[Closed] Cotic Soul. The new one vs the old one

Pics please

Of your Soul or Helen Chamberlain

🙂

I'll let you know tomorrow! I had a mk1 for nearly 6 years, till it broke a couple of weeks ago. Mk2 will get it's maiden voyage tomorrow, twice around the red at Kirroughtree. Canny wait.

Pics of both of your new Soul's are now essential.

A pic of Kate from CBeebies "I can cook" will suffice till then.

Cannot wait, mine comes on monday so will let you know

bike and totty piccies (the later with their 'bob's out') will do just fine.

Common thread running here I think

pics of souls and hemlocks + pics of nina (from the neurons) or totty pics off milkshake

It is of course better. As well as hours and hours of slaving over a hot CAD screen annd FEA terminal making it better, I got the factory to pour even more awesome in when they built the new ones.

You know you've got it right when you break a bike and buy another one exactly the same only stronger. I (heart) my Soul. It is 110% ace and when it breaks, as it will as it gets ridden loads and I don't see myself ever changing it, another one will be ordered.

Pic from last weekend:

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Mine is the Custard one in the middle.

Here's mine , built up yesterday

Medium 2010 Soul

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In what way do you find the new frame so much better? Curious myself, I do love mine and I've no desire to replace it with anything else but I might be tempted to replace it with something the same only more so...

Cy wrote "I got the factory to pour even more awesome in"

I'll give you that one for free, from now on that'll cost you £1 per use like the channel 4 jingle

I love my 2009 black Soul but I'd love an orange 2010 one, even with the extra gussets etc. which hopefully I shouldn't need for my 100mm Sids and less mental riding.

I [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-hate-cotic ][i]still[/i][/url] hate Cotic 😀

So just pack up yer the 2010 Soul is even better nonsense and go home...

(yup I'm still hankering after a new orange one!)

LOL@Northwind.

Am loving my new orange one. Haven't taken any pics yet, but will try and do so - if only to irk Metalheart and nowt else!

Only had it a few weeks but, yup, more awesome than the old Soul I had.

I can see that now that the trusty Inbred model is no more, when my beloved singlespeed Inbred frame finally breaks, it's going to be THE LAW [b]that I replace it with a Cotic Simple frame, isn't it? Just thought I'd get that thought in now while there's plenty of time.

dam im ill today. i want to go and ride mine NOW.

bike looks sweet denis! good job 😆

I love my 2009 black Soul but I'd love an orange 2010 one, even with the extra gussets etc. which hopefully I shouldn't need for my 100mm Sids and less mental riding.

Chappers how does the Soul ride with 100mm forks?
Suitable for XC racing?

ackie, XC is all I really use my soul for so I think 100mm forks are great. Nice quick steering and no nasty or unexpected traits. Works great for fast singletrack and technical stuff. I don't feel I need any longer forks for cross-country racing and I'd buy sid race's again. Light and easy to look after. I would post a pic but I'm still trying. I haven't got a flicker account and my hotmail photo try last night didn't work.

Cheers Chris (cycleworlduk), have to say Cycle World gave me excellent service (I bought the frame from them last week).

Just a bit of advice if anyone is thinking of a similar build (2010 frame with Middleburn cranks), the normal 73 x 113mm Shimano square taper b/b isn't long enough. I've got a 118mm fitted and this works fine.

Haven't ridden for six months due to an injury, first ride was yesterday, nothing more than riding along fire road but I was suitably impressed with the Soul.

