The hunt for a second hand HT continues.
Need something with a bit of compliance as I have a few back/neck issues.
The Ragley Blue Pig looks interesting with is curved seat stays but does that equate to a good bit of compliance?
Any info, thoughts welcome.
As ever, tyre choice, seaport and saddle all have a far, far greater effect on comfort.
Yes my lovely steel frame has some 'spriong' going on, but it's not when seated in the saddle.
I have in my time, owned an aluminium Kona Stuff, which was replaced with the PlanetX Armadillo, both of which cause a bit too much rattling of the fillings. I replaced those with a Dialled PA and the rattling was(to me) noticeably less. Not full suspension plush, but certainly more comfortable than the previous two
[i]"Throw in a hefty dose of vibration-damping comfort from the mahoosive WTB tyres and a tickle of steel spring from those slender tube pro?les"[/i]
Can't comment on the blue pig directly, but i have the big wig 29er version - i really couldn't say how much of the back end compliance is from the 2.3" tyre i have in there or the frame itself, but it's a lot more comfortable than the inbred it replaced and i don't miss having a full suss.
The two most comfy HT frames I've owned have been Alu and steel, one was a 456-evo (steel) and the other was a Kona Caldera (Alu)...the common theme?....both had 27.2mm seat tubes with lots of seat post showing.
Obviously older steel frames that had lovely narrow 1&1/8 head tubes helped, as did pencil thin stays but for me the most important factor was the narrow seat tube....good luck finding one, everyone wants 30.9mm or 31.6mm seat tubes so they can run a dropper post.
Well I've had both a mk2 pig and a mk3 soul and with the same rear wheel and tyre I would say that the pig was definitely the most compliant.
matt_outandabout - Member
As ever, tyre choice, seaport and saddle all have a far, far greater effect on comfort.
Yes my lovely steel frame has some 'spriong' going on, but it's not when seated in the saddle.
This. As I've said before, I love my BFe but the one thing it ain't is compliant in any direction. Had an Identiti Mr Hyde before that with a mahoosive box section aluminium back end. Thought I'd switch to steel for a bit more spring - if anything though though, the BFe is even stiffer.
As big a rear tyre as you can fit in and a saddle that fits your bits properly and you'll be fine.
I had a blue pig X for a few years and found it very comfy. I don't really know if it was tyres, saddle or frame or even all of them. I cannot recommend one enough!
Compliance comes mostly from top tube section rather than triangulated seatstays.
I've not riden a Mk2 Pig, but I've owned/own a Mk1 Pig, an Mmmbop and a Ragley Ti. Everything else being equal - tyres, fork, pressures - both the Blue Pig and the Ti ride appreciably softer than the Bop, then again the latter's notoriously harsh and made of repurposed sewer pipes salvaged from a nuclear missile silo or something.
The BeFe has a reputation for being a solid ride as well. If you really do have proper back/neck issues, it might be worth looking at a short-travel full suspension alternative. Something like an old Blur 4X has a similar sort of vibe to the Pig or the BeFe but with a bunch more comfort out back.
Don't buy a cross bike and ride it fast down cobbles and rocky stuff though, ouch...
IMO the frame feel can make a big difference to riding- the difference between a BFe and Soul is massive, or between my old Mmmbop and my Ragley Ti, but does it really help for comfort? Not for me. Control/riding, yes.
my Mk3 Soul is quite comfy, but the old RL853 it replaced was moreso. When my back is sore I ride my Anthem...
I have a 2012 BFe and had read some comments about "harshness" from earlier models but I've not found it that way. As per posts above tyres and seat stay make a difference too as of course does the terrain you are riding on. I would image a Soul would be a bit more compliant, I was looking for a fun Hardtail and would probably have bought the Soul but the BFe was on sale (£300 vs £500 roughly). It's the bike I ride most of the time with my FS being targeted at "Alps" type trips. I looked at Ragleys at the time as my LBS stocked them but issues with the company at the time time put me off. The Blue Pig certainly looks more sturdy than a BFe which might be more similar to a Piglet ?
I would try and get a demo / ride on one. An xc style FS will be easier on your back than a HT IMO
Had a Soul, BFe and Blue Pig X. The Pig is the most 'compliant', followed by the Soul, with the BFe a long, long way down the scale.
Instantly noticed the difference between BFe and Pig (running same forks, wheels/tyres, bars etc) especially on fast, sustained rocky descents where the rear end seemed to be able to take a few clumsy landings and hits off rocks without getting knocked violently off-line. The BFe is a great bike, but not for the faint-hearted IMO, and probably something for a much more skilful rider to get the best out of.
My Blue Pig was more "compliant" than the following:
Dialled Prince Albert, Chromag Rootdown, Dialled Love/Hate, Surly Karate Monkey.
But tyre choice and seatpost diameter/type makes more of a difference to be honest.
If you fancy a 26er 'ardcore 'ardtail it's a good (cheap) choice.
Need something with a bit of compliance as I have a few back/neck issues.
