[Closed] Contador suspended 2 years

Because they did not consider the main evidence about the blood transfusions as contadors lawyers managed to persuade them not to - which almost caused WADA to walk away from the hearing. If you don't look at the evidence yo cannot rule on it.

Why do you want to defend this confirmed drug cheat?

At least they upheld the basic point that its strict liability - drugs in your system means a ban.

I don't I just read the article and didn't see any reference to thwe transfusion that you go on about sand thought I would ask the question. 🙄

i genuinely think its just a sport that will and has always had such a problem

I actually think it one of the few sports that has stood up and done something about drugs, look how football and particularly rugby just buries their heads in the sand and pretends there is no problem, cycling is 10 years ahead of the game by comparison.

http://road.cc/content/news/50148-wada-lawyers-considered-walking-out-contador-cas-hearing-after-key-testimony

Probably the easiest way to level the field is to just simply allow doping.

Great, so where DO you draw the line? Pro-Tour? Pro-Continental? Domestic Cat 1? Go Race under 12's?

TJ thank you for posting that Michael Ashenden NY Velo piece. Very interesting reading.

Boris - all racing. At the lower levels the only drugs available are likely to be coke or speed off the street. Could result in some interesting cat 4 races.

Boris - all racing. At the lower levels the only drugs available are likely to be coke or speed off the street. Could result in some interesting cat 4 races.

I think you underestimate how easy it is to get hold of performance enhancing drugs.

I'm sure I do, I've never tried!

Anybody got any Vera's?

fill 'em full of coke in bike races and watch the heart attacks happen

Well no wonder you never made it, if you had got with the program, you could have been a contender!

fill 'em full of coke in bike races and watch the heart attacks happen

There's that story of riders in the 90's sleeping with HR monitors on, set up to alarm when their HR dropped below a certain level. Their blood was so thick from EPO they had to get on turbos in the middle of the night to get their hearts pumping again.That was before any sort of EPO testing, Pantani was the worst by all accounts...

And here's a 'clean' Lance Armstrong toying with the heavily juiced up best climber of his generation on Alpe D'Heuz. It's embarrassing.

Alpe D'Heuz. It's embarrassing

Yes it is - particularly as on my machine it looks rather like Mont Ventoux

Sorry 😉

warton it's embarrassing you are under the impression that video clip is on Alpe d'Huez.

Try Mont Ventoux.

LOL, so it is. I shall retreat quietly from this thread 😳

Great, so where DO you draw the line? Pro-Tour? Pro-Continental? Domestic Cat 1? Go Race under 12's?

I think the current system is fine, You do drugs you get caught, you win and theres no evidence you end up gathering attention from the conspiracy theorists. I find it sad that someone does well they instantly get hated.

I know a few people who have been through cancer and have found Lance Armstrong an inspiration. Also his work for charity is impeccable.

Also his work for charity is impeccable

I'm sorry, I should really let this go, but it's absolutely not. It's great that your friends got inspiration from him, and that is something he gives to people on a daily basis, but his 'charity' work is nothing more than a self promoting exercise. Livestrong pays him $200k every time he appears at a Livestrong event. Something like 45% of Livestrongs turnover is spent on his legal fees. HIS legal fees, not Livestrongs. thats money that should be getting spent on researching and fighting cancer, but it's not, it's being spent on HIS libel cases.

Livestrong pays him $200k every time he appears at a Livestrong event. Something like 45% of Livestrongs turnover is spent on his legal fees. HIS legal fees, not Livestrongs. thats money that should be getting spent on researching and fighting cancer, but it's not, it's being spent on HIS libel cases

Now I'm not going to say its right, BUT if its 55% of it turnover going on Cancer research its 55% of something rather than 55% of nothing. There is plenty of people in this world that could equal that contribution quiet easily but simply don't.

Now I'm not going to say its right, BUT if its 55% of it turnover going on Cancer research its 55% of something rather than 55% of nothing

Charity absolutely cannot work like that. Where do you draw the line?

Well that's the argument I suppose, and you're right, he's done much, much more than pretty much anyone else. But the public image and the truth are a long way off each other.

Livestrong pays him $200k every time he appears at a Livestrong event. Something like 45% of Livestrongs turnover is spent on his legal fees. HIS legal fees, not Livestrongs. thats money that should be getting spent on researching and fighting cancer, but it's not, it's being spent on HIS libel cases.

Can you quote your sources on that? I'm not questioning you just genuinely interested in those figures.

