Yeah, except it isn't a small minority is it. It used to be a small minority but as dog ownership has exploded and become the norm - i.e you're walking without a dog and people are looking at you suspiciously because you haven't got a pooch, why on earth would you be out walking otherwise....since we got to peak dog then its no longer just a few bad apples but a general level of dog owning incompetence.
HC Rule 56
Yep, most people seem oblivious to the rules; I posted the link to that section of the Highway Code earlier in this thread last year. It's even worse since then - people just seem to think shared used paths are the absolute best place to take an animal and let it loose. Why not just take it to any of the other thousands of miles of paved footpath that we're not allowed to ride on? Or better still, get your pristine boots muddy for once in your lives and let doggo enjoy a field or two. Safely, of course.
i.e you’re walking without a dog and people are looking at you suspiciously because you haven’t got a pooch, why on earth would you be out walking otherwise
Is this really a thing? Dog ownership does look like it's exploded recently, with the number growing from 10 million to 11 million in the last 4 years alone ( https://www.pdsa.org.uk/what-we-do/pdsa-animal-wellbeing-report/paw-report-2023/pet-populations). But that still means the majority of the population don't have dogs and I think it's bizarre for anyone to assume you'd only go for walks to walk the dog.
@munrobiker This whole episode really sucks, and I wish you a full recovery. You inspired me with how strong you were up those hills in the Pentlands 6 months ago, so it's even more humbling for me to know you were far from peak form then.
HC Rule 56
Yep, most people seem oblivious to the rules;
I should imagine most pedestrians don't realise there are rules in the Highway Code which apply to them. Why should they, has anyone ever told them?
that is a tough year. I hope your recovery picks up and is complete
I know this may sound controversial or anti-dog and doesn’t actually help, but I’m amazed that it is permitted to let dogs off of leads in public places (aside from areas that are specifically for dogs). It is very rare in my experience that an off lead dog is actually under the slightest control.
Well, according to the thread on the other forum you should be happy about the scars.
It’s also reasonable, as many have said, to expect owners of dogs and children to keep them close at hand and under control at all times –
Its actually a legal responsibility. Not doing so is a criminal offense
It is very rare in my experience that an off lead dog is actually under the slightest control.
I regularly ride on a shared use path used a lot by dogwalkers. The majority of dogs are under control - a large majority either on a lead of under the control of the owner. Its just the out of control ones are more obvious - you do not notice the old collie just plodding along minding its own business. You notice the one that runs at you barking
Twpo pals of mine have had well trained dogs that were never on a lead and always under control
I hope you have sued the arse off the owner. they and you deser4v e it. compensation for that sort of injury is a significant amount.
..
One thing that was happening before I started on the meds was every time I saw a dog on a ride I would get a genuine, deep feeling of fear, then anger for the rest of the ride. Given how many dogs you're likely to see on a normal ride from central Edinburgh, this basically ruined every ride for me. It was no way to get through life.
Even now I definitely react to dogs more strongly, and I would say on an average ride along the Water of Leith from Slateford to Balerno only about a quarter of the dogs are on leads or properly at heel. I notice every single one - my body goes tense and I get a flutter of fear every time I see a dog.
I ended up cycling on a busy A road to get where I wanted to be instead - despite it being much more dangerous when looked at rationally, my brain just could not take using shared use paths and getting fully stressed out about it. Fortunately now I'm able to manage my reactions better and use the shared paths again.
That's actually pretty reasonable. Your brain and body relate dogs to what happened, of course it will want to avoid them.
I had a dog rush out on me on a local tootle last night. Scared the crap out of me as it was hidden by a hedge, and it got damn close to being a fall/hitting the thing. Owner was 50m up the road and unaware. Apparently 'the dog never does that'....
I know this may sound controversial or anti-dog and doesn’t actually help, but I’m amazed that it is permitted to let dogs off of leads in public places (aside from areas that are specifically for dogs).
AFAIK over here (Sweden) it's illegal to be off the leash in most built up areas/within most city and town limits except in a dedicated area like a dog park or enclosed private garden (not sure of the exact wording, i don't have a dog).