Still haven't fully recovered from the injury, so this might take sometime till I'm back riding properly.

ackie, with 100mm forks the bike is great for fast singletrack type riding. XC racing? Why not? With some light wheels and forks you'd easily get a Soul down to the 22-23lbs mark. If you want another vote for the suitability of the handling, the Soda has identical geometry and Kate Potter (my tame XC racer) has used a Soda with 100mm forks right up to the World Champs. I think that probably covers it 😉

Oh, and whoever asked "what's better?" about the new Soul, the biggest difference in ride feel is due to the ovalform top tube and stiffer head tube which both make the bike feel more accurate with bigger forks on. There's little difference with shorter forks on, but I've managed to keep the weight pretty much the same as the old one (production medium with bottle boss bolts in was weighed at 4.35lb on my digi scales), so it's still light and zippy. It's also just plain more refined - the dropouts are neater and more slick, the finishing is the best we've ever done, the chainstays are now bent asymmetrically so there's loads of tyre clearance even though there's no nasty crimping. All sorts of little things.

Took mine down to Kirroughtree on sunday for some red action. No huge difference to the mk1 (I'm glad to say), the only difference for me is that it seemed to be nimbler, more direct. Purely subjective though, just my opinion.

One thing I really like is the underslung cables on the top tube. Looks great, and I don't need to think about securing the brake hose in the middle any more.

The gussets up front make it look more robust, the whole frame is lovely. Loving it already.

Anybody looking for a mk1 with a cracked rear chainstay? 😉

sun is out, and all this talk means im out on mine(old one) right now. 😀

sold my mk1 cos the forks caught the down tube, only had it about 8 months this year loved it, uld not find a decent 2nd hand mk2 when i finally decided to sell. bought a scandal instead which i like but i can't see it being that long till i have saved up enough for one of the new ones, they look lovely. Hopefully the c2w scheme will run again in June 😀

I am also being (sorely) tempted by one of these.

Bontrager-esque (and therefore a good thing).

noteeth:
Yes indeed, my thoughts too. Great minds such as Cy and KB obviuosly think alike!
I came from a Race OR to the Soul. Only thing missing now is the anti chainsuck plate underneath the chainstays. Having had suck for the first time in donkeys years on the Soul, I miss it. But I do love the Soul!
Cy - any thoughts about incorperating an anti chainsuck plate at a later date?
cheers
Q

my large black is in its box in the front room while my shoulder heals and I decide what stuff to build up with. Choices, choices...

Frame itself looks nice.

[i]I came from a Race OR to the Soul.[/i]

I'm still riding a Race... and I'm a sucker for wishbones. My Bonty is a large and I'm 5'11 or so, but I'm guessing a medium Cotic is probably my size, given the TT length.

All this is idle speculation, mind... I'm still quite taken with the idea of getting [url= http://www.rocklobstercycles.com/ ]Paul Sadoff[/url] to build a "Nontrager"... 😀

Interested to hear that the Soul and Soda share the same geometry, I'm gonna have to have another look at a Soul.

Any chance of some more colour options?

Anyone riding the new Soul with 130 or 140mm forks? I think What Mtb tested it with 100mm's.Think they said you need lots of sag with 130mm or 140mm? I thought the original intent of the Soul was for long travel forks? Would like one and would probably use some 130mm Floats so would like some opinions!
Thanx Max

I thought my Soul was very average with a fork longer than 100m.In fact theres an article on the Cotic website where Cy recommends exactly that.I swapped out and got a Prince Albert which is a far better bike with a longer fork although its a bit heavier

I still have my Mark 1 and can't justify changing it as it is still great, just a little worn now - and I've never liked it with longer than 100mm forks, just felt too light at the front when climbing, though that could be my fork set up.

I remember unwrapping it when it arrived - my first niche/boutiquey bike purchase. MrsSwadey looked at me holding the frame and said "I wished you'd look at me like that"

I've been using 130mm forks for ages now, and used Magura Thors most of last year during the development. The key thing to making the bike work with longer forks is altering your position to suit. I pushed my saddle forward 10mm and it made all the difference, and actually doesn't make it feel as short as you might think. I was sceptical myself before doing it, but as the bike angles back with the longer forks the effective top tube increases, and the front end is raised, so you need to compensate. Sliding your saddle forward and dropping your bars 10mm will keep things sweet. Worth noting on the WMB article that although it was a lovely write up, they didn't actually try the bike with longer forks so the setup thoughts were opinion rather than tested 'fact'.

