Cooked my brakes in the alps

I’ve turned my brakes black plenty of times in the alps and they’ve always been fine after cooling down and having some less draggy action for a while.

As above, they'll be fine assuming you have a good lever still. Crack on and try letting it go more.

Also, when you come to a stop don't sit with your fingers on the brakes - sure fire way to warp them especially Ice tech rotors.

Ok thanks, that's encouraging. Yeah levers still solid and still effective but howling like a banshee, which made me try a bit harder to let go! Might not have helped that it was 34⁰ today 🥵

I had big problems with race matrix pads glazing over on descents.

I'd just try some other pads.

I would second uberbike racematrix not standing up to the alps. Exactly the same thing happened to me and my partner last year, we ended up having to replace rotors too. Changed our for swissstop endurance pads and they were faultless for the rest of the trip until I blew my shock in Pila.

See if you can get hold of some other pads if possible.

I found uber bike race matrix pads not up to the job on big european descents.

How heavy are you?

Interesting, thanks both. If they're still bad tomorrow I'll seek out a bike shop for fresh pads. Unfortunately I only have the same pads as spares.

Not mega heavy at 75kg and at the cautious end of the riding spectrum!

Other dude with us has race matrix on his XT 4pots and his are fine but he's probably not a brake dragger.

I’ll say the same as I always do for these things. Cheap, shyte pads are cheap for a reason.

Case in point last week, my other half did a set of OE pads half way into the trip & when were out. We had an old (but new) set of Ubersh*te pads in a sealy bag in the SWAT box so chucked them in to finish the day.

Howled like a pig, braking performance was significantly worse & they felt like crap.

Swapped out for some OE sintered pads that evening & back to normal. That’s the last set we had kicking around, straight into the bin.

I’ll only run OE, Swisstop or Trickstuff pads for this very reason.

We have just got back from a tour of the Alps. Leogang, Livingo, Lenzerheide and Verbier.

All the bikes are on Racematrix and no problems.

Only had to change one set of pads which had worn down halfway through the second week.

Shimano 203 rotors and Saint brakes

Another vote here for racematrix pads being shite.
On Galfer reds and also in Les Arcs area ATM.
I won't even run them at home in the Tweed Valley as they're just not up to the job.

Just got back from 2 weeks of 5k days in the Alps - Les Arcs and surrounding area.

I used OEM Code sintered pads and went through
two sets (one front and one back) whilst I was out there.

I do run 220mm and 200mm HST rotors.

They do occasionally groan, funnily enough when I’d stopped and let them cool down a bit.

The main thing that has benefitted me has been going from comfort braking to picking braking areas, and then getting off the brakes between them.

Interestingly enough my Code Rs started to howl like a banshee on the downs in the Alps - and they got very hot (blue discs).  Trees near by by spontaneously combusting etc

I changed over the uberbike race matrix pads before I went  on the back - which were really bad

On the front I had Uberbike E-Bike compound - as I am 105kgs ....

I've cooked a few over there. Only had one that went a bit too warped to be usable. They usually come back. Best to get out of the dragging habit. It's hard when it's steep and goes on and on. On bigger descents I try to go a bit harder on the brakes, slow more than is actually needed, then go fully off and speed up, and repeat. Helps me actually ride a bit faster rather than constantly comfort braking.

Now y'all got me thinking.

I just removed the OEM pads from the RSCs and fitted the lightly used race matrix.

Mmmmm

Saints or 4 pot XTs with finned pads and 203mm rotors helps.  I also think resin over metal pads as the metal ones can really heat up

I just removed the OEM pads from the RSCs and fitted the lightly used race matrix.

Why automatically replace the OEMs? Otherwise, the Uberbikes will probably be fine if not dropping 1,000m in a run

put oem pads in your brakes. sintered, unless your rotors aren’t compatible (some shimano rotors are  only for use with resin pads).

Why automatically replace the OEMs?

BEcause he generally runs the Race MAtrix. That's the simplest answer.

On bigger descents I try to go a bit harder on the brakes, slow more than is actually needed, then go fully off and speed up, and repeat. Helps me actually ride a bit faster rather than constantly comfort braking.