And during the spring and summer (March to August ish) it's illegal for them to be off the leash in the countryside as well. Unless they are hunting dogs, actually on a hunt (Again, not 100% sure on wording).
No one seems to complain, except those who don't really want to look after their dog. And probably shouldn't have one.
What I would advise is , start your discussions with the dog owners in a friendly manner, if you go in claiming their dog was out of control etc etc , it is likely to make them defensive and you are then in a situation where they dig in and refuse to co operate .
Luke - get some counseling and add that to the bill you are suing them for.
Your head injury is serious and worth a lot in compensation. Many thousands into some tens of thousands.
Fortunately I'm able to get counselling through work (and have been doing), but I may end up getting some CBT sessions.
So sorry to read all of this; as a cyclist who regularly uses the WoL, a dog owner and a fellow PCS sufferer.
Your instinctive reactions are understandable, I had an accident on the road earlier in the year, and took me a good few commutes to get my nerve back when cars passed closely.
For my own part, on shared use paths like the WoL, if I see someone walking without a dog, but with a lead etc. I'll slow down and go on high alert for a possible surprise, and move away from the edges if possible.
Hope the head is improving, I had a really bad one 3 years ago and I'm not back to where I was before, doubt I ever will be. Pm if you like, I'm in Ratho so assume fairly local.
Sue them till the pips squeak. Don’t be squeamish about the personal injury even if minor, that’s just the rules of the game and they are the ones upping the ante, you’re well justified in retaliating within the law.
For future reference, is there a specific insurance for cycling-related problems? British Cycling? Or just ask your household insurance?
My household insurance would have covered it but I've found using a lawyer to be more flexible than insurance, and more personal. As issues have arisen it's been easy to go back to them in a way I've not found insurers to be.
Not just a UK issue....
So just had a call from my wife. Her brother (who lives in Holland) has just done exactly the same thing as the OP. Cycling to work on a cycle path, out of control off the lead dog ran in front of him and he went over the bars. Luckily, because he is a MTBer and its kinda ingrained unlike many in Holland he was wearing a helmet but he's still in hospital with 4 broken ribs, broken fingers and possibly a separated shoulder. Its a huge problem as he is the main carer for his disabled son.
He knows the dog owner apparently as it was just a few hundred meters from his work and its a huge dog looked after by a young girl who can't hold it back when it wants to run.
I'm not sure if there is compulsory dog insurance in Netherlands - but this, the OP's situation and countless dog bites like mine is a strong argument for its introduction!
I live in Longstone and have been using the WoT cycle path to get to the Pentlands for the last 8 years - I've had loads of near misses with dogs off the lead during this time but thankfully no collisions.
It is really frustrating though - it's a national cycle route (NCN 75) that's been heavily funded by Sustrans but many dog owners treat it like a dedicated dog park. I do think that it would be really helpful if there were more signs up reminding users of shared spaces of their responsibilities - dogs should be under control at all times, either on a short lead or at heel if off lead.
Sorry to hear of the stress this incident has caused you MB.
If they have pet insurance then they should have 3rd party liability cover. It’s absolutely NOT in their interests to go down that route
Why wouldn't they want to use their pet insurance liability cover? You'd use it for a vet bill. Helmet and GPS could be £300-500 so it's not a petty amount.
I do think that it would be really helpful if there were more signs up reminding users of shared spaces of their responsibilities – dogs should be under control at all times, either on a short lead or at heel if off lead.
At the leith end there are.
Hiya - holy thread resurrection. What was the outcome of the claim? Just being nosy.
Well, after eighteen months I eventually got the payout last month. The dog owner was a pain the whole way. They-
- refused to admit any liability
- refused to give their pet insurance details
- refused to give their address (so court papers couldn't be sent to them, which would mean no claim).
I managed to find their address on Companies House fortunately. Because they wouldn't give their pet insurance details my solicitor had to instruct a private investigator to see if they had enough money to pay - this bumped up their claim enormously. Once the Investigator found they had enough money the ball was set rolling to take them to court.
When they got the court papers they finally told their pet insurance who took over. They tried to say I'd been going too fast in a public park but the GPS data proved them wrong so there was no liability at all on my part.
