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It's not, but all the folks who're comparing dogs and kids - I've 3rd party insurance for when I'm on my bike and if I knocked over a kid and they were injured enough that parents asked for for my details, then I'm glad I have it. Likewise, if a dog knocked me off and I found that both my GPS and helmet was bust I'd be asking the same of the dog's owners.
The social contract in operation?
and what is a “dog walking area”? Is that an official designation?
An area where people are walking dogs. Genius! 🤣
I don’t take my dog to areas where I know there will be lots of people on bikes, walking or small children.
Same here, when I had a dog. But, I mean, come on - ****ing millions of people DO and we all know that.
Why are you looking to claim something after hitting a dog? 🤣
The dog owner is liable for the damage caused in law. This is very clear.
IIRC in Scotland a dog must be "under control" when in a public place. Case law defines this but again IIRC it basically means owners in eyesight of the dog and the dog comes when called. This is different to dangerously out of control under the Dangerous dogs act.
I wold let them know they will be replacing the helmet and GPS - injuries I probably wouldn't claim for but I might leave it a day or two to see how serious they are.
Worth mentioning to the local council? Asking if there's been any other bike/dog issues and whether they've given consideration to specific, even larger, signage in order to avoid accidents along with a reminder to the public to put their dog on a lead when using a shared path.
As far as I’m aware, it’s not compulsory to have insurance for bicycles or dogs?
Correct - but not having insurance doesn't mean you aren't liable it means you have, knowingly or not, decided to take that liability on yourself.
Asking if there’s been any other bike/dog issues and whether they’ve given consideration to specific, even larger, signage in order to avoid accidents along with a reminder to the public to put their dog on a lead when using a shared path.
there are "share the path" signs everywhere along the route aimed at cyclists and dog walkers
People can seem reasonable until they get hit with 300 quid demands.
My experience is that there are people out there who pay their way when the dog steps out of line. £450 vets bill covered by an owner when there dog attacked mine and we had an emergency vet visit on Boxing Day evening. (Every dog is allowed one error with another in my world before we go full death penalty)
OP Just ask and we'll get the pitchforks out when you are refused and not before.
Worth mentioning to the local council? Asking if there’s been any other bike/dog issues and whether they’ve given consideration to specific, even larger, signage in order to avoid accidents
Signage won't avoid accidents - the people who don't keep dogs under control don't read signs, or don't believe it applies to them - which in reality as the council has no enforcement staff it won't. If the recipient of the letter is a cyclist hating dog lover you may even find new signs telling cyclist to slow down or dismount!
along with a reminder to the public to put their dog on a lead when using a shared path.
I'm not sure a lead solves the problem. Half the issues I've had with dogs on shared paths have been dogs on leads with an idiot on the other end who goes to the opposite side of the path leaving the lead stretched across the path!
IIRC in Scotland a dog must be “under control” when in a public place. Case law defines this but again IIRC it basically means owners in eyesight of the dog and the dog comes when called. This is different to dangerously out of control under the Dangerous dogs act.
If I don't hear back from them, is this an option? Go to the police, let them know what happened? Or, at the least, threaten the owner with it (since the Scottish police is busy and under-resourced without dealing with this sort of stuff).
Thanks tj.
Worth mentioning to the local council? Asking if there’s been any other bike/dog issues and whether they’ve given consideration to specific, even larger, signage in order to avoid accidents
Be careful what you wish for
Bit of light reading that the dog owner's insurers may consider. Strict liability, sort of......
EDIT,
<p style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; margin: 0px 0px 0.5rem; line-height: 1.5rem; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';">ound some references for this)-</p>
<p style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; margin: 0px 0px 0.5rem; line-height: 1.5rem; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';">n the UK, dog owners are held responsible if their pet is run over by a car. The law specifically states that any person who allows a dog to run onto a road off the lead is guilty of an offence. The owner is also responsible for any veterinary costs and, potentially, for the cost of repairs to the vehicle involved.</p>
<p style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; margin: 0px 0px 0.5rem; line-height: 1.5rem; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';">Fortunately, I wasn’t asking about who’s to blame, but how to go about dealing with it.</p>
This isn't being considered under the Road Traffic Act though is it, it wasn't a "highway"
Of course the rebuttal to dogs on leads and signage is the well publicised hierarchy of road users in the highway code if you want to go down that path.