This is the way.

what size rotors are you running, i'd just upgraded to tech4e4s and went with a 180 rear (stealth ad, silver), pmba graithwaite they absolutely howled, and i felt underbraked, just put on a 200 to match the front, didnt hear the brakes at ardmoors or pmbaAE felt so much better

Thanks all, I'll inspect the pads before riding today de-glaze them if needed. 180 SLX rotors f and r, which is ordinarily fine for me. Deore 4 pots.

180mm isn’t enough for the Alps.

I’d say 200mm front and rear, or even 220 front.

Sorry to hijack but seems pointless making a new thread as it's related to the discussion, I'm using uberbike race matrix and find they over heat a lot, I'm 20st 12lbs (down from 22st 6lbs in may woohoo) which means I'm needing to bleed my brakes quite often.
Does anyone know if you can use heatsink/finned ebike pads in normal calipers? Brakes are SRAM Guide, no "T" or "R" or anything as my bikes a 2016 bike and they didn't have those variations at the time.

https://imgur.com/a/dltUosT

On inspection the pads don't look too bad and the rear disc must have cleaned up a bit on the last run. But the front not looking good.

I'll see how they perform today.

Just got back from the alps, half of our group cooked their rear brakes.

sintered were the worse for howling, race matrix much better.

Got used to stopping for to de-glaze the pads on various convenient concrete steps. Made an huge difference to the howling.

I'm a serial brake dragger, my pal who isn't didn't have any issues. The alps probably isn't the easiest place to undo bad habits though...

I'd say bigger rotor - 200mm and avoid dragging.

half of our group cooked their rear brakes.

Learn to use your front brake instead of just dragging the rear all the way.

I’d say bigger rotor – 200mm and avoid dragging.

This.

Got used to stopping for to de-glaze the pads on various convenient concrete steps. Made an huge difference to the howling.

I assume you mean pads out and a scrape on the concrete to rough them up a bit?

I'll add my 2p. I've used Race Matrix for a number of years in the Alps, with no problems at all. Until last year in the Alps. As OP and others have said wailed like a  banshee and poor performance. I'm not sure if the manufacturing process was altered, but I will be taking a number of different branded pads this year. I have also up'd my rotor size - mine also went pretty black.

I used galfer blacks in Les arcs last week no issues and plenty of life left in them.

One guy was on Ubers 7 changes, if I remember right, and a blued then blackened disc. By his own admission a brake dragger.

IME of riding in the Alps, the difference from riding at home, especially if doing enduro/big mountain days, is that the amount of vertical you can do in one hit (with a few stops) is massively bigger. Also it's steeper over much longer distances.

I think Dyfi has the biggest bike park vertical drop in the UK at ~ 400m. In the Alps if you're doing guided riding a 2k drop is possible in one hit without having to get back on the uplift.

This means that brakes that are completely adequate in the UK are tested (like every other component) much more in the Alps, especially when you add in unfamiliarity with the terrain.

When I've ridden there with brakes that are too small, there are two problems. Firstly they overheat and tend to stop working. Secondly is that the braking effort needed at the lever is fatiguing and contributes to arm pump.

Both of these problems mean that when I've had brakes that are too small, they've tired me out and I've lost confidence in them. When I'm tired and lacking confidence I tend to ride the brakes more, and so on in a vicious cycle.

The more that I ride in the alps, the more that I think that for mere mortals like me (not the guides or pros) bike set up is absolutely paramount. Big brakes, correct tyre set up, burly forks and piggy back shocks are all vital IMO.

Swissstop are really good. Racematrix im less so sure of. I like their swappable fin backs for my codes though. Seem to work reasonably well.

I’ve generally found my codes to be poor in true alpine conditions though. They have great initial power, but when heat soaked they fade badly. I’m running 220/200 on a 25kg emtb and 100kg of gorilla at the helm, so they have a lot to deal with, granted. But they’re not V4s.

I did a week in Les Arcs (and La Thuile, etc, with white room) a couple of weeks ago and one set of race matrix saw me through despite my being what I'd consider a terrified brake-dragger for a lot of the trip with lots of spares in the pack. 200mm/180mm avid code brakes on a Bronson v3, lightweight rider, beautiful weather for the most part and then wet for the last day and a half. There was a point on one afternoon where the brakes performance dipped for a bit so the levers were pulling back further to get any action, presumably overheating. Stamina for holding the damn things so long was more my issue, that and the terror. A great time all in all.

