[Closed] Commuter "Non Cyclists" W@nkers

there are indeed - but it is the individual situation...I've seen cars deliberately tailgate or squeeze a bike off the road for RLJ or equivalent - it's not nice...

how do you know that you've not just done it in front of one of those drivers???

If it wasn't for an alleyway i'd have been flattened by a car that nearly knocked my wife off her bike by cutting in front...I gave him the international w***** symbol and he went nuts and chased us along the road.

The real point is this - even on a 40 minute commute, if you get a gold run of green lights you'll only be say 5 minutes quicker than if you stop at all of them - so just stop!!!!

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.

I'm off out on my bike chasing cars now.

[img] [/img]

'I was thinking more about the effect on other people...I really don't think that RLJing on a bike is as serious as doing so in a car.'

but if your RLJ'ing causes an acciddent - for which you'd be at fault - the car / lorry / bus driver would also be at fault (in the eyes of the law) and have a possecution. If the collision caused your death, think about that impact on the driver and there family.

but if your RLJ'ing causes an acciddent - for which you'd be at fault - the car / lorry / bus driver would also be at fault (in the eyes of the law) and have a possecution. If the collision caused your death, think about that impact on the driver and there family.

I agree, but all things being equal, you have 1.5 tonnes of car vs 100kg of rider & bike.

Look at it this way: driving 1mph over the limit is an offence, but you will never be prosecuted for it. Yet it is possible that the extra 1mph is the difference between being able to avoid an accident, and not.

don't think that's a very similar analogy...

don't think that's a very similar analogy...

It wasn't an analogy as such...more a comment on people's perspective. Most people would think of breaking the limit by 1mph as not worthy of prosecution, yet when it comes to cyclists, minor misdemeanours should result in public hangings...

Is RLJ a minor misdemeanour though?

If a motor cyclist went throuigh at red cautiously?

All of the above leads me to believe...

......some but not all cyclists can be arrogant and inconsiderate to other road users.....

......some but not all pedestrians can be arrogant and inconsiderate to other road users.....

......some but not all drives can be arrogant and inconsiderate to other road users.....

bring any two of the above together and it creates a whole load of bollox......

opinions vary, get over it!!!

opinions vary, get over it!!!

Isnt that why forums exist? I.e to debate and get our opinions accross?

Is RLJ a minor misdemeanour though?

Sometimes - I don't think it's a binary issue. Even the government has recognised this with regard to pavement cycling.

In general yes unfortunately this one is populated by some particularly antagonistic cyber trolls

Passed the time for a bit, thanks all 🙂

Isn't that why forums exist? I.e to debate and get our opinions accross?

Yes, but the dismal drawback of doing this in typey format is that people polarise their own viewpoints to get a reaction and the whole argument moves away from mutual understanding, rather than towards it.

If you had all of us in a room with a Top Gear style "cool wall" of behaviour on the road, chances are we'd be in agreement about what's dickheaded and what isn't.

People are deliberately arguing from selected instances and ignoring the middle ground. Which is where we all should, and probably do belong.

people on bikes can be total arseholes. Don't let it wind you up.

True nedrapier, Oh and can this cool wall be not Top Gear style? I hate that programme 😉

Kevevs - Member
people on [s]bikes[/s] forums can be total arseholes. Don't let it wind you up.

wise words, hope you don't mind me paraphrasing.

Martin, 'fraid it does, at least until there's a Singletrack Cool Wall.

God. the horror...

God. the horror...

🙂 do you want a hug?

aw...

I'm trying to tread the "debate" route...hopefully a few folk will think twice when the red light appears...I'll happily have a chat with you at the stoppers if you get bored waiting along the embankment...

actually - I bet the fella with the 12-24 cassette is a STW that I chatted to next to battersea bridge yesterday...

"Courtesy goes both ways of course. The "I can, so I will" cycle militants really get my goat."

TBH I find people walking prams and especially double buggies on pavements or fat people especially two abreast on a pavement - not even a pedestrian zone- are discourteous. I cannot walk easily round them What should I do push past them ? ****ing "I can so I will "walkers
Obviously al road users [people] treating each other with respect is the solution but in the example cited the cyclist were doing something legal so I figure the courtesy onus is on the car.

monkeyboyjc

but if your RLJ'ing causes an acciddent - for which you'd be at fault - the car / lorry / bus driver would also be at fault (in the eyes of the law) and have a possecution.

