So I bought a 2010 Cove Hummer in Aug 2009 from Chain Reaction Cycles for £1595. I had spoken to Silverfish about geometry, fork length etc and they had told me that the Warranty was 5 years. Within about 6 weeks I noticed a crack at the junction of the head tube and underneath the down tube. Chain Reaction collected it and I also spoke to I think Paul who said they would see what Lynskey said as to whether it would be repaired or replaced. He also at this point confirmed that the warranty period was 5 years on the Hummer and 1 year on the other frames. I stated that as the frame was only 6 or so weeks old I expected to have a new frame. New frame arrived. Sorted.
Been riding that since then and last Saturday I noticed a crack at the junction of the top tube and the seat tube on the drive side. Spoke to Chain Reaction and frame was collected this morning .
Then I get this email from CRC…
Hi J,
Thank you for your reply.
Silverfish responded to my email today to advise that the warranty on your frame is two years so it's no longer within the warranty period. We are sorry about this, the older model that took a 27.2mm seatpost had a 5 year warranty but this has now been reduced to 2 years.
They may be able to repair the frame for a cost. They are going to get a quote for the repair from the manufacturer. As soon as this is available we will contact you to see if your wish to go ahead with the repair.
We hope this is OK.
Kind regards,
CRC
When I bought the frame I was told the warranty was 5 years. When it first cracked it was again confirmed that the warranty was 5 years. Now Silverfish are saying the warranty is only 2 years. Grrrrrrrrr….
More interesting than the usual warranty issues.
So they've reduced the warranty on the new frames, and cascaded that down to you, despite you having bought into the old frame/warranty?
I reckon you're covered myself.
EDIT: Wonder if CRC phrased the question to Silverfish correctly, telling them the whole story?
surely the original warranty stands? That was part of the terms of the orginal sale. The fact they happened to replace the frame with a different one (no matter what terms they were sold with new) should be co-incidental, I believe your original terms should still stand.
[img][url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7058/6833100714_00fa059aaf.jp g" target="_blank">
ritcheysilverfish to the thread, ritcheysilverfish to the thread.
if you have it in writing that there's a 5 year warranty and it was clear that which model year was under discussion then I'd expect to have that honoured. This may not be how the law actually works though...
A Ti frame with only a two year warranty? that's incredibly poor. I would be sending an email to Cove/Lynski too expressing your dissappointment.
"all" ti frames go there, hey ?
Seen the exact same thing on a newish hummer in my lbs a few weeks ago, hairline crack between the top tube and seat tube, they should be called cracksky.....
Is it the one with a sleeve in the seat tube?
Mine is one of the newer Lynskey frames and I was told when I bought it that it had a 5 year warranty...
Cove Bikes International
Warranty Outlines and Procedures
At Cove Bikes, we design and build some of the toughest frames in the industry. Each of our models is
purpose-built and tested to perform at the highest level in its respective category. Our warranty policy
outlines the specifics of each model and serves as a reference to ensure accuracy and fairness in all
warranty and non-warranty situations.
[b]Cove frames are covered by a 1 year limited warranty against manufacturer’s defects from the date of
purchase to the original owner with the exception of the Hummer which carries a 5 year warranty[/b]. Due to
International Law countries in the EU are entitled to a 2 year frame warranty. We require an original
purchase receipt from an authorized Cove dealer. Cove Bikes will inspect all warranty claims and has the
right to grant or refuse warranty at its own discretion.
When the warranty claim does not fall within the full replacement parameters, our frames carry a lifetime
crash replacement policy. Cove Bikes will make available replacement frames and frame parts at a
sympathy pricing level. This also applies only to the original owner providing the appropriate
documentation is present.
Customers feeling that they have a valid warranty claim should contact their local Cove Authorized Dealer
or Distributor in their country. The dealer will then contact Cove Bikes to obtain a Return Authorization
Number (RA#). It should be noted that the customer is responsible for any shipping or labour costs that
may occur during the processing and fulfillment of the warranty claim.