No chance of a chainsuck plate. You're the only person who's ever asked!

Funny you should mention KB. When it was all getting very horrid with dealing with the CEN regs early last year, he gave me a lot of time when I needed to get up the learning curve on gussets PDQ. Good guy.

Colours-wise, it'll be black or orange for the foreseeable future. We'll always do black as it's been proven to be commercial suicide not to! We'll mix it up a bit about once a year from now on I reckon.

Cy:
I'm surprised that no one else has ever asked. For once I'm unique!
I'd have thought it would have added a lot to build costs, cos it's sort of fiddly. Must have a weakening effect on the chainstays too, having a hole in each for the bolt to hold on the plate.
oh well..... never mind, always wanted to ask though!
cheers
Q

Cy wrote, "Oh, and whoever asked "what's better?" about the new Soul, the biggest difference in ride feel is due to..."

I wasn't so much wondering why it's different, I'm wondering what the result is on the trails. I mean, I would you say if I transferred all the kit off my old one onto a new one, would it feel particularily different?

Turnerfan1:

"Anyone riding the new Soul with 130 or 140mm forks? I think What Mtb tested it with 100mm's.Think they said you need lots of sag with 130mm or 140mm?"

I've run my old one with 140mm Revelations briefly- I know it's verboten but it didn't snap 😉 I liked it very much, I wouldn't run it at 140mm the whole time but it was good to have as an option with the u-turn. I found 110-140 a little more useful for a trailbike than 100-130.

Oh, that WMB review, it seems to me that they were simply talking total c**k. They seemed to think that you'd want to get the exact same geometry with a 140mm fork as you do with a 100mm fork, that's the only way their comments really make sense as you'd need a load of sag to do that. But why would you want that? To me half the point of the longer fork on the Soul is to change the geometry! And if you're going to sag all your travel away you may as well not have it at all. It was a very strange, MBR-esque comment.

karnali - Member

sold my mk1 cos the forks caught the down tube,

you can buy headsets that over come this problem! it wasn't the frames fault!

🙄

No chance of a chainsuck plate. You're the only person who's ever asked!

Ever so slightly off topic , but ...
My mate bought a 2nd hand Soda of the Ebay . Classic case of guy buys frame with best intentions of building it up / cant afford it / external ( spousal ) influences , etc .
So , my buddy gets a deal on a MK 1 Soda , but then has to hide it from his less than sypathetic GF .( in this instance I am referring to GirlFriend , NOT Gary Fisher ) so , 12 months ,at least ,pass , and it's still in a box in the loft .
He's still hoofing around on his top spec GF Cake ( this time it's Gary Fisher , OK ), and I suggest , " Simply " swapping all the bits over = no GF stress , and the GF wont catch any harm spending a bit of time in the loft . In a box .
Now , he's not Au Fait with bike spannery , and whilst I'm not qualified , I'm OK with hammers . So I swapped it for him .
It came out to be one of the nicest bikes I've ever , er , spannered . V. Nice .
He's made up with it .
The thing is , I convinced him the forks would be alright . " Suck it n see " .
Theyre the maverick 5" ones .
It looks a bit tall , but it could be an optical illusion , due to the lack of fork brace . I dunno . Whatdya think . ?
Would it be more suited to 4"

Oh , the punchline is , I have his GF in my shed .She's a bit dirty.I think it's fair to say , she's seen some abuse .
I look at her from time to time , but I'm not sure if she's my kind of ride .

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/muddyfox1/DannysCoticBuild#

Just built my new Soul up with U turn coil Pikes and it is superb, keep it a 140mm all the time, have thought about getting some Revs or Thors to lighten it up a bit but for the time being the Pikes seem to be spot on (just a bit heavy) for my riding.