Is a bit of vibration damping in the frame really going to make much difference? Position you need to maintain to ride a HT over tricky terrain needs quite a lot of core strength and can be tough on the back and neck if you have problems there. (The same is really true of any mtb but you can be lazy on a big bouncy bike and stay in the saddle more.)
Physio and core work?
Physio and core work?
To be honest despite my longish post above @mrblobby has the important issue. The biggest variable is the rider with the most opportunity for "upgrade"
IMO the frame feel can make a big difference to riding- the difference between a BFe and Soul is massive, or between my old Mmmbop and my Ragley Ti, but does it really help for comfort? Not for me. Control/riding, yes.
A can't get my head round that at all - how can a tiny bit of extra spring in a frame make it handle better?
The stiffer frames skittered and bumped off things, softer frames hold the ground better and grip better, and get kicked around less. The geo of those 2 pairs of frames I mentioned is absolutely identical and I built them with much the same parts but the ride was very different, on fat rough trails the mmmbop especially could be a handful.
It's not quite the same, but it's fairly similiar to fitting wider tyres, ime.
on fat rough trails the mmmbop especially could be a handful.
You are not wrong! But that's partly it's so much fun to ride 🙂
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I'd love to try a Ragley Ti though.
A can't get my head round that at all - how can a tiny bit of extra spring in a frame make it handle better?
He didn't say 'handle better' he said '[i]control/riding, yes[/i]'. It's kind of fine margins, but if I ride my Ragley Ti and my Mmmbop back to back - identical geometry, same tyres, similar fork, not dissimilar weight etc - in strict terms, the handling is probably the same in the sense that the geometry is identical, but the ride feel's quite different. Less harshness and chatter with the ti frame, more thudding off stuff with the Bop.
You can lower the tyre pressures on the Bop to compensate a little, but the difference is always there and you notice it most, say, really piling down rocky descents, Peak-type stuff. Smoother feels and probably is more controllable, probably...
So maybe not 'handling' exactly, but ride quality and reduced chatter make the bike feel smoother and faster. I don't know if there's a real difference in speed, I doubt it's huge, but I know the Ti feels nicer, smoother and faster to ride,
As an aside, I prefer the ti frame with a stiffer Thomson post than a flexy ti one. Not sure why, just do, so I guess I'd argue it's about something feeling like it's in a sweet spot between too stiff and too flexy if that makes any sense.
I get what you guys are saying - what I can't get my head around is how a tiny bit more flex in the frame can achieve this. Maybe on a road bike with tiny ultra high volume tyres but not on a mountain bike with low pressure/high volume tyres.
Would the new Trek's with the rubber damping seat tube thing work for you? I saw one a few weeks ago and it looks great.
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You might want to add NS Surge to your list, if it fits you.
Great geometry and although I think it's just 4130 it really seemed to iron out the little bumps better than many HTs I've owned.
what I can't get my head around is how a tiny bit more flex in the frame can achieve this
I am not a scientist, not even an armchair one, but my instinct is that its not flex so much as the materials' inherent damping qualities which are being noticed by riders talking about HT frame comfort.
The last Blue Pig (2014) was a compliant lovely ride, if you can find a straight one, the QC is woeful expect multiple faults with frames!!!
The 26er BFE is not compliant at all, feels as stiff as a stiff aluminium frame, rattles your fillings and pumps your quads to jelly on sustained rocky descents! Is fast in woods on soft stuff and solid enough for hefty jumps (seems to be where it excels), much better quality than a Ragley but not as playful and confidence inducing on the downs as a BP.
Thanks for all the info, will Tess it properly tonight.
Ragley Marley has come up.
Ally frame include and...erm.. Interesting colour scheme.
Anyone owned one?
Really want steel but the price is tempting..
My offering here is Rock Lobster 853 and Blue Pig Mk1. Both great rides (130mm Fox forks on BP and 120mm Rebas on RL).
RL seemed more springy whilst the BP seemed more sure footed/wheeled and gave a smooth ride.
Loved the RL but always too small for my gorilla arms (even in 21" size), therefore BP is the one i'd buy back in a snap.
Good bike.
It's quite clear now that my grasp of bike journalistic-style reviews is awful....I know what I mean even if the rest of the world doesn't!
happy trails
plus size tyres shirley....?
plus size tyres shirley....?
Needs to be built up with all the 26er parts I have I'm afraid.
Hiya,
Have lower back problems from MTB'ing a tad bit too much. I found a remedy though I use, USE vybe or shockposts on my bike and now I'm fine. As a subnote I have three bikes all hardtails two 853's and a titanium. The two 853's are such so different in terms of stiffness the fisrt is a 2002 rock lobster, love it, it really absorbs bumps and trails. The other a cotic 650b super stiff to a point of ally frames...cotic is by far the fastest easiest to ride fast, but the rock lobster is still my favourite.
The titanium hmm is lovely to ride and just soaks up trails...
So in summary best to find a way of obsorbing the trails. The USE posts, OK are not current flavour of the month, but they work so well. I did try to switch back to fixed post with the cotic and my back problems returned...
Br
JeZ