Warranty Specifics:
*All parts supplied with Cove Build Kits are covered by their respective manufacturer’s warranties.
*Fork travel guidelines and specific component requirements must be strictly adhered to. These can be
found on the Cove Bikes Geometry and Spec Sheet.
*Minimum seat post insertion must be at least 5 inches into the seat tube. Additionally the seat post must
completely fill the seat tube in the Shocker, Playmate and Peeler frames.
*Shockers must not be built up with single crown forks.
Should we not be able to see the complete bike in person a full picture of the bike as well as the affected
area are required. We will also require the affected product to be returned to us.
Any specific questions in regards to warranty or the appropriate use or proper build of a Cove Bike should
be directed to AT@Covebike.com.
Jay, the next unhighlighted bit says only 2 years in EU countries? Hope you have the 5 years mentioned in an email and saved?! Good luck, glad I sold my litespeed now I am amazed how many failures lynskey built frames seem to have given how much experience they have.
As I understand things .......
It is usual that if an item is replaced under warranty then the original warranty period applies to the new item.
E.G. If a product with a two year warranty is replaced at the end of year one then the replacement product carries the remaining year of warranty that the original product would have come with.
I would have thought this applied your your situation.
If you were not informed of the change from 5 years down to 2 with the replacement frame I would have thought this would be suitable justification to argue (in a nice way) point.
May be worth speaking with SF direct.
From my understanding the 2 years thing applies to those frames that ordinarily have a 1 year warranty.
Seems to me you get the warranty as part of your original purchase, so it should stand at 5 years.
Revert on that basis then small claims...
From my understanding the 2 years thing applies to those frames that ordinarily have a 1 year warranty.
That's how it was intended, if Silverfish are trying to twist it to suit themselves then that would be A) Very surprising & B) Very poor form.
Have you spoken to Silverfish this time round?
Just had a IM chat with Don Erwin the Sales Manager at Lynskey. He said they will repair the frame under warranty and that it is warrantied until 2014.
Relief!
🙂
I have a Yeti and their warrenty is as useless as yours it would seem....
Keep pushing them asking to speak to them direct and record everything ins writing/email.
Result!
Hi Guys
As I'm sure a lot of you are aware, I work in sales within Silverfish and whilst I obvoiusly have a chat with the Guys in warranty, it isn't my department, isn't my area of expertise and isn't something that I will be able to give out any definitive answers on I'm afraid.
What I would say initially though is directed at Lord Jingles - For your own sake, before you take this public thread too far do you want to drop me a mail directly.
Our warranty Manager is a Cove Hummer owner himself and a keen mountain biker.
He ALWAYS treats each and every case as fairly as he possibily can and endeavours to get each warranty resolved in a manner that keeps everyone happy.
However what you have to understand is that he has to abide by the rules set in place by the brands we deal with, afterall, do you think he wants the stress of a public slagging on STW for turning a warranty down?
Its far easier for him to push for it to be covered, replace the product and keep everyone happy. However, in some instances this simply isn't possible, correct or right.
Which leads me back to Lord Jingles - rest assured, we are doing what we can for you but drop me a mail directly as soon as you can.
Cheers All.
richie @ silverfish-uk.com
Lord Jingles - Good to hear that you've spoken with Don. Please DO still mail me though.
Cheers
Richie
Oh dear...
Ritchie, it appears he has the issue resolved.
What I would say initially though is directed at Lord Jingles - For your own sake, before you take this public thread too far do you want to drop me a mail directly.
Is that some sort of thinly veiled threat/warning? Not very nice regardless.
Ah, Martyn, interesting to see you online.
Ah Al. I have head like a sieve. Done! Apologies again!
ooooh another 'bike for life' lasting less time than a plastic scooter from argos.