This is my first Cotic and always liked the look of them and my other hardtail bikes are a Curtis FR a Dekerf Team SL (now sold) and a Inbred slot drop out, must say the build quality and ride of the Soul is easily as good as the Curtis and Dekerf (which are both superb) at a fraction of the cost, seriously thinking of replacing the On One with a Cotic Simple whilst they are still available?

Anybody got any views/comments on the Simple?

Views/comments on the Simple? It's a Soul without the geary bits 😉 Simple is still 130mm tubeset spec, but apart from that all the same.

muddyfox courier - Your mates Soda will be sweet with Mav's on. They're actually fairly short for their travel so you'll get some nice trail handling out of them. Give 'em a go. Thanks for the kind words too.

Christowkid - Yeah, drilling holes in high stressed parts of frames ain't great. That's why you'll not find Crud bosses on a Cotic. Interesting that a couple of you have had chainsuck. Me and the team genuinely never have, and speaking for myself (I know the others would be upset with me grouping them in this) I don't really go to town on washing my bikes after each ride. Bit of a squirt/wipe/lube really. The only thing different on a Cotic is fairly short chainstays which will cause a slightly more acute angle on the chain in extreme crossovers, but stuff like middle and big, or little ring and 3rd/4th shouldn't cause any trouble. Oddness.

I have a Simple. Mine is all stealthy black, with Pikes which I have set at 125mm, hope disks, 2.35" tyres and a Gravity Dropper.

I love riding it. It is really fun, light and easy to move around. Uphills out of the saddle are easy because it is lightweight, and with the saddle dropped going down, I love flicking it about, hopping over things. It encourages me to pump and flow and ride smoothly. It is an excellent ride.

Chain Suck weird innit..
I actually rang Cotic about a chain suck plate as i have suffered since i got my soul 2 years ago..
Tried loads of different lubes,as suggested, new complete drive chain and still get Chain suck.
I swapped the complete drive chain from my soul to my other bike and vice versa guess what, Chain suck on the Soul but not the other bike..
Just can't work it out...

Can i run 130 for on my Soul safely cant remember what the specs where for that model bought it Feb 2008

Ta Nog

I ride a very old Mk 1 Soul with a 130mm Magura fork. Its bashed, scratched, rusty, bent (the bars come closer to the top tube when I turn them left than when I turn them right and the headseat bottom cup is loose, unless I pack it with ptfe tape) and welded by my local garage where the chainstay snapped.

It feels fine to me, but I've nothing else to compare it to.

My cure for chain suck: Deore steel chainrings and 3 in 1 chain lube. Or singlespeed.

BigJohn

Got a steel middle ring..

I like to go fast so gears are essential..very sceptical that lube can make any real difference....

Comment on the Simple Cy? Absolutely stonking!!

I've got an espresso one with 100mm magura durins, hope wheels and brakes, king headset, thomson bits, gobi saddle, basically my dream spec including some lovely middleburn cranks.

It rides fantastically and is so much lighter than my previous P7. Its a rocket uphill with the fork lockout definitely helping.

I'll be interested to see what you do with it when you order the next batch.

Well, any next batch of Simples is a while away. It'll obviously sprout the front end of the new Soul for CEN reasons, but I'm mucking about with the idea of chucking the oversized BFe seat tube in it to make it stiffer under stomping. Dunno, it's a long way off and a lot of other stuff to do first.

Just wondering if anyone of around 6'5" has any positive or negative experience of riding a Soul - the website states the Large goes up to 6'3" and there aint an XL. I know it depends on how you ride, etc. but I thought I'd ask anyway. Cheers.

Whatever you do, don't give it an EBB or anything silly like that! I was concerned about getting the rear wheel out on slot drop outs with disc brakes but I've had no problems. Keep it erm.... simple 😀

Not noticed too much flexing from the back end under stomping although I'm not the most agressive of riders.

