgrips, everyone is trying to turn it into their tour 🙂
FWIW I think the idea of an emergency blanket/foil bivvy bag is a good call. An extended roadside mechanical when wet could be uncomfortable or worse. The problem is that all these good wee ideas soon add up though!
You’ll be more comfortable, which for me means more enjoyment!
Yeah you’re not getting the concept…
I’m trying!
Let me slightly rephrase: You’ll be *slightly* more comfortable…
I’m not suggesting taking suitcases. Or panniers. Or a backpack. A small seat pack & minimal gear with you isn’t an admission of failure.
From what you said it’s about riding being the priority… in which case taking another pair of shorts may well help. If they’re clean and dry you may ride further before struggling. Your first pair can be dry again for day three!
I can certainly say that I would carry (have carried) a second pair.
If it’s about being actively uncomfortable there *loads* of other ways you can chose to make that happen.
You asked what a prudent minimum level of gear was. You can still ride extremely far & for most of the day whilst ‘having fun’ being part of the aim. Making the trip troublesome and doing it in wet shorts just so you can say “I’m travelling without luggage” isn’t what I think you should plan to do.
I also know how terrible a failed trip feels. Having enough with you to cope with problems or unexpected events seems wise
Can i be the first to say you are bonkers?
My concerns are around what happens when something goes wrong. Extra warm layer and waterproofs are imo essential for safty. Crash or mechanical breaking the bike on a windy rainy day and hypothermia is not far away
My concerns are around what happens when something goes wrong. Extra warm layer and waterproofs are imo essential for safty. Crash or mechanical breaking the bike on a windy rainy day and hypothermia is not far away
To be fair the same would apply to a big (single) day out. Likewise the lock for popping into shop / cafe / loo seems prudent for both scenarios. Beyond washing yourself and your kit, there doesn't seem a lot more you need. I don't think anyone's mentioned energy drink, unless you're a water-only type rider, some SIS tablets might be needed. On the other hand they're threatening 40 degrees in England and it's a month since it rained here, so I'm not sure I'd worry about being without a waterproof round here this week.
Assuming a tour is a greater investment of time, money and time off work, I'd expect most people would want to carry more tools / spares than usual to ensure that a mechanical doesn't ruin your plans. On the other hand if you're reasonably near civilization, perhaps just calling a taxi to the nearest bike shop negates spares beyond a tube an a qucklink?
I still think you're mad for not at least having shorts to change into as soon as you're off the bike, if not alternating the kit you wear, but you seem happy 🤷♀️
As a suggestion, given @molgrips thinks people aren't 'getting' the point/question, why don't you rephrase the question?
Tell us what you are planning / hypothesising to do ... and then ask what the minimum essential kit is we think you should take?
The title 'credit card touring' does seem to imply something different to what your subsequent posts indicate? Touring suggests 'sightseeing' (to an extent) by bike, which in turn implies 'enjoyment'? But your subsequent posts suggest this is not so, more that its some kind of scaled down individual trans continental challenge, or a multi-day ITT?
So. Would be good to know:
- where you are going? (Gear for Scotland in the autumn will be very different to what is needed in southern France in the summer)
- how long are you going for? 3 days? 3 weeks? 3 months?
- what's the challenge, aim, priority for the trip?
- who's going? Just you?
- do you have a rough route in mind? How frequently are you likely to be going through well populated areas? Can you pretty much guarantee hotels, restaurants, shops, whenever you need them, or is that very much in doubt?
- road/gravel/fully offroad?
Etc ...?
In addition to your usual bike stuff, I'd try to carry a little bit of chain lube - although I've heard of people using olive oil sachets from cafes and stuff in a pinch.
for your plan you’d need to be on the bike, what, 14 or 15 hours a day? thats just not sustainable for multiple days
Moley is much fitter and younger than me and on the scottish tour I did 3x12+ hr days in a row followed by a 9 hrvday
Long days are all about pacing and determination
Aidy. Molgrips is a putoliner. No need. Im a month and a thousand miles since doing mine and its still fine
I am too, but I've still found it useful after some particularly wet days - and it's still useful for lubing cables/mechs etc.
