[Closed] Country File NOW -Greenlaning!

All it highlights is just how out-of-date pretty much all our countryside access laws are! I mean, having banned 4x4s from pretty much 99% of the off orad network, people are now surprised that drivers of these vehicles (and mountain bikers too) are taking to "illegal" trails instead........

(not to mention the fact that the vast majority of people seem to think that "muddy" is equivalent to "destroyed" (the so called "chocolate box" countrysiders as i call them (who generally live in the town and like to drive out to perfectly manicured parts of the countryside in their cars, and go for a short walk making sure their inappropriate shoes don't get muddy) For example, take the Ridgeway in Oxfordshire, how muddy do you think that was in say 1650, when it was used to move 150,000 cattle and sheep a year between market towns??)

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Getting the Godwin in early there!

Comparing the plight of this lot;
[img] [/img]

to the Holocaust seems a bit ridiculous.

Thought my brother in law did a good job with Ellie and the Black Grouse.

The Ridgeway used to be really unpleasant until they banned 4x4's from it. Massive ruts put in by people charging around.

I suspect 150,000 animals wouldn't actually do that much damage: compare the horse-power of say, a horse, to that of a 4x4....

And of course in the days of livestock movement by droving (and before the enclosure act) the ridgeway wasn't just the 5m wide track at the bottom of the ridge it is now.

green laning is a anachronism

Thin end of the wedge innit.

Thin end of the wedge innit.

John Craven has just annexed Poland, as it happens.

[i]Thin end of the wedge innit.[/i]

not even close.

I'm in the thin end of the wedge camp here. 4x4s have a right to use (some) green lanes, and are facing pressure to stop in many places due to conflict.

We have a right to ride bridleways, but come under pressure in areas of conflict.....

Where was that trail in the Peak District where that lady was interviewed stood by the gate? Looked interesting

20 years ago the Ridgeway was a hideous, rutted mudbath to be avoided.

[i]20 years ago the Ridgeway was a hideous, rutted mudbath to be avoided.[/i]

For a couple of months a year at worst 😆 and bits of it were kinda fun, although TBF it is much better now they've banned vehicles

We (4x4 and MTB's) are all in the same boat as it were.

Countryside access is a big issue and if we don't all stand together we'll all lose out.

CaptainFlashheart - talk about missing the point 🙄

Countryside access is a big issue and if we don't all stand together we'll all lose out.

I agree in full, and I've not missed the point. I have made the observation that comparing land access with the Holocaust is utterly, utterly ridiculous. Bordering on offensive, in fact.

The local council have spent god knows how much money trying to improve the drainage of the brown lane opposite me because it gets constantly chewed up by plonkers in 4x4s 'living the dream'. There's more technical challenge driving up the pot-holed road to get to it,than can be had driving down it.
If it's the 'thin end of the wedge', then someone lend me a ****-off big hammer to smash it home.

Where was that trail in the Peak District where that lady was interviewed stood by the gate? Looked interesting

It's a pig of a climb in the Vertebrate White Peak mountain biking book, Cheedale and the Wye Valley ride, as a descent, yes it would be very interesting, it's steep and very rocky

First they came for the 4x4 drivers
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a 4x4 driver
Then they came for the off road enduro riders
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a off road enduro rider
Then they came for the horse riders
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a horse rider
Then they came for the mtb riders
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a mtb rider
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

[i]We (4x4 and MTB's) are all in the same boat as it were.[/i]

No, we're not. Don't be lumping us together in an effort to put the fear up, or get cyclist to support the cause of 4x4's.

^^Lame poetic recreation^^

Thanks Iain 1775

"Because I was not a mtb rider"

You're on the wrong web site fella

No, we're not. Don't be lumping us together in an effort to put the fear up, or get cyclist to support the cause of 4x4's.

Where should the line be then? Engines, wheels? You're being very naive.

Where should the line be then?

The Polish border, perhaps?

where should the line be is easy, you said it yourself, engines.

People want peace and quiet, when was the last time you saw a plan for any bit of BW that actively encouraged 4x4s? Councils are falling over themselves to provide cycling provision...Have you noticed how popular it is?

No 4x4 access without land owners permission works well in scotland.

And thats from someone who goes offroad in his offroader.

I would hate to see billy bob and joe attop a hill in their 4x4 having to put in effort to see the scottish country side is a good thing even if that is just paying the land owners a large sum of cash

Councils are falling over themselves to provide cycling provision...Have you noticed how popular it is?

Councils don't provide cycling provision - at best they stick up a few signs and employ an access officer.