What would they be prosecuted for? They certainly would not be at fault unless they had broken the traffic laws / highway code

Monday evening this week.

Went out for a road ride, heading towards Stackstead and Bacup towards Lee Quarry there are a series of fairly tight S-bends with double-white lines down the centre of the road. The lane width is actually easily wide enough for a vehicle to safely pass a single cyclist, especially as the S-bends force the vehicles to drive relatively slowly.
I hit the S-bends and found a line of traffic crawling along, obviously backed up from something. I came around the corner to see two mtb'ers side-by-side merrily chatting away and cycling at no more than 10mph (i know because i was behind them and looked at my speedo/computer). The cars behind couldn't get past because of the double white lines and oncoming traffic, yet with a little consideration they could have moved into single file and the traffic would have flowed freely with not impediment to themselves.

I managed to overtake, by signalling my intent to the driver behind me then accelerating past them, the cars couldn't obviously - at least til the S-bends finished.

Now, before you all start, i'm not a motorist - i don't drive and never have. I commute every day by bike and have been doing for all my working life. I see enough idiocy and needless aggression from motorists every day, but these two cyclists were either doing it deliberately "because they can" or they were blithely unaware of their surroundings.
No need for it, it is a slow road at that point so they were not 'riding defensively' they were just being rude/discourteous/ignorant to other road users.

@muddydwarf

You've not got the hang of this. drivers are supposed to give room, cross lanes and be generally sensitive to cyclists. But as it's not "illegal" the favour doesn't have to be returned.

I like to learn something new every day 😀

Muddy unless the road is very wide ie two cars wide each way then there is no difference to overtaking one or two bikes
[img] [/img]

You are not driving in accordance with the highway code if you sqeeze past inside the white lines

Oh don't get me wrong, i'm all for drivers being made aware that their innattention and/or dangerous driving can be lethal to cyclists and that they should also be made aware that cyclists have every legal right to be on the road.
I just happen to believe that with rights come responsibilities, and that we should all make allowances for each other in order to make things easier for each other.

So the cyclist has to be put at risk to let teh car driver past?

TJ,

the road in question is quite wide, and i ride it regularly. I've been passed on there lots of times quite safely and with the vehicle still inside the white lines. It's possible and practical, just not when people are riding two-up.
I'm all for doing that when appropriate - fast, straight roads, dual-carriageway etc. but on that section of road it was pointless, annoying and (i suspect) done deliberately to pee people off.

so the road is two cars wide teach way then? In which case you can overtake two bikes side by side.

No TJ,
the cyclists should 'sometimes' understand that not riding two-up (especially when on slow moving mtb's) is a better proposition at that particular point. It served no purpose other than to say "i can do this".

could you overtake a car then without going over the white line? If not there is not enough room to overtake a bike safely one abreast or two. See the bit from the highway code above

TJ I know the road and it is plenty wide enough to let cars past when you are single file ...just shows the dangers of letting MTB ers loose on the road near a trail centre IMHO. You could easily place a siglebike wide enough out say PP [ primary position] and them not get past legally. I would pull in a bit personally to let them past.
I learnt you cant teach gwj72 anything as he can selectively filter all information to just re affirm his view.

There is something missing from your passing bikes mathematical equation.
The distance between the two bikes! Think about it.... Makes a ****ing nonsense of your statement that it's as easy to pass 2 as 1 when they are riding 6 feet apart rather than 2 doesn't it? As does the width of the road and the car and for that matter how steady the cyclists are riding (I give more room to "swervers").

It's just not all black and white like you would like it to be. Sorry.

Once more,

Each lane on that road can easily and safely accomodate a vehicle and a cyclist side-by-side with enough room that should the cyclist extend their arm they would not touch the vehicle - ok?

Add in the width of another cyclist and there is not enough room for everyone - ok?

Just because the cyclists are allowed to ride two-up (although the HC does state that there are occasions when it is innapropriate) does not mean that particular section of road is the right one to do it on.

Conversely, had they been on road bikes and moving quicker (another 10mph say) they would have been fine, as they would then have been moving somewhere near the vehicular traffic speed.

The combination of the road, riding two-up and riding very slow caused a needless traffic snarl up when a little consideration would have allowed everyone to proceed peacefully.