Don't get why people keep buying ti bikes, judging by STW about 50% of them crack at some point. I'm sure they ride nicely but maybe the reynolds 953 or other such nicheness might be a better bet (they might crack too I guess!)
Glad it got sorted tho
What I would say initially though is directed at Lord Jingles - For your own sake, before you take this public thread too far do you want to drop me a mail directly.
😐 He mailed silverfish and posted the reply telling him to do one. Why would he have emailed you at sales for a warranty case?
However what you have to understand is that he has to abide by the rules set in place by the brands we deal with, afterall, do you think he wants the stress of a public slagging on STW for turning a warranty down?
Absurd. As stated, he had already been unjustly turned down by Silverfish. Silverfish [i]deserved[/i] a slagging, and if he hadn't mailed Lynskey would be out of pocket thanks to Silverfish. The moral is; don't behave in a manner which you wouldn't want made public get your facts right and maybe try look for ways to help cusomers rather than maintain profit margins sometimes.
Is that some sort of thinly veiled threat/warning? Not very nice regardless.Huh??
No, its the opposite actually. I didnt realise it read in that way? I wanted Lord Jingles to email so I could assist in a way I wasn't prepared to go into on the forum.
If you look at my history on here making threats isnt my style. I pop up every now and then to help where I can can with regards to our products.
I like to think I've done a fairly decent job of it in the past and helped a lot of folk out.
I didn't say it was, but as you just said, it did read like that.
Anyway, it is a shame that someone has to start airing their grievances on a public forum before someone helps. I am not saying that this is your fault btw. It seems to happen fairly regularly. Ive seen it happen with all different companies, not just those which are bike related.
bobbyg81 - have you read the thread? And particularly the OP?!
Some people definitely start posting threads about warranties too early but clearly the OP in this case had been told, in no uncertain terms his frame wouldn't be warrantied. Under those circumstances then too right he deserves to slag off the distributor and manufacturer, I certainly would have. I'd have just apologised for the mistake on here rather than post some BS expecting him to jump through hoops...
I just realised how my post read. Not what you think I meant at all! I meant it's a shame that the OP wasnt helped when he asked CRC or Lynskey. They should have dealt with it so that the OP wouldnt have needed to start the thread. He was well within his rights to be pissed off and air his experience here.
It seems some companies need a public outing/slagging before they do what they should have done in the first place!
Another two broken Lynskeys then?
Quell surprise!
richiethesilverfish - MemberI like to think I've done a fairly decent job of it in the past and helped a lot of folk out.
Seem to from what I have seen - remained professional and been helpful when you can. One eye on good public relations I am sure
my old merlin ti frame cracked in the same place - not unusual either...
ti doesnt last as long as the hype suggests
paul
If Silverfish think there's only a 2 year warranty running from the original purchase date, they ought to get their warranty wording rewritten pronto.
I'll happily big up Silverfish for warranty claims on Hummers. My 2007 Hummer had the aluminium headtube insert came out attached to my King headset so I sent it back to Silverfish. They told me that the frame had a crack at the gusset on the downtube which I didn't know was there. They then contacted ABG (Litespeed) whose response was that as it was built by them and that the time I had owned the frame exceeded their warranty but not that offered by Cove, they took the attitude that it was for Cove to resolve who had subsequently moved production to Lynskey.
After much to-ing and froing and a lot of effort on the part of the guys at Silverfish, they managed to get me a brand new 2011 Cove Hummer frame as opposed to the Litespeed "we can weld it for you" approach to warranty.
Upshot of the story: Silverfish Good, Litespeed not so good to the extent that I won't be buying a Litespeed made product ever again. I'm still puzzled why anyone would put an aluminium insert into a Ti head tube? There may be a good engineering reason for it. Who knows eh?
However, I'm more than happy to deal with Silverfish and have only good things to say about their customer service. 😀
Cheers
Sanny
It seems to me that people by Ti for its light weight. In reality its light because its thin tubing. That can crack quite easily.