Charity absolutely cannot work like that. Where do you draw the line?

There must be line somewhere in the regulations of being a charity,

as Tesco would just give 5% of profits to cancer research and declare themselves as a charity and reap the benefits.

The turnover / legal fees were in their last set of accounts, sometime in 2011.

This was calculated from their 2009 books

In 2009 Livestrong spent $15,377,233 on legal fees & salaries vs $11,775,916 paid out to grants & programs.

At the time I did some basic comparisons with oxfam and another charity I forget the name of and I was amazed at the difference.

The turnover / legal fees were in their last set of accounts, sometime in 2011.

Linky? : )

Well that's the argument I suppose, and you're right, he's done much, much more than pretty much anyone else. But the public image and the truth are a long way off each other.

Well lets look at Bill Gates. By all accounts a nice bloke, has engaged in some less than pleasant business practices but because he's not won any bike races (as an example), he's ignored. He's given $28 BILLION to charity. He doesn't get paid by his foundation and doesn't chase everyone who has something bad to say about him.

What Lance has done is given motivation and inspiration which isn't bad, but lets not pretend he's a philanthropist. Livestrong is about his brand.

Anyway, back to Contador, the Spanish blokes in the office here in Luxembourg are quite miffed that Contador got the ban but can't talk too much about it as the local hero is the main beneficiary 🙂

Is the National Lottery a charity?

Is the National Lottery a charity?

No - yet it still manages to give a larger proportion of profit to good causes than Livestrong (the only reason Livestrong even comes close is because of the proportion the government skims off).

Serious question - is Livestrong an official charity, or a fundraising organsation that donates some of it's money to 'good causes' ?

Looking at www.livestrong.org, 'charity' is not mentioned anywhere ...

it's a Foudation, what exactly does that mean legally (in the US). Does a Foundation have to be charitable? If not could I start my own, perhaps to put a bonus in and say it's gone to charity. Is this what Fred Goodwin should have done?

It isn't a charity no, It was, under the lance armstrong foundation, but LA and his directors quietly turned it into a for profit organisation. so when people are buying wrist bands and t shirts they are, in fact, giving lots of money to Nike and LA (and a %age to the part of the company that gives money to anti cancer programmes and research)

All my hopes are on Wiggo for the TDF then, watching Andy Schleck ask Cuddles to chase down Contador on the Alpe d'Heuz last year was just embarassing.

Wiggins, no chance. Froome has a better chance than him. Shame though.

Wiggins, no chance. Froome has a better chance than him. Shame though.

Maybe, it will be an interesting press conference when Team Sky announce that. 🙂

are you mad Froome better than Wiggo nah
Spain has super steep climbs that Le tour does not have and Wiggo did crack [ish]then but it was also after a slight lay off

Froome is not in the same class as Wiggo yet [who should podium IMHO] an dhas only riodden the tour once before

http://www.livestrong.org/What-We-Do/Our-Approach/Where-the-Money-Goes

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Pages/home.aspx

Only in the search function does it provide hits on 'charity' (links to others)

Maybe in the US certain org's want a different definition of what we'd call Charidee?

It isn't a charity no, It was, under the lance armstrong foundation, but LA and his directors quietly turned it into a for profit organisation

Hmm. Not convinced thats actually the case. It is a fact the Livestrong.com is a commercial entity licensed to an external company as opposed to the foundation website at livestrong.org. Also a bit sceptical of the speculation about legal fees - happy to be proven wrong though.

This is a very insightful piece on LiveStrong including what they actually fund these days :

[url= http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/athletes/lance-armstrong/Its-Not-About-the-Lab-Rats.html ]http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/athletes/lance-armstrong/Its-Not-About-the-Lab-Rats.html[/url]

aracer - Member

Is the National Lottery a charity?

No - yet it still manages to give a larger proportion of profit to good causes than Livestrong (the only reason Livestrong even comes close is because of the proportion the government skims off).

Sorry to be a pedant Smiley face thingy dont work.
So that's profit not turnover then. Livestrong gives a % of total income generated as apposed to the National Lottery that gives a % of profit.

So that's profit not turnover then. Livestrong gives a % of total income generated as apposed to the National Lottery that gives a % of profit.

Well the turnover of the NL includes prizes - you'd hardly expect 80% of turnover to go to good causes in that case. Apologies for not managing a better term for "income less prizes".

So - was Schleck on the juice then too?

Does one get to a certain age that turns you into a bitter and hateful character directed towards individuals?