I ride a medium bfe and Im 6foot2 n a bit. 65mm stem and some 2 inch riser bars. the saddle also goes high enough for off road stuff without any problems. You should be ok on a large.

BigJohn - I suspect your bars are bent!

Nope - unless both of the ones I tried are bent the same. But as I always seem to fall to the right, that might not be impossible.

But anyway, when I look from the front I can see the headtube and seattube are not quite in line. But as we all turn differently left and right, it makes no difference at all.

Cy, I agree with Clembo, can you please not do anything crazy to the Simple, just keep it...er...simple! I ride a small, so I suppose that makes the frame stiffer (is that right?), but I have to be honest I've never really felt it flexing like that in a bad way, even when grunting up the steepest climbs. Get it CEN compliant like the Soul, ready for 140mm forks and release it to your adoring public.

your adoring public.

now this is getting silly

when will there be a feature on Cy in O.K! magazine? i'm sure his 'adoring public want to see pics of him relaxing on the sofa in chino's with his adorable wife watching a Humongous plasma tv while chinking gaudy gold rimmed champagne glasses full of don-perignon.

I'm sure Cy would too. 😉

LOL@MrSmith

Been thinking about a Soul to replace my current hardtail - a Chameleon. But this talk of chain suck worries me. Never suffered from this problem before so not really au fait with it.

As I understand it, it's fairly misunderstood though some frames seem more prone to it. Is it a geometry problem? This isn't a Cotic bashing post - I have a RoadRat and love it, I'm just concerned about buying a frame and opening myself up to a problem I've never suffered from before.

Don't forget he has to be bare foot with a labrador and new born baby close by... 😀

How can chainsuck be caused by a frame?

I cured chainsuck on my Sanderson by tweaking the bottom bracket length (2mm longer in my case). Problem solved.

Just out of interest - How many Large Simples left? - Just out of interest

"How can chainsuck be caused by a frame?"

It can't, but frame clearance can mean that a near-suck moment becomes a suck moment, as it were. Like the old Inbred. But I don't think the Soul has any problem here tbh, certainly never hit me at all. I did manage to chainsuck on my testride on a Soul but that was a full-on chain wrapped around the rings, not frame clearance.

But this talk of chain suck worries me.

Don't let it, Shibboleth.

I think it's safe to say that chainsuck on Cotic Souls tends to be isolated cases. I've had a Soul, a BFe, and now a new Soul; all have had different drivetrain and I have never had a problem with it.

never had chainsuck here in 3 years.

yea , thanks Cy .
I think part of it , as I said , was optical . The mavericks having no forkbrace look a bit off .
I think also , it hasnt got the big burly look of a typical 5" ish fork HT , so you kinda think it should be on a 4" , more XC-ey/racey setup.

I'll try and prise him off one week and give it a thrashing .
Or will I ?
Maybe I'll just take it easy , and maybe stop a while , and take in a nice view .
Cheers , TIM

Sorry, didn't mean to highjack into a Chainsuck paranoia thread.
Mine occurred going from granny up to middle, on an XT setup. Eventually took off the chainset and I did notice a bur on the granny. No idea why or how it got there cos I'm too much of a wuss to go log jumping etc. Anyway, I asked a general question on here about burs, bought a chain guage and now realise it's time for a new chain, which might have something to do with it! Today bought a new chain, so hopefully will be ok next time.
I've wrapped rubber tape arounfd the chainstays and a row of zip ties, so if it does/did suck, that prevents damage......but finges crossed I'm sorted with a new chain.