Perhaps we are after light weight at the expense of long life. Also a lot of those cracks happen where the seat tube joins, the seat tubes on modern bikes sticks out quite far, presenting a massive leverage.
On more burly frames that part is often reinforced.
I'm still puzzled why anyone would put an aluminium insert into a Ti head tube?
It's a cheap way of using I larger tube and sizing it down to the headset.
I'll also happily big up Silverfish and Richie in particular. I bought a Sultan in the CRC sale before xmas for silly cheap money. CRC sent me an XL by mistake (ordered a large). I rang them and they shrugged their shoulders having sold all the Larges and being out of stock. I spoke to Richie who initially said sorry, no 2010 larges left and after a bit of discussion sent me a 2011 front end (better frame) as a replacement. Richie or Silverfish were under no obligation at all to do this. Just posting for balance like 😀
Is that some sort of thinly veiled threat/warning? Not very nice regardless.
Didn't read like that to me at all, rather "lets discuss this directly and not via CRC and see what can be done" 😀
EDIT: OP hope you get it sorted. I have two Ti frames from different companies, both with a lifetime guarantee, but both discontinued and I shudder to think of the pain it will be when they break - they do ride nice though!
Well it seems like Ritchie needs to give everyone else in silverfish some training in customer service.
Andys^ experience is rather good.
Here's a question for you Ritchie. Why are he 2012 turner 5 spots more expensive than the 2011s were here, when they're the same price in the US?
I won't hold my breath for a answer to that one.
Why are he 2012 turner 5 spots more expensive than the 2011s were here, when they're the same price in the US?
I won't hold my breath for a answer to that one.
We had that cold snap. Silverfish have gas bills to pay too you know. 😉
Wrecker
He mailed silverfish and posted the reply telling him to do one.
Sounds to me that reply came from CRC - I'd be interested to know how they contacted Silverfish and what effort they put into it. As said in my case CRC were less than useless 🙄
Another two broken Lynskeys then?Quell surprise!
Two and a half, my mates Ti Lynskey singlespeed 29er has a rear end that was out of whack, longer stay on one side. That has to be the worst built bike I've ever seen, makes an Apollo look like the creme de la creme of the bike world.
Now sorted with a replacement frame, though he did have to fork out on a new seatpost as the size had changed
How many of the Litspeed made Hummers have gone???.I know people with them that are ages old.I have a 8 year old Litespeed which is sound.Whats the problem with the Lynskey?
Don't get why people keep buying ti bikes, judging by STW about 50% of them crack at some point. I'm sure they ride nicely but maybe the reynolds 953 or other such nicheness might be a better bet (they might crack too I guess!)
nah they will just complain when it looks like its rusting (which it er can do LOL)
Why are he 2012 turner 5 spots more expensive than the 2011s were here, when they're the same price in the US?
I won't hold my breath for a answer to that one.
A wee read of the spec on the Turner site might give you a clue.
A wee read of the spec on the Turner site might give you a clue.
Did you read the post?
err yes, why? Did I miss something?
*hijack* - bit's arrive Vince?
Thanks Mark, first thing this morning.
Wrecker - I'm sat eating my dinner after a VERY long day so I'm keeping this quick.
2012 Turners in the UK are specced with Kashima shocks as standard. In the US you have to pay an upgrade for this. As such, they are not more expensive in the UK, they are different.
Hope that clears things up?
Richie
P.s - Hi Andy. Hope that Sultans treating you well!
Dear Silverfish, Hotlines and On One,
In the interests of honesty and openness with your public and customers....
HOW MANY LYNSKEY BUILT FRAMES HAVE CRACKED?
and
WHAT PERCENTAGE IS THAT OF FRAMES SOLD AND USED?
Cos I think there have been a lot................
Love and kisses
Bill
PS. I also thought that did sound a bit like an attempt to stop free debate...if you shut up we will help you out...type thing
Lord Jingles
I'd be angry too. I hope they now start treating you decently.