TJ - you don't live in the real world do you. A REAL cyclist who actually knows the road (unlike you) has been happily past whilst riding single file countless times and feels safe in the situation. What's your problem?

BTW - I don't agree with your understanding of that particular rule/guidance. I would say that it implies that you should leave the same amount of space between your vehicle and the cyclist as you would between your vehicle and another motor vehicle - i.e. 2 or 3 feet. A courteous rider would ride close enough to the kerb in this situation so that the car could pass within the line whist maintaining that safe distance. I am more than happy with that amount of space whilst riding - are you not?

Could I recommend you might consider a move to Sark?

TJ [b]I[/b] know the road [b]a[/b]nd it is plenty wide enough to let cars past when you are single file ...just shows the dangers of letting [b]M[/b]TB ers loose on the ro[b]a[/b]d near a trail [b]c[/b]entre IMHO. Yo[b]u[/b] could easily place a siglebike wide enough out say PP [ primary position] and them [b]n[/b]ot get past legally. I would pull in a bit personally to let them pas[b]t[/b].
I learnt you cant teach gwj72 anything as he can selectively filter all information to just re affirm his view.

I must get these selective filters looked at.. 🙂

MDwarf you are correct but when you experience this you still need to respect them and ONLY overtake when/if it is safe to do so as per the Highway code. If you do it and clip them hot them it will be your fault especially where there is no overtaking. slow moving road users can annoy but you cannot get wound up and do something daft to get past them and think it is their fault.

TandemJeremy - Member

could you overtake a car then without going over the white line? If not there is not enough room to overtake a bike safely one abreast or two. See the bit from the highway code above

Do you interpret that rule to mean 'overtake a bike as if it were as wide as a car' ?

I must get these selective filters looked at..

JY - i don't drive, so i wouldn't be passing them anyway!

I did pass them on my road bike but there was plenty of room for me to do that, i was at least 4/5 ft from the outside rider as i passed him. Knew i was there as well.

2 or 3 feet clearance between a cycle and a passing car is not enough - nor is it enough when passing another car 🙄

You need to look at the other bits about passing vulnerable road users.

I cannot believe the attitude of so called cyclists on here who want cyclists to be pushed into the gutter so as the cars can push past in an unsafe manner.

There is something missing from your passing bikes mathematical equation.
The distance between the two bikes! Think about it.... Makes a ****ing nonsense of your statement that it's as easy to pass 2 as 1 when they are riding 6 feet apart rather than 2 doesn't it?

213
Motorcyclists and cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make.

Just because you are happy to ride in the gutter adn let cars squeeze past unsafely does not mean we all should.

I do let cars past when there is room but I contriol it - not them

I cannot believe the attitude of so called cyclists

We are not so called cyclists, we are cyclists. Just not militants clutching a rules book. I suspect I've done 5 times the road miles you will ever do. Get over yourself.

Convert - I doubt that. I have been cycling for 40 years and don't own a car.

Just because you cycle a lot does not mean you know it all. Te3h very fact you are prepared to go in the gutter and think a 2 ft clearance is sufficient shows your lack of knowledge

MD I know you have no car as i read your original post sorry for being unclear in my reply.

2 or 3 feet clearance between a cycle and a passing car is not enough - nor is it enough when passing another car

I cannot believe the attitude of so called cyclists on here who want cyclists to be pushed into the gutter so as the cars can push past in an unsafe manner.

I cannot believe the attitude of so called cyclists on here who want cyclists to be pushed into the gutter so as the cars can push past in an unsafe manner.

Drama queen. Who's pushing anyone into the gutter? Tssh.

No = because the correct road position for a single cyclist is further out from the kerb than the inside cyclist when riding two abreast

Oh I get it. So you just basically take as much of the road up as you can? If your short on numbers to really snarl things up - either move out or consider carrying some step ladders across your shoulders.

This is utter comedy. Are you the paramilitary wing of the CTC? When your interviewed on TV does an actor do you voice?

I didn't catch any cars on my bike earlier. But I'm off to tesco now in my 300bhp lump of metal. I hope those pesky "cyclists" are on their toes....

😀

10 years as a general rider - I don't know 3-4k a year
15 years as a sponsored roadie @ 10K training miles a year
10 years commuting 22miles each way - do the maths
22k miles of logged touring.

You?

Just because you waffle a lot of bollox on the internet a lot does not mean you know it all