Perhaps I'm just over paranoid now, but I've had a few really annoying mechanicals that wouldn't have been a thing with a bit of lube earlier on.
Have a read of Tim Moore's "French Revolutions".
Being a softie I'd definitely say a warm later. Even on hot summer days they're often vital e.g. eating your takeaway late evening when it's windy or early dampish start. Went to Spain as a student and didn't take my helly off for the first four days as it rained so much. N. Spain is green for a reason.
I guess if passing through towns you could pop into a charity shop at ten to 5 each day to buy a jumper and then just pass it forward as you go. You can easily carry a jumper tied round your waist for a couple of hours.
Also definitely cash (a couple of £20 notes or whatever the local currency is). Then the you really need food / drink in that cafe at the back of beyond or village shop miles from anywhere is the one that doesn't take cards.
Here is an idea. You know those golf trolleys that are electric and follow the player around? Combine that with ebike tech and those delivery drones and you could get your luggage to follow you. All the speed and lightness of molgrips approach with all the comfort of mine🤣🚴♂️🚴♂️🚴♂️😎👌
I’d take some normal clothes, 1 t shirt, some v thin trousers, and some off bike shoes, to make restaurant trips more comfy.
And spare riding kit, shorts/top/socks.
Putting something on while still damp is definitely not the same as riding through a puddle, although if you’re in france (hot) it may not actually be an issue.
Or following up on TJs idea you could post overnight gear to the hotel in advance and then post it home again in the morning.
Hermes / Evri is so reliable that you could just use their next day service. What could go wrong.
Easier still the powered van and gear service from Sherpa vans or similar. Credit card style tour with a full glamping setup delivered to your chosen campsite each evening. Job done.
I'd also take a spare gear cable, and I'd probably want a pump with a pressure gauge.
Basically working on a principle of how much bulk it added vs the amount of faff it would cause me if I needed it and didn't have it.
As a suggestion, given @molgrips thinks people aren’t ‘getting’ the point/question, why don’t you rephrase the question?
It's hypothetical. If I ever did this, which I might, it would only be for a week or less. And yes, it would be like an extended ITT type ride. Maybe something like a LeJog, but the problem with that is that you'd need more clothing contingency even in summer for the Scottish part; the accommodation is more spread out and might be full of holiday makers. There's far more likely to be spaces available at the Holiday Inn Swindon for example.
Basically, I'd want to fit everything in jersey pockets. So what's possible given that constraint?
Can I also just mention cargo shorts? 😉
It depends on how much discomfort you can put up with and how much risk.
A week sounds feasable but not much fun
You could use warmshowers for accommodation
Sorry to keep banging on, but…
It’s hypothetical. If I ever did this, which I might, it would only be for a week or less. And yes, it would be like an extended ITT type ride…
(Snip)
Basically, I’d want to fit everything in jersey pockets. So what’s possible given that constraint?
Even the guys doing the ITTs don’t just use pockets! A bit more kit will make it a more successful process I think. You could travel lighter the the Transcontinental riders do since you wouldn’t need bivvy kit, but other stuff would be worthwhile!
Lock?
Have you read Journey to the Centre of the Earth? That's a great book and a good guide to how little you need for road(ish) touring.
Points above about evening wear count if you're credit card touring, esp if not booking ahead. I used to take some thin zip-off trousers and a travel shirt that could be used on the bike plus some flipflops and a book. You'll need to be at the B+B early evening to get a room so you have more time to spend in the place vs more of an Audax attitude long distance tour when you might still be riding at 10-11pm.
Keep thinking along these lines, of ways to mix the 2, as I have a lovely steel audax / road bike that doesn't ride as well with much more than ~3kg of luggage. I was leaning towards the really minimal racing kit approach and short but more frequent (than racing) stops, heading to east/central France during a period of good weather. Use a B+B every few nights to get better rest. If the weather's bad - bus stop or B+B + just be prepared to spend a bit more.