Seriously ^ you think they're about to stick info online for all to see? Not even Evil made that kind of info public, and their fallout rate (for the Revolt) was around 99% 😉
EDIT
2011 5 spot w/rp23; $2550
2012 5 spot w/rp23 $2550
The 2012 5-Spot frame starts at $2399 with the Fox RPL rear shock. The RP23 Kashima is available for an extra $150
So, why have we had an uplift?
Hello.............Ritchie..........hello?
Again, much like the warranty stuff, they're under no obligation to say why their prices have changed. Don't like it? Don't buy it
i dont know if wreckers heard but we spend pounds in blighty. in americky they spend yankee dollars some nasty people bet that ones better than the other so the value of each changes. and to add insult to injury that nasty mr brown foolishy whipped 2.5% off vat before he stuck his head in the sand and now that very nice man mr clegg ( whose married to a spanish piece) has added 5% to that to keep the the wolf from the door.
of course you could say that silverfish are overpaying staff if they have new hummers but i bet thats not the case..
give richie a chance he comes on in his own time to sort sommat out and gets it in the neck.. i dont know why he bovvers..
Don't like it? Don't buy it
No need worry about that matey. If I do want one, I'll pick it up from the US thanks.
Don't get why people keep buying [b]CHEAP[/b] ti bikes
There fixed that for you!
One of my mates found himself in the same situation - from memory I think his frame was a Hustler.
They agreed to warranty the first cracked frame, but refused to warranty the second one (even though it was within warranty).
It certainly means I won't be buying a Cove ever.
Also recently had similar happen to me on my Mongoose - had one frame on warranty (cracked), then CSG refused to do me a second one even though it was within the warranty period.
Hence I'll not be buying another Mongoose (or a GT or Charge - all brands managed by CSG) ever again.
There's nothing wrong with either of my [b]CHEAP[/b] Ti bikes.TheDoctor - Member
> Don't get why people keep buying CHEAP ti bikes
There fixed that for you!
Still, at least I didn't fall for that "US Ti is best" crap.
i still ride my 2003 hummer 🙂 sandvik for the win 😀
Bored bored bored of silverfish bashing. If you have a problem speak to them rather than moaning to the stw forum. Silverfish only get bashed because they actually respond and do something. All the crc and other distrubuters, do you ever get them replying on the forum? No, please move along and go and fix some servers or something
do you ever get them replying on the forum?
Yes.
[i]They agreed to warranty the first cracked frame, but refused to warranty the second one (even though it was within warranty).[/i]
This is not unusual, for example; if you get a warranty replacement Sky receiver they are only covered for 3 months, and not an additional 12 months.
I damaged the drive-side drop-out on my 456Ti and it was repaired (new drive side rear triangle) by Lynskeys - no problem, and tbh I wouldn't have had a problem of repair if it'd been a warranty job either. You don't get a new car when you've warranty work, just the problem fixing.
And as for the number of Ti frame breakages, maybe its because we use our bikes more than average ❓ - and more probably, unlike cheap frames, which are probably just dumped, we want them repairing/replacing.
it sounds to me like ti is the problem not silverfish - all you niche whores go out and buy a proper bike 🙂
anyways my dealings with silverfish and particualrly richie have been nothing short of superb, only over trivial things like lubes etc and the odd formula brake question - but ive always had truly positive experiences from him, i think hes a top bloke and will go head over heels to help you out - hence i dont think his comment was threatening in the slightest....
glad your sorted, but ultimately if thats what silverfish were told the warranty was they were only passing on the info....im sure they would have sorted you and yes maybe ranting about it on here has helped too, but as long as your sorted its all good right? dont get why the usual suspescts have to butt in with absolutly no experience of silverfish degrading the name without knowing the full facts....
anyways richie at silverfish is a genuinely nice chap so dont take it out on him 🙂
Hi Guys
Thanks to all of those who have defended Silverfish and myself personally.