After initially rejecting a low ball offer, the payout for giving someone a concussion, post concussion syndrome, depression, making them unable to work full time for over half a year, making them unable to socialise properly for a year, giving them a real and deep-seated fear every time they rode their bike and destroying their confidence was £6750. Every time I see a dog I am filled with either anger or terror. Seemed a bit paltry to me but according to my solicitor that's roughly what I would have got in court (the range was £5-8k). The total cost to the dog owner was nearer £25k with costs (medical experts and private investigators don't come cheap).
But they never accepted liability. I'd have accepted no payout if they'd just said "sorry, I was at fault here, what I did was dangerous and I won't do it again".
Horrible situation but a great result. Hopefully things will settle down for you and you can find some peace.
Sorry I cannot recall in the detail but did you need to make a leap of faith and fund the lawyer and PI etc. yourself or did you get help from your house insurance, I know you did your own thing to some extent.
But they never accepted liability. I'd have accepted no payout if they'd just said "sorry, I was at fault here, what I did was dangerous and I won't do it again".
You're a bigger man than me, we might have our different opinions on "a couple of things"
But what happened to you is shitty. And they sound like straight up nasty uncaring pricks.
Well done for pursuing it. Sounds like a nightmare. Glad you got a result
That is horrid situation - and so utterly avoidable at the time of the harm and the following period. Salt into a head wound.
I did the claim with Cycle Law Scotland, so my own lawyer, who funded the investigator and medical experts on a no-win-no-fee basis, rather than through my insurance.
@joshvegas - I even reckon the disagreements we've had on here stem from the accident. I was so grumpy, angry and full of rage for about twelve months and I know that came out on the forum, making me seem really disagreeable and antagonistic.
I did the claim with Cycle Law Scotland, so my own lawyer, who funded the investigator and medical experts on a no-win-no-fee basis, rather than through my insurance.
@joshvegas - I even reckon the disagreements we've had on here stem from the accident. I was so grumpy, angry and full of rage for about twelve months and I know that came out on the forum, making me seem really disagreeable and antagonistic.
sounds horrific. Hope it continues to improve.
I actually did think i saw your bike outside greggs in peebles the otherday.
Good on you for taking it through to conclusion.
Try to take solace that there are (were) the majority of dog owners like myself where this would never have happened in the first place and if God forbid something did go wrong then the outcome would have been the polar opposite to what happened to you.
I understand your feelings you have towards dogs now and that saddens me. Having recently lost mine I'm looking back on a period of my life were Bert gave me constant happiness yet it's a dog that caused the opposite for you due to shit owners.
Sending digital healing vibes.
the damage is probably not sufficient to go to insurance?
Thats your answer, i would suggest.
It really boils my wee wee, the state of some if not most dog ownership, dont know why people have the things, but sometimes accidents happen, and thats why we have insurance.
surely you contact YOUR insurers, put in a claim for your stuff, and provide them with the details of the dog owner (who hopefully has dog insurance of one form or another) for the insurers to worry about wheter they can be bothered in recovering any costs.
We have an old railway line from Aberdeen to Royal Deeside that's long since been converted into a mixed use path. There are signs everywhere to keep dogs under control/on leads and for cyclists to make themselves heard when overtaking but neither group generally adheres to these instructions. Both are equally as annoying and inconsiderate I find. I try and avoid it if I can, or at least the section within the city limits where all the dog walkers and TdF guys are.
Anyway, in OP's case since they want to go knock for knock I'd probably just leave it.
@citizenlee - they never pursued me for their own damages (which didn't really exist) and as their insurers were happy to settle I'm assuming the insurer doesn't think they have a leg to stand on.
@munrobiker - I am so very sorry (only just read this thread) to read what you've had to go through. These people should not be owning a dog and they sound horrendous.
I hope you can start to get on with your life.
I'm pleased to hear you have an outcome, @munrobiker. While I think it's a bit paltry given what you've been through, at least it's something. I'm sorry that you've had this experience.
@citizenlee - they never pursued me for their own damages (which didn't really exist) and as their insurers were happy to settle I'm assuming the insurer doesn't think they have a leg to stand on.
Somehow I failed to notice a further 3 pages of the thread when replying!
Glad to hear it all got sorted in the end.