I’m with Del on this. I’d be claiming third party on my pet insurance for your GPS and helmet, and possibly reasonable physio as needed (although it sounds like a minor off).
I bet you've never had a claim on pet insurance?
We did this year, £30odd a month up to £60odd on renewal.
You don't claim unless you really have to.
<span style="color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; background-color: #eeeeee;">wow thats a surprising amount of damage / injury from a slow falling off. personally I’d just chalk it up to bad luck and move on. but thats just me.</span>
I'd be going with this. But purely because I couldn't be arsed dealing with the potential hassle of trying to claim of someone. Bit ultimately it's up to the OP to decide what to do.
munrobiker - it would be small claims court. Its not a criminal matter. Its civil liability. No point going to the police
well publicised hierarchy of road users
Not sure if that is what is being alluded to here but crikey I hate how people have started to assert that dogs have 'human' rights.
If a child had run out the bushes and you had hit them you would be doing same claiming the parents had failed to exercise reasonable control over their child?
The Dangerous Dogs Act makes it an offence to have a dog out of control in a public place - assuming this applies north of the border, the dog owner has committed an offence, and would be liable in a civil court for damages.
I reckon by asking for replacement kit you are opening yourself up for a counter claim for the vet bill. If the owners were as far away as you say they would have no idea what speed you were doing. irrespective of whether you can 'prove it' or not
Cant you just get a replacement screen for the gps? I presume its not completely buggered.
btw I get pretty angry when I have 'trail' dogs popping out of the undergrowth at swinley and the FOD as sooner or later I'm going to kill one and get seriously hurt - but thats on a proper designated track and the owners should know better. On a shared use path its probably quite a common thing for dogs to be loose, at least it is where I am, hence I stick to the roads where I can
Let us know what the owners say. Lets hope they are good for their word
The Dangerous Dogs Act makes it an offence to have a dog out of control in a public place
No it doesn’t.
It makes it an offence to have a dog dangerously out of control, that’s not the same as out of control.
The dog is to “.., be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person[F2 or assistance dog ], whether or not it actually does so, but references to a dog injuring a person[F3 or assistance dog ] or there being grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will do so…”.
There’s nothing in the OP to suggest any criminal offence - and I’m with him in getting the owner to pay for the damage.
I don't see how the counterclaim would work - I have a speed log for the ride, which is linked to a map which shows where I hit the dog. I wasn't negligent. The dog wasn't under control in a public place. I was, in essence, going along, minding my own business when a dog appeared in front of me. Similar laws state that if you hit a dog with a vehicle, the dog owner is liable.
GPS is fully dead unfortunately - it won't even turn on now, though it was on at the time of the accident and had full battery. The tabs on the mount have been ripped off too.
@tjagain - my hope would be that, if they don't initially respond and I can't get an address out of them, telling them "if you don't come back to me, I'll report you to the police for breaching the Control of Dogs (Scotland) Act" might get them in gear. I'm not familiar with it - you reckon that law is civil only?
Chalk it up to "shiv happens", or maybe a repair on the Garmin (£85 squid - they come back as new) then leave it. i'd probably view it as wha if it was a dear/fox/badger/dinosaur and think about the number of times ive ridden into trees and the damage ive done .
Limits of my knowledge munrobiker
On a shared use path its probably quite a common thing for dogs to be loose
Yep it is on the one I use frequently, and most of time it's fine. It doesn't though, abdicate dog owners from their responsibility. If you're happy to decide to let the dog off the lead, then you're still responsible for how the dog behaves afterwards, it's no one else's. I take my responsibility as the fastest moving vehicle seriously, I pay attention to what's going on around me and I give way in most situations, but if the dog decides at the last minute to dive under my front wheel or dash out from the undergrowth...I'm not going to put myself in harms way to avoid it, and the dog will probs. get hurt. The responsibility for that is wholly the owners.