Shibboleth: I bought my Soul having never ridden or even seen one, purely on trust and the fact the sizes and angles were similar to what I was already riding, but my od bike couldn't take new forks etc. without upsetting geometry, had a 1" headset etc.
It is a superb bike, climbs like a dream ( if only my legs did!!!) feels really good and I'm seriously wondering about the new frame and transferring my kit over. It is a very nice frame to ride.

cheers
Q

Sighs

I have an 06 Soul (I think might be an 07)
anyway I was running it with 130mm Revs.. sagged to about 95 to 100mm..

and it was good and great to ride.. with an easy wind down option to 100mm for XC race duties as required.

but the Revs needed some TLC like alot of it..
So I took my Lyriks and put them on. wound down to 135 to 140mm sagged to about 115mm..

very different ride - the Revs up front, the bike was nimble and fast through singletrack.
the Lyriks up front - the bike was distintly heavier but it doesnt half plough through a trail with the backend flicking about.. its lots of fun..

Did a demo at Dales Bike Centre this weekend and fell in love - I'm now a fully paid up member (literally) of the Cy fan club.

This thread is giving me lots of useful ideas for the build so keep it up please! (Admittedly I was planning on keeping it cheap and transferring stuff across from the old bike but all these nice builds are making me very jealous 😛 )

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Stirlingcrispin:
" I cured chainsuck on my Sanderson by tweaking the bottom bracket length (2mm longer in my case). Problem solved. "

Just re-read the thread. Exactly how did you increase the bb length?
Another possibility to consider maybe if the new chain fails to work.
cheers
Q

Big John,

Are you riding the Soul I used to have then? I know 'Thighs Of Oak' put some nice gouges in the chainstay before I had it, and it broke after I sold it to Del...I assumed it went to frame heaven after that.

Erm, think we've got one large Simple left in Builders' Tea. Got a few mediums in Espresso and Builders' Tea.

If there's clearance for the rings, it's possible to alter your chainline on modern cranks by putting the spacer in the BB on the non-driveside.

Good thread fellas. LOL @ OK Mag comments. (sitting on sofa next to lovely wife watching 15 year old telly in baggies and wolly socks).

Builders Tea for the win baby!
[IMG] [/IMG]

Absolutely Love the way it rides, just cant get enough of it!! just spot on! mine comes in at 25lb but rides like its 20!
shame i have a Stinking cold and wisdom tooth ache to keep me wrapped up at home! 🙁

i do now prefer the builders tea colour over the other options, just nice to have something a little different!

Oh just to redress the balance about chain suck as my comments may seem like im Cotic bashing 😳 , its not all the time, just now and again randomly sometimes with months inbetween,thats what baffles me..despite this its still the best Hardtail i have ever owned and would buy another instantly if this one died or was nicked...and i could kill Cy for bringing the new one out in Orange..Bloody Gorgeous, as are most Orange things... 😀

And Cy ya need ya socks off for true Ok style...... 😀

Timmo, what size is the frame and how tall are you?
Thanks.

No chance of a chainsuck plate. You're the only person who's ever asked!

Really? Not even JamesD when he destroyed the chainstay on his Mk1? I know my Mk1 took a bit of a chewing before I moved to a 118 BB.

And my Mk1 is full of fully-matured 6 year old awesome, thanks!

If you're getting chainsuck every few months then it's your drivetrain's way of telling you that you need a new drivetrain! I guess I ride a lot, and ride in gritstone areas, but even spread across two main bikes I'm lucky to get more than 6 months out of a chain and middle ring.

Nice to a see a Builders' Tea frame being appreciated. Lovely colours they were, but not many people thought so unfortunately. The orange is to die for though 😉 [looks at the THREE crazy orange bikes in the garage and smiles]

Hiya Will. Is there going to be enough snow for the Olympics then?

I think your old Soul might still be around but mine's the one that Scruff had and resprayed white. That had a few gouges but it also developed a crack, spreading out from the little drain hole on the chainstay by the dropout. Nothing that a little blob of weld didn't put right.

sweedish, its a M i htink, 18", and am 6ft,
pretty much never move the seat post either, set to the leg straight with heel on the pedal.
such a great ride though,

Thanks Timmo, at 6,2" and liking a long bike I guess I'll need a large, although I alwaýs like the look of a bike with a lot of seat post out of the frame.