I think geoffj is making a valid point, surprised your not getting it Flashy, not like you.

I don't [i]like[/i] noisy 4x4s chewing up the bits of the countryside they are allowed on, but I'm reluctant to support excessive restriction of them because the same arguments can - and have - been levelled against MTB use in places.

And as for councils encouraging general off road cycling provision - not talking about tourist trails, trail centres or multi user resurfacing of bridleways - I'm not seeing any round here.

Our does, CC Swansea and Sustrans have a great job in upgrading the Swansea Valley cycle path - even have a direct link specially built to connect our village, all tarmac and properly signed.

So not actually encouraging MTBing then?

Which I think is the point we are trying to get across.

FFS, I do get the point, I just very strongly disagree with the delivery method!

Comparing it to the Holocaust is utterly stupid.

Using the Holocaust verse was trite, maybe. If he'd posted the second version in the first place, that would have been clever (imo)

And you do seem grumpy today? International demand for paper clips not what it was? 😉

And you are do seem grumpy today?

Yoda? Is that you?

The 4x4s are limited to a very small amount of the rights of way network
And imo the motor bikers us and the 4x4 should make an effort to work together for our access

There will always be tossers who spoil things no matter if they ride a bike or drive but do not apply that to all

Was speaking to a green lane motorcyclist the other day. He put forward an interesting point...where do we stand with electric enduro bikes?

I remember the Ridgeway being rutted such that it was unrideable. And it presented risks of broken legs to walkers and horses, the deep winter ruts having dried and hardened into something close to concrete. So their 'sport' left the route unuseable by others.

Using the holocaust is either offensive, ignorant or both.

Wanting peace and quiet in the countryside is fair enough, but it's not going to happen when it's where our food factories and quarries are located.

However, it's not unreasonable for most recreational countryside users not to have their days ruined by the noise from the relatively small numbers of recreational offroad motorbikes and vehicles. The solution: carry on greenlaning, but electric only from now on.

Edit: cross posting with ollybus.

[i]but I'm reluctant to support excessive restriction of them because the same arguments can - and have - been levelled against MTB use in places.[/i]

I know of at least 4 places where 4x4 have been banned (Oxfordshire, Kent, Wales and Lakes) where the banning was specifically because of the excessive damage that lots of 4x4 did, and in all cases the relevant authorities were quick to point out that it was business as usual for everyone else, walkers horses and bikes. They simply don't see MTBs in the same way as 4x4s, the whole "it's us now, then it'll be you" is propaganda put out by 4x4 groups.

The counrty side is a working place , not just an attraction for those that don't live there

slowoldgit
I remember the Ridgeway being rutted such that it was unrideable.

Me too, and that was last week!

The Ridgeway is a road. It just happens to be an unsurfaced one. I can show you probably 150 km of footpaths that run alongside it and across it, and another 60km of bridleways as well if you would like to walk/ride some where else?

The reason it is less muddy than it used to be is broadly because of all the maintenance that is now done to it year round, including the surfacing with hundreds of tonnes of stone, gravel, and git etc.

Thing is, everyone who uses our unsurfaced rights of way does some sort of "damage" (by this i mean potentially makes these ways erode or get muddy). No one has more or less right than anyone else to use these paths. However, take a look at the amount of access (miles of path) currently available for each user (ie Foothpath, bridleway, byway) and it's quite clear than it is already enormously skewed in favour of the pedestrian. If we ban 4x4s, who is next? Horse riders, Mountain bikers?

To say it's the start of a slippery slope, is, pun intended, absolutely correct....

If we ban 4x4s, who is next? Horse riders, Mountain bikers?

To say it's the start of a slippery slope, is, pun intended, absolutely correct....

Saying it again doesn't make it any more true.

[url= https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope ]Know your logical fallacy[/url]

However, it's not unreasonable for most recreational countryside users not to have their days ruined by the noise from the relatively small numbers of recreational offroad motorbikes and vehicles.

The funny thing is, that these people who's days are "ruined" by hearing an engine are never found in the proper, wild, and still undertrod far flung places.
They are generally found within 5miles of a nice clean National Trust carpark, where they can park their car, and "explore" the chocolatebox/calendar photo countryside in comfort without getting there shoes dirty.........

lemonysam
Saying it again doesn't make it any more true.

So you've never been on your bike and been shouted at / challenged by walkers who want you off "their" paths (even the legal bridleways) because "mountain bikers always go too fast and are dangerous to walkers"?

I guess you don't get out of the Trail Centres much then....... 😉