Just to return to an earlier point. Looking after your arse is critical for multi day touing. I generally have an arse like rhino hide and dont even bother with padded lycra for rides of 3hrs or so but despite bing very careful and using a fresh clean pair of shorts every day and showering daily i have ( fortunately minor) bacterial infections on my arse
A second pair of shorts imo is essential to minumise the risk.
I'd be going with
Aero helmet
Aero jersey
Merino base
2 bibs
Arm and knee warmers
Toe things
Shakedry
Maybe something insulated depending on weather (rapha polartec alpha gilet I think)
Buff
Mitts
Glasses
Wahoo element
Phone
Wired headphones
2 water bottles
Usb leads
Powerpack
Toothbrush
Chamois cream
Suncream / lipsalve
Paste in a baggy
150g of gym shorts and tank and maybe flipflops (not if only room SVC)
Inner tubes
Multitool
Pump or co2
Levers
Chain quicklink
1-2 Zip ties
Tiny bit of smoove to top up my waxed chain if going over 1500km
I'd depend on shops for first aid / anything else. Maybe take a few electrolyte tabs if weather hot and I got stuck.
That'd all go in a 5-7l seat pack and a small frame bag (which actually make your bike more aero ironically).
Food in jersey pockets for the day and bought each day. If you were being a tart you could put a top tube bag on like the ironman nerds.
Oh and absolutely fitting TT clipons.
Basically you want to take what the gbdivide people win the race taking.
On second thoughts if you really want to cover the distance you need lights that will last a full period of darkness wherever you're going, that way you can do day-night-day-sleep(charge)-repeat. Or a dynamo and you can extend this.
You’ll be using the credit card to buy a train ticket home by day 3 🙂
I was thinking about this the other day - but for off road riding. The dream is a multi day lap of the lakes. It is probably going to remain very much a dream only for me.
The crux of the matter is, carrying enough stuff to survive, without ruining the experience of the mtbing. A big ride, a pub lunch, and another big ride after, for multiple days, while retaining a socially acceptable level of odour and arse dirtyness.
I wouldn't do it on the road, for the simple reason that that sort of road riding holds no interest for me. My road bike is long since sold, but shorter rides with high levels of effort/exertion for the speed and/or climbing were what I enjoyed.
Very much incompatible with the premise of riding all day and thus needing to ration/conserve your energy. Plus, very much influenced by current weather, the idea of wearing padded shorts plonked on a saddle all day, eugh.
You’ll be using the credit card to buy a train ticket home by day 3
Quite possibly 🙂
Not sure it would be so minimal off-road tbh. You might get dirty which could cause problems when checking into accommodation and the like.
I flew to Geneva with my Dad, with our bikes in cardboard boxes. We ditched the boxes and cycled back through the Pyrenees and came back on the ferry from Santander to Plymouth.
We each took one of big alpkit saddle bags. Bearing in mind the weather is changeable in the mountains, and it isnt always possible to clean and dry your kit over night, and we wanted to eat out in the evenings, and didnt want sunburn or infected groins, my packing list is below.
Bag:
Bib Shorts
Jersey
Light rain jacket
L/S Base layer
Cycling cap
Neck tube
Velotoze shoe covers
Chamois cream sachets
Swiss Army knife
Zip ties
Phone charger
Computer charger
Toothbrush & paste
Suncream
Chain oil
Ibruprofen
Germoline
Wear on plane:
S/S Shirt
Shorts
Flip flops
Boxers
Socks
Headphones
Passport
Print out of itinerary
Ferry tickets
Boarding passes
Credit cards
Jersey Pockets:
Arm Warmers
Gillet
Phone
Gels x2
multi tool
Spare tubes x 2
puncture kit
Chain links
Wear on bike:
Gloves
Helmet
Computer
Sunglasses
Shoes
Socks
Bib shorts
Jersey
Vest
HR strap
So 2 jerseys and 2 bib shorts....