200mm rotors (at least, unless you're teeny) and choice of pads, Organic for dry and sintered for wet days, make sure your sintered are pre-bedded in. Make sure your rotors have plenty of life in them - get the callipers out and replace them if they're under 1.5mm for SRAM and Shimano, and 1.8mm for Magura.

Just back from 4 days in Morzine / Les Gets.  Bit of a noise at the end of a couple of particularly long descents but otherwise worked fine. Used Race Matrix for years, never had an issue - yet..

Sorry to hijack but seems pointless making a new thread as it’s related to the discussion, I’m using uberbike race matrix and find they over heat a lot, I’m 20st 12lbs (down from 22st 6lbs in may woohoo) which means I’m needing to bleed my brakes quite often.
Does anyone know if you can use heatsink/finned ebike pads in normal calipers? Brakes are SRAM Guide, no “T” or “R” or anything as my bikes a 2016 bike and they didn’t have those variations at the time.

As nobody has answered you, I found Guides struggled with my 12st weight on steeper or longer trails.

Could you stretch to some 4-pot brakes? Shimano Deore are cheap & good.

And you can definitely fit finned pads in Shimano 4-pots if still needed.

Could you stretch to some 4-pot brakes?

I thought Guides were/are 4 pot? They're not the best brakes that ever there was though, that's for sure. I don't think I'd want to rely on them in the Alps

I fitted some of the 2.3mm thick rotors and non-finned pads in Shimano saints. The (comparatively) large mass of steel in the rotor and unimpeded air flow through the caliper made more sense to me than tiny fins trying to conduct heat away. I still dragged the crap out of them and cooked them anyway because I'm a massive scaredy cat.

Do also check your rotor thickness prior to leaving. This happened to one of our group 500m into a 1500m descent. 😳

Agree with the above, Guides can get overwhelmed with alpine riding.  Bang for buck I'd be looking at Codes, Shimano are just too inconsistent.

I've just had the pleasure of using my Hope Tech4 E4s in the alps, Galfer black pads, 200mm SRAM rotors.  Good consistent braking, plenty of power, no hand fatigue, no noise, no overheating.

Another race matrix non-fan here. I really liked them in the UK, took them out to the alps and they were just awful, dangerously inconsistent. Stopped at the first opportunity, replaced both with boggo superstar kevlars which worked perfectly. FWIW I've never had a similiar issue with any other pad ever, I still use the same brakes and I've had them smoking and the rotors completely discoloured a few times but without loss of performance (except for that time I branded a perfect brake disc shape into my leg)

The amount of variation in reviews is interesting though, it makes me wonder if they have issues with specific fitments? (mine are Formula The Ones frinstance). Obviously brakes vary a lot too. But it felt like they have a window of operation where they're good, and outside that, they're instantly awful. That can happen with car and motorbike pads too of course, I love my bog standard EBC Ultimax on the road but take them to the track and you will have Regrets, I think for a lot of people an alps trip is a lot like a trackday is for a "fast road car".

Your rotors will probably be fine as long as they're not warped. FWIW I don't think there's any point in trying to fix a brake issue with pads or discs (other than replacing bad parts of course or going up a size), all this fins on pads or aluminium rotors madness- this is a solved problem, all my bikes have the same Formulas from 2010 and they do not need massive discs, fins, anything like that, they're just really good brakes with normal parts and they work. Other really good brakes are available but bizarrely you can still spend a lot of money on absolute shit brakes that just aren't really fit for purpose. Maybe e-bikes are an exception but even then probably not.

Back to performing well again today. I was making a conscious effort not to drag them and zero honking and carrying more speed were my rewards. Did one black which was techy and slow (for me) where I was heavy on the brakes but they were great. Rotors have returned to silver. Thanks all for the input.

 I think for a lot of people an alps trip is a lot like a trackday is for a “fast road car”.

Absolutely. I used to think that piggy back shocks were overkill for most "trail" riding, however every time I rode black 8 (fast, slightly techy downhill with ~ 800m vertical in Les Arcs) by the bottom I could feel the heat radiating off the piggy back from my Float X.