As I've said on here before, we're not monsters trying to screw every penny out of the MTB community of Britain, we're just a bunch of riders working in the industry and passionate about bikes. I, genuinely, work hard to try and keep like minded riders happy and out on the trails so its great to hear that every now and then my efforts are appreciated so thanks again.
Wrecker - First up, apologies for not being back on the forum to answer your questions as quickly as you might've liked. Just to let you know I have a (more than) full time job, a wife, a ten week old son and occasionally I like to actually get out and ride my bike so my time on the forum is, with all due respect, not a priority.
However, as I'm here - I'm not totally sure what you mean with your question of an uplift?
Last year the Turner 5 Spot was £2095 in an Ano finish. This year its £2199 in an Ano finish but including a Kashima shock and a 142mm bolt thru rear axle.
Its also a fairly substantially re-worked frame, i.e - its a 2012 version.
I'm sorry to hear that if you choose to purchase one it will be from the states rather than by supporting your local bike store but that is, of course, your choice and I'll have to live with it.
Cheers Guys
Richie
Hi Ritchie,
Thanks for your answer, it's nice for representatives of the companies we support to come on and none of my comments are directed at you personally or any other individual.
I am disappointed that turners have risen in price in the UK and remained the same in the US (for the same spec) regardless of improvements. I dont know why you would be surprised that this would annoy us.
Whether that's down to you or if turner raised his prices into the UK, I don't know.
Anyone, thanks for humouring me, I suppose as legend says I can vote with my wallet. A Pivot Mach 5.7 carbon is only £2099.
Hi,
My 2010 Hummer was bought from CRC, early 2010. I noticed a crack where the seat tube join the top tube in November 2011. Still in the, as I understood it, 2 year warranty on workmanship and material and a replacement frame or worse case a new frame for half price, because I build the bike and not some authorised dealer. So great, part of the reason why I was willing to fork out the money for the frame was the warranty and the Cove/Lynskey reputation.
Trying to figure out why the frame broke, I stick my finger down the seat tube and realise that the shim that was inserted in the seat tube by Lynskey, during manufacture, to take the seat tube down to a 30.0 diameter does not go down the seat tube much deeper than the top third of the top tube weld. The result is a torque induced on the seat tube and top tube similar to what would happen when you exceed the minimum insert depth of your seat post. A design issue, unless the shim was sized incorrectly during manufacture.
I am in South Africa, so I arrange with CRC to send the frame to them. While speaking to CRC warranty team I get the ”send back to Lynskey for repair”, but thought this is the CRC disclaimer, should Lynskey decide to not replace for whatever reason. CRC indicates that it can take up to 6 weeks to complete the process to Lynskey and back. While packing the frame for shipment I also notice a crack on the chain stain close to the detailer hanger.
Frame sent, 6 weeks pass, nothing. I phone CRC and I get told that it is on its way back expect to wait another 2 weeks. Another 4 weeks pass and nothing. I phone CRC, they indicate that they will follow up with Silverfish. I get an apology for the delay and promise of a voucher from CRC, which I still have not received, but no indication of when my frame will be back.
I finally get a call from the courier to pay duties for the frame, about 170 GBP, and get a frame back in May 2012, 5 months after shipping. Very excited to see how they fixed it I open the box. They even replaced the Decals, because they are now green and not black, but hey I had frame protection patches on my frame, there is cable scuff marks on the frame. It is not my frame, but it looks like the same issue was fixed on this frame.
I decide to sell the thing as a rolling chase and start to assemble it, my 30.0 seat post no longer fits, it is now a 27.2 and the shim runs way deeper.
I think Cove and Lynskey needs to explain and fix this. It is not a Silverfish or CRC problem, they do not design or manufacture the frame. I think Cove/Lynskey will take a huge knock if the owe up and that is way this thread exsist.