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Not such a problem nowadays as the club has a strong junior section, but I’m still clear on the fact that I’m not interested in a group ride with kids, (under 18’s) unless they have a parent alongside them.
@Beagleboy, I remember those discussions at the time and sharing your concerns - we had enough immaturity on rides without adding to it with some kids tagging along 🙂
I still remember escorting a young Ben Jones off Dumyat with a broken Giant XTC in the middle of a thunderstorm. Thankfully his Deviates appear to be a good bit stronger...
You do though, you still haven’t figured out if this is a club ride or a group of friends. Is everyone on the ride signed up to the club via BC? If not, they aren’t on the deal
Is there a legal definition of what constitutes a club ride? If not, it's pretty irrelevant I would think. Personally I think it's just a bunch of adults arranging a ride amongnst themselves, but someone else in the group might say it's a club run....
You get infrastructure and advice around running a cycling club and the risks (both physical and legal) in leading groups which may or may not include children on the roads.
Well I don't / wouldn't. The cafe ownner might do but as there are no club rules at all and no committee etc and an optional membership scheme, it's all a moot point what BC make available.
Do you recall the paddleboarders in Wales a few months ago?
Having club insurance doesn't make you immune to prosecution for making dangerous decisions and endangering others - you'll still potentially go to jail. A BC membership card is not the same as a 'get of jail card'.
I’m a club ride leader. I was trained to take on this role and am indemnified under the club’s affiliation to BC. When I am leading a club ride, I plan the route and take responsibility for group management during the ride. With under 16s,they need to be accompanied by a parent or a responsible adult. 16 to 18 year old need written permission, but don’t need to be accompanied. The club has a formally nominated safeguarding officer. As soon as an activity moves from being an informal group riding together to a formal club event, the requirements change significantly.
Yes, that's what you would expect in a proper club - this 'club' is absolutely nothing like that!
Jeez, you aren't understanding this are you?
If there's a crash, and someone is injured and needs compensation, they will come looking for someone who might be liable. BC club liability cover will protect you from the cost of either successfully defending the action, or losing and having to pay out. Or being made homeless and bankrupt if you can't.
"It was a group of mates out for a ride, there was no one leading or responsible".
You planned it, you helped navigation on the ride, you start to make yourself look like a target to be sued.
I've led these type of informal rides on behalf of cycle clothing manufacturer. There's no way I wasn't liable if my negligence caused an accident. When I saw how proper clubs did it I got the hell out.
Classic STW thread.
"I'm after some advice"
"No, not that advice"
🙂
Jeez, you aren’t understanding this are you?
It would seem not. You try to help folk but what can you do? If he wants his (potential, but hopefully not of course) day speaking to the police or judge about the legal definition of “club ride” then I’m just going to leave him it
If there’s a crash, and someone is injured and needs compensation, they will come looking for someone who might be liable
Yes, they might but that doesn't automatically mean that they will be successful.
There’s no way I wasn’t liable if my negligence caused an accident.
Having BC membership also doesn't automatically mean you're absolved of responsibility. If you make a very bad decision and someone gets hurt - you're still (potentially) personally liable eg BC won't go for jail on your behalf if you push someone under a bus in the sprint for the 30mph sign.
BC club liability cover will protect you from the cost of either successfully defending the action, or losing and having to pay out.
Is that an assumption or a known fact? I did google BC's website about ride leadership and didn't find much of interest.
As a member and previously Ride Leader administrator for a large club with clear policies on this. A lot has been said but to add some points.
Re adults, I’m pretty sure it’s just tough shit – each adult is responsible for their own choices etc. Don’t like the route, don’t ride it.
However, as mentioned above if something bad did happen am I legally a ‘leader’? Is there even such a thing?
IMO not your fault if they crash, break their bike or get dropped and can’t navigate their way back home
On first glance I'd agree, but with the benefit of knowledge and training - I couldn't disagree more. Whether organised or not as soon as you start 'leading' whether that is formally recognised as the leader or not, there is a duty of care. And while you can say 'not my fault' it could take time / effort / even expense to prove that. The example case is of a self employed person that crashes on a twisty road, breaks an arm and can't work for 8 weeks. No problem; they knew the risks and they can claim on their income protection insurance. But then the insurance co starts asking whether the route was suitable? Had the leader made everyone aware of the hazards, did they show full duty of care? And decide that rather than pay out, they fancy chucking the liability at the club's liability insurance. But will BC pay out for legal services for such a loosely arranged 'affiliated club'?