I hope I never get there. If you are that convinced that hes a cheat/bad person why don't you chain yourselves to the gates of his house in protest?

It's ironic that so much more money may have gone to cancer research if he [LA] didn't have to keep spending so much of it defending himself against (to date 🙄 ) unproven drug taking allegations 🙁

Also a bit sceptical of the speculation about legal fees

It was in their published accounts for 2009 I think, I really can't be bothered to find them again, but its in there...

It was in their published accounts for 2009 I think, I really can't be bothered to find them again, but its in there...

Well, the accounts are all on the website, and sure, there are big numbers for legal fees but it doesn't seem to add up to the figures you quote and certainly doesn't say "here's what we stuck in the pot for Lance's expenses".

I'm no LA apologist by the way, and I think livestrong seems to be a triumph of marketing over achievement in many ways, but I am a bit of an arse about wanting provocative facts to be substantiated 🙂

Does one get to a certain age that turns you into a bitter and hateful character directed towards individuals?

I hope I never get there. I

It's ironic that so much more money may have gone to cancer research if he [LA] didn't have to keep spending so much of it defending himself against (to date ) unproven drug taking allegations

Ah - so it's all the fault of those who dare to question him? 🙄

So - was Schleck on the juice then too?

sorry

wrong tread

I love all this! This is what the internet was made for. A perfect sh!t storm of speculation.

All you eedjits moaning about innocent until proven guilty need to realise that idle speculation on the potential fall of public figures is one of the purest and most exhilarating of human pasttimes. Especially if that public figure strikes you as a sanctimonious tw*t.

I have embraced this base emotion and am looking forward with delight to seeing how it all pans out.

Road biking has always been my first love, both riding and watching, but the years and years of doping scandals have made this a relationship of great highs and cheated lows, rather like my love life in general. But I feel I have become immune to the shock of it, rather like football fans and diving, and I would no longer be surprised to learn that any pro rider was doping.
I will miss Contador in the giro and tdf this year. I would guess last season was one of of his cleanest season's ever, given the scrutiny and testing he would have undergone, and this seems born out in some of the climbing times and the fact that many sport 'observers' were noting riders showing more obvious signs of exhaustion and distress at the end of stages. His performance in the giro was stunning, and maybe the lack of drugs ensured he couldn't carry the same form into the tdf, but in some of the late stages of the tdf he looked like a man riding for pride.
I love you all my drug filled beauties! Ride like the wind! I am ready to be heart broken 😥

not sure if this has ben posted yet but I found this very telling.

http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/2011/news/analysis-of-cas-alberto-contador-clenbuterol-doping-ban-ruling-by-matt-rendell-36542/

It was, they suggest, 'the transfusion of plasma
of 21 July 2010 which would have contaminated
the sample with clenbuterol ...'
It’s a scientifically respectable, intellectually
satisfying explanation, supported by evidence
from WADA’s expert witness Michael Ashenden
– one of the creators of the Biological Passport
and one of the most public anti- doping scientists
around – that 'Contador 's reticulocyte values
(i.e. , the population of young, recently- born red
cells in his blood) ... during the 2010 Tour de
France were atypical, and opposite to what
would have been expected’ (paragraph 132, on
page 25). Later, we read, ‘They [were] also
significantly higher than the values measured
during his previous victories at the Tour de
France (2007 and 2009), the 2008 Vuelta and
the 2008 Giro, while they should be
comparable’ (paragraph 351a) .
Ditto, his haemoglobin concentration (paragraph
351b ). ‘Such values are not consistent with Mr
Contador’s normal values and are difficult to
reconcile with physiological variations. As such,
they provide indications which would be
consistent with blood doping’ (paragraph 132,
on page 25) .

Shouldn't anyone who's managed to stay quite close to a confirmed doper also be under suspicion?

Thankfully you have managed to reach middle age with the outlook and maturity of a teenager..i can undertand why this fills you with pride....sadly it is in the wrong organ.

nothing quite sums up the inner workings of a cretins mind like the above

http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/2011/news/analysis-of-cas-alberto-contador-clenbuterol-doping-ban-ruling-by-matt-rendell-36542/

That guys writing style- he could probably half his piece to make it readable. 😐

I've not read all the last 6 pages so apologies if this link has been posted.

An interesting article from Outside magazine on where the Livestrong money goes and the minimal real term investment they actually make in cancer research.

Its actually about promoting hope don't you know

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/athletes/lance-armstrong/Its-Not-About-the-Lab-Rats.html

Thank goodness the internet dwellers and two-bit shock internet Journo's keep Lance on his toes.

I bet at the Leadville100 winLance must have been smacked up off his tits. 😆

I love you all my drug filled beauties! Ride like the wind! I am ready to be heart broken

An interesting article from Outside magazine on where the Livestrong money goes and the minimal real term investment they actually make in cancer research.

During an investigation that played out over several months—involving dozens of interviews and careful examination of Livestrong’s public financial records—I found no evidence that Armstrong has done anything illegal in his role as the face of the organization.
...
When Armstrong travels on Livestrong business, the foundation insists, he picks up his own tabs
...
The financial records appear to back up Armstrong’s assertion

So are we done now venting our collective spleens. Can we discuss who will win the tour?

Can we discuss who will win the tour?

Reliance Life Sciences but pFizer have to be in the running

I thought they were vying for the role as energy drinks suppliers.

Can we discuss who will win the tour?

That guys writing style- he could probably half his piece to make it readable

Too many long words for you?

1. Evans
2. A. Schleck
3. Wiggins

On the face of it the 2012 tour is going to be as exciting as playing I-Spy in the dark; a few mountain stages in between the time trials.
But of course, being a bike race, anything could happen.

ooh, here we go again;

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/feb/08/police-arrest-husband-jeannie-longo ]http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/feb/08/police-arrest-husband-jeannie-longo[/url]

[i]The husband of the Olympic cyclist Jeannie Longo has been arrested over the alleged purchase of the banned performance enhancer erythropoietin, known as EPO, according to reports in France.

A police official confirmed that Longo's apartment had been raided and Patrice Ciprelli, her husband and coach, arrested, but the 53-year-old cyclist herself had not been detained.

Longo has competed in seven Olympics and came 24th in the women's road race in Beijing four years ago, the event in which she won gold in 1996 and silver in 1992.

The police official did not provide further details, and declined to be identified by name.

The sports newspaper L'Equipe reported that a dozen officers from a police agency that focuses on environmental and public health led a search of the couple's property as part of a judicial probe opened in September.
[/i]

ooh, here we go again;

I love you all my drug filled beauties! Ride like the wind! I am ready to be heart broken

Off on a slight tangent, but here may be the best place to ask, can anyone point me in the direction of any good books about doping in cycling?

Menchov, now he could be an interesting winner. Is he not getting on a bit now? As I recall he is a really classy rider, is there any dirt on him? I'd jusy like to be warned in case he starts to do well.

Longo's husband is really old news.

can anyone point me in the direction of any good books about doping in cycling?

t-obias
Rough Rides, worth a read.

Bad Blood

or David Millars new book.

Probably the easiest way to level the field is to just simply allow doping.

You wouldn't be the first to suggest "stock" and "modified" classes.

And on a lighter note, Newsbiscuit reports "Bradley Wiggins still hopeful of victory in 2010 Tour de France"

can anyone point me in the direction of any good books about doping in cycling?

It's Not About the Bike

lol 😆

so the schleck thing - you are telling me his brother and probably closest friend had no idea he was doping? does this raise suspicion that as they are in the same team that if one of the brothers was doing it then so was the other? same teams, no doubt same trainers/coaches/doctors etc etc etc did one of the shclecks just get lucky/unlucky?!?! do you think one ignored the fact his brother was doping? im sure he knew even if he claims he didnt have anything, his morales for cycling are terrible given the fact he would have known his brother was doping and chose to ignore it and let him ride on, the only other explanation is he was on it too and got away with it

as far as i can see from my limited knowledge of road cycling, the sport looks completely corrupt from within, in order to win. whether that be team coaches, riders, doctors etc etc etc

there will be some genuine riders out there who dont do it im sure, but alot of them must indeed use doping to some extent to stay within reach of their opponents?

its truly truly truly corrupt, my personal view on the armstrong thing is that the man basically is 'cycling' they bring him down, and they bring down absolutly everything within cycling, tdf the whole lot....

no wonder there are so many coverups surrounding this, imagine cycling if armstrong was stripped of all his glory? cycling would be absolutly on its arse, and im not sure they are willing to risk 'finding' anything on the man

Thanks anc, bikebouy, aracer. I'll give them a try.

Lazybike - worth a try, might have to loose 7/8 stone, get fit and actually ride a road bike, but what the hell, can't be that difficult, right? 😀

Thanks ... aracer. I'll give them a try.

😆