Out of interest I wonder what folk's responses would be if it had been a kid on the bike and the injury was life threatening?
And this is why there are solicitors and loss adjusters.
UK-FLATLANDERFull Member
Out of interest I wonder what folk’s responses would be if it had been a kid on the bike and the injury was life threatening?
I think if a kid darts out in front of you from the bushes with no time to react, the outcome is still the same - the cyclist is not at fault.
The nuance in that example is that you hit the second kid after the ‘warning’ of the first.
it’s probably one to chalk up to experience, for all parties.
eta: wait for them to find out a helmet isn’t a tenner and a computer not fifteen quid!
Got an email back which says they found a scar (it looks like the brake rotor or tyre has taken off a small amount of fur) and ends thus-
"But anyway if you want to settle, please give me a quote with the cost breakdown and I will provide the quote from the vet which will include potential X-ray and further treatments as she recovers."
Seems they want to go knock for knock. Any tips?
Seems they want to go knock for knock. Any tips?
Utterly predictable. I'd just walk away - not worth the stress obvs YMMV
Oh, and they say this-
"Judging from how you fell, and the wound on my dog, I anticipated your speed in a public park was quite fast."
which basically confirms they were so far away they couldn't even see it.
which basically confirms they were so far away they couldn’t even see it.
Neither did anyone else?
Your word against the dogs I suppose.
be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person
When I see dogs running around out of control near a cyclepath. I have a reasonable apprehension that someone may be injured.
Your word against the dogs I suppose.
with evidence from a busted Garmin 🧐
.
I suspect it won’t help but see Highway Code rule 56.
Maybe contact local council, mention rule 56 and get a statement re the path concerned, as apparently there can be local bye laws.
“But anyway if you want to settle, please give me a quote with the cost breakdown and I will provide the quote from the vet which will include potential X-ray and further treatments as she recovers.”
****ing ****s
I'd just give up if they're not willing to go through their pet insurance for the xrays etc, vet bills get expensive fast. Not worth it for a broken Garmin and a scraped knee.
New helmet + GPS. No insurance contact. Price it up and give them what it'd cost you (with links) and say either they put it direct to your bank account or you can bob round and pick up the cash if it's local. Faster payments take a couple of hours.
Would do that asap, and if they're not forthcoming then tell them you'll be going to popo/insurance and they can sort it out from there in a more expensive fasion.
If they stump up, that's the end of it.
– I have a speed log for the ride, which is linked to a map which shows where I hit the dog.
Instantaneous speeds on a GPS are pretty unreliable at the best of times let alone in tree covered areas like the WoL path where the speed typically under-reads. Maybe you might get away with it in a small claims court but the reality is the speed log proves very little.
I really think you’d struggle to demonstrate the dog owners were at fault in this one once they counter-claim that you weren’t riding carefully enough.
According the the above definition the first dog was behaving dangerously too (although didn't cause an accident in itself), and forced the OP into the ambush of the 2nd dog. A canine conspiracy...
If they are decent people they will be mortified and see you right.
Realise that it doesn't help you but if they have to fork out for vet bills/see an increase in insurance premium then it's their own stupid fault. Importantly they should learn from it unless they can afford not to.
Is the traditional behavior in these situations not shitting down their chimney? Do they prove they have actually taken the dog to the vet or are they just threatening it?
Disappointing response from the owners. I'd be inclined to pop back and suggest that if their only gauge of how fast you were going was forensic they might find they're on a shoogly peg. Suggest to them if they want to go that route you exchange insurance details but it would be sensible for them to check their position regarding their dog being under control in a public place. They weren't even in a position to recall their dog never mind see what happened. I'd call their bluff.
I let my dog off the lead on shared paths and despite headphones I'm very mindful of other users as I expect them to be of us, but equally I'd take it on the chin as I stated previously if it all went wrong.
Bon chance op