It's not the fault of the injured party that it becomes a contested claim, may not even be a fault at all, could be just one of those things. But prove it? Even another ride following your published route, could end up with questions should the worst happen.
As for the under age riders. In our club it is either accompanied by a parent, or by a nominated other senior (email to club secretary and safeguarding officer from the parent/guardian). Then when he got to 16 and was too fast for parents, any ride they were on (even the fast everyone for themself) this nominated other had to chaperone them - so if the junior couldn't keep up, both he and the chaperone got dropped, not just the junior.
I've also been the welfare officer at my old cricket club, and had to deal with an allegation of inappropriate behaviour. Even with all out policies in place it caused a lot of work, thankfully very well supported by the county WO that we were affiliated to. Would hate for that to have been made without a proper set of policies and appropriate checking in place.
Sorry, don't shoot the messenger, but I wouldn't be leading under the circumstances you describe. Small risk, but potentially substantial consequences.
I'd contact BC and ask for their guidance on a set of club rules / policies, pretty sure they have a template.
In Ireland you would need police vetting, risk assessments and everyone to have a base level child safe guarding qualification.
Then an official in the club is the rep with legal consequences.
That's before you get to the actual qualifications to lead kids.
We have a rule of "with parents only" as the work required for without parents would make baby Jesus cry.
“I’m after some advice”
“No, not that advice”
There is a difference between advice and opinion though....
NB Some of the posts have been very insightful.
I've not read about the last third of this thread, but @footflaps I would tell you that the bloke who used to lead our club mountain bike rides was once sued by a member who was seriously injured at Llandegla. Because he was leading a ride for a BC affiliated group as its leader, (and member of the club) they indemnified the whole problem, but he still was personally sued and had to go to court, with all the stress and shit that went with that.
I see you are fairly relaxed about this, but if someone gets hurt on a 'club' ride and is minded to get some compo, you really might be on a sticky wicket. This is outside the question of kids and safeguarding which I think you've had good advice on already
To the point of 'just because you're with BC doesn't mean you can push someone under a bus in the sprint for the coffee stop'
Clearly not. And it wouldn't be in the RL guide or training. But if an accident 'just happened' if you were trained and riding according to published policies that you can then point to, it'd be a whole load easier and more comfortable a conversation in the aftermath.
Each Leader or organisation that regularly conducts
led rides should produce their own health and safety
and risk assessment policies taking the Guidelines for
Leading Rides (GFLR) into account. They should do this
in conjunction with any other specific requirements from
their own managers, organisations, providers, governors
or local authorities (eg rules on educational visits, staffing,
the use of minibuses). Policies should be in writing and
all people assisting with the leading activity must be fully
aware of them and know how to implement them
if necessary.
I’ve not read about the last third of this thread, but @footflaps I would tell you that the bloke who used to lead our club mountain bike rides was once sued by a member who was seriously injured at Llandegla. Because he was leading a ride for a BC affiliated group as its leader, (and member of the club) they indemnified the whole problem, but he still was personally sued and had to go to court, with all the stress and shit that went with that.
I see you are fairly relaxed about this, but if someone gets hurt on a ‘club’ ride and is minded to get some compo, you really might be on a sticky wicket. This is outside the question of kids and safeguarding which I think you’ve had good advice on already
I've been on rides where we have had people end up in an ambulance or I've phoned the wife to ferry someone to A&E and it's always just been 'one of those things'.
Other then the wife receiving a bunch of flowers we've not heard anything more from any of the incidents.
Obvs there is the small chance someone goes looking for compensation, but if you live your live avoiding very small risks you'd never leave the house. I really enjoy the group rides, so giving that up (or refusing to organise) would be a loss. I might however, bother to join if club affiliated BC membership does offer some protection. Although not sure how you find out what you've actually got. Or maybe BC membership (independant of the club). Needs looking into.
/blockquote>
That's MTB though which obviously is higher risk than just riding on public roads.
Policies should be in writing and all people assisting with the leading activity must be fully aware of them and know how to implement them if necessary.
The club has no policies, so I am 100% aware of them and how to implement them 😉
The link's in the MTB section from the address but the document does also cover Ride Leader 1 and 2 qualifications and the document is relevant as well to road rides. OK, this is specific for BC qualified ride leaders which is NOT a requirement to be a RL of an affiliated club, but the ethos is broadly the same.
It was to give an idea of the kind of things that a good RL needs to consider, not as a 'you must do this!!!' instruction
I think your simplest option would be to actually join the club. Then if you still want to be ride leader, you can tell any kids that want to join the ride to bugger off.
After that, anyone that's not part of your group, isn't part of your group. Although even then, I'd probably still feel responsible for them. I'm part sheepdog, and can't help but try to keep everyone together.
Aware you have gone light-hearted on this but that is exactly why you should be concerned...no policies is fine until someone sues and it becomes a discussion around interpretation and understanding...and having no policies makes it even easier for the court to award against you/club...
I’ve been on rides where we have had people end up in an ambulance or I’ve phoned the wife to ferry someone to A&E and it’s always just been ‘one of those things’.
You've been lucky so far, long may you remain so. Others (TiRed, I think) have had the worst of experiences.
Anyway - you wanted advice, there it is, make as much use of it as you want.
Having BC membership also doesn’t automatically mean you’re absolved of responsibility. If you make a very bad decision and someone gets hurt – you’re still (potentially) personally liable eg BC won’t go for jail on your behalf if you push someone under a bus in the sprint for the 30mph sign.
You are mixing up civil liability and criminal liability.
If you cause an accident through negligence then BC liability "may" cover you for costs and damages awarded against you. We keep telling you to check with the "club" and BC if it's affiliated.
I can't imagine a circumstance on a club ride where you were so negligent that it was criminal, but if you do get people pushed under buses on a sprint then you need to just not ride on the public highway. Ever.
If you cause an accident through negligence then BC liability “may” cover you for costs and damages awarded against you.
Yes 'may' not 100% guarenteed I would expect, so you may still find yourself on your own.
We keep telling you to check with the “club” and BC if it’s affiliated.
Pretty sure I've stated it claims to be in the 1st post, you can get a race license affiliated to it.
However given it has no committee, no rules, no processes and an absent owner with members and non members just organising rides themselves and possibly juniors joining (no idea how young people are they all look young to me), it's a more subtle scenario than "Does the club allow juniors to ride in the fast group?". The 'club' doesn't even know what groups exist, where they're going and who is in them and neither do some of the people on the rides.
So it would be a good question if BC would just say, sorry we're not covering that and walk away even if affiliated....
What is the name of the club? Easiest to do a search on BC and means we don't keep asking...
What is the name of the club? Easiest to do a search on BC and means we don’t keep asking…
Posted 15 seconds ago
Good suggestion, it is listed as 'Club Commercial'.
Activities: Competitive Time Trials, Recreational rides, Road racing, Sportives, Track racing
Suitable for: Adults (over 16), Female Cyclists, Male Cyclists, Intermediate riders (1-3 hrs), Advanced riders (rides 3hr+), Racing cyclists
You can be a member of a BC-affiliated club and not be an individual member of BC – plenty of people are if they don’t race, they don’t see the need to pay BC – and when they’re on club rides, they’re covered by the insurance the club has with BC. Assuming of course that the club is doing things properly.
I assumed that, apparently not. The BC club insurance only covers the leader against the liabilities they incur as a result of being leader. It doesn't give anyone else cover.
I don't know if it gives the leader more general 3rd party insurance.
If something bad happens regardless everyone will be up for a load of awkward questions regardless. As for being covered, does the club being BC affiliated make any real difference? It won’t absolve anyone of any legal duty of care, nor if you ride wrecklessly eg jump a red light – you’re still at fault.
Bear in mind it's not "people" that will make the decision to take the club or ride leader to court, it will be an insurance company. Be that a 3rd parties car insurance, or someone on the rides health or employment protection insurance (apparently it was this sort of claim that ultimately killed Swinkey as a free-for-all riding area). It'll be cold hearted business decisions made in corporate offices miles away, not your mate saying "not your fault" whilst swearing about his knocked out teeth.
However given it has no committee, no rules, no processes and an absent owner with members and non members just organising rides themselves and possibly juniors joining (no idea how young people are they all look young to me), it’s a more subtle scenario than “Does the club allow juniors to ride in the fast group?”. The ‘club’ doesn’t even know what groups exist, where they’re going and who is in them and neither do some of the people on the rides.
That sounds very much like the rides organised and led by Footflaps Fast Ride Group (c) have nothing to do with club commercial, and just happen to visit the same cafe by coincidence.
Cafe owner could easily deny all knowledge and point out that you're rides are nothing to do with him.
You can be a member of a BC-affiliated club and not be an individual member of BC – plenty of people are if they don’t race, they don’t see the need to pay BC – and when they’re on club rides, they’re covered by the insurance the club has with BