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A male writes a respected review on a range of bikes. All bikes reviewed are large-framed men’s versions. He concludes bike ‘A’ is the best of the season in terms of handling and geometry.
My wife (50 kilos at 5’ 2” tall), wants one of these bikes but requires the female specific variant.
If the same male reviewer chooses the women’s version of bike ‘A’, would he still have picked them as the best for handling and geometry?
In other words, can you compare geometry and handling of the large-frame male bike over the female specific variant?
It's a good question, as things like wheels, forks and (mostly) chainstays stay the same size while front triangles get smaller, so proportions are different.
Often, the 'female specific' variant will come down to choice of grips, shock tune, saddle and perhaps one or two other things. The Geometry itself will often be exactly the same - there are as many, if not more variations within sexes than between them. When it comes to reviews, there are general issues between sizes such as different wheelbases, mass, centre of gravity etc, and the arbitrary nature of reviewers' subjective opinions being seen as objective - but you also need to factor in huge areas of uncertainty such as technique, riding style, where the reviewer rides etc. Even if someone of the same aptitude, weight, height, location etc were to review the same bike, there's no guarantee your wife would like it. But it's all information to help you make a choice.
In a nutshell, reviews are subjective. I'd suggest she ride the bike first if at all possible. If not, she needs to read as many reviews as she can, speak to people who might be the same size and aptitude as your wife (Facebook is actually useful for things like that) to help her make a decision that's not just based on one reviewer. What sort ion riding she likes etc.
The last point I'd make, though, is that there are very few sh*t bikes around these days. And people are capable of adapting to a great many tiny variations. Chances are, whatever she buys, with a bit of fiddling, she'll be happy with.
By my calculations against a few bikes with chainstay lengths (same on all sizes) ranging from 425mm to 447mm, you'd need to adjust the chainstay length by around 9mm for each size away from Large, to maintain the same front-center:rear-center ratio.
I think lots of brands dumped gender specific bikes. In part because it’s easier to choose reach and seat height separately. May be saddle needs changing between genders.
I’m 6 for 4 so U sort have the same problem.
But in the end you have to choose a bike. If test rides aren’t available then it’s just a matter of trying compare to what you have ridden to what you’ll buy
It’s stressful at the time. But in the end most bikes work or can be made to work for their owners. Facebook can be a good place to find riders of a specific bike and size for feedback
Interesting. Independently, we both gravitated towards the same two models based on price, spec and reviews: The Boardman MHT 8.6 and Carrera Fury.
At which point she realised the Boardman may have to be the women’s specific version with 27.5 wheels instead of the men’s 29s. So, any review of the men’s version couldn’t be relied upon. Equally, the Fury is not supplied woman specific, it would have to be a small frame, thus the reviewers note about stand-over height on the large frame model might not apply to the small frame.
Stock levels due to production are impacting which models are on the shopfloor, so the tendency is to display large or medium frames. She has yet to see a Boardman women’s 8.6, let alone a small Fury.
tbh you get the same problem across sizes!
A reviewer on a Medium frame, is going to have a very different Center of Gravity than a rider on an XL frame, where the height of the bars hasnt changed more than a few mm, but the top of the saddle has shifted up a clear 300mm, and backwards by 100mm.
For a smaller rider he bike becomes a much larger percentage of the GVW, big wheels have a higher relative inertia to overcome
Also, at 50kgs rather than your or My 100kgs is going to have a wildly different impact on suspension
I would suggest ignoring anything about gender specific bikes and look purely and what will fit the best. Some brands now have size specific chainstays or wheel size for instance. IMO the really important things to get right to feel confident on a bike are seat tube / insertion depth and reach. For what it's worth, a number of the women I ride with (including my other half) who are short, have now switched to mullet bikes and seem very happy with them. Bronson and Mega 297 specifically.
Excellent advice, and passed on to my wife. 🙂
Stiffness might be more of a factor than geometry. One of the biggest issues with many production bikes is the way a frame designed for an average male rider may be too stiff/harsh when scaled down in size for a smaller frame and lighter rider. Or at least it'll feel different to ride. There aren't many production (metal) bikes that use proportional tube specs.
Power and cadence isn't proportional to rider height or frame size though so it's not true to say a tubeset that's great for a large frame can't be great for another rider's smaller frame. But it will be true to say the smaller frame is much stiffer if the tubes are the same across the size range.
Geometry is generally compromised on road bikes in the smaller sizes but for an MTB there's little to no reason to need to compromise anything on a smaller frame apart from perhaps bar height (fork and wheels dictating it).
"requires the female specific variant"
Why?
Female specific geometry is just a marketing myth IME. A myth that usually results in bikes that are far too short reach etc.
Far better to get the unisex/men's version in the size that fits the rider's height.
What bike(s) you looking at?
besides giant/Liv, is anyone else doing womens specific geo now?
I thought it was all just contact points and paint colors.
I'm told Juliana bikes are just the same Santa Cruz frames one size smaller and different bar / grips. FWIW my girls on paper would be mens small frame but both prefer mediums, long in torso I think. It's a crazy mixed up world!
Impossible to say.
No offence but I wouldn't take any bike journo's opinion as gospel! Nor will there be huge differences between bikes with similar specs/geo.
Group test winners always used to be the brand that sent the journo to the nicest place to test ride their new range etc...
There was a interesting article in IM Bike Mag a few years ago about the three different approaches to women's bikes:
Frame designed from scratch, shorter top-tube, etc (eg Liv)
Standard frame, WSD contact points (eg Juliana, Specialized, Trek)
Unisex bikes in smaller sizes (eg Pivot)
I don't know if the details are still relevant, but I guess the general principles still apply.
@Ben Haworth
She has had women specific bikes in the past that have suited her better than the men's variant.
However, as noted above the Fury is unisex and the seat tube height may be an issue, and the Boardman 8.6 men's small may still be to big. Going down to the women's version the wheels go from 29 to 27.5, so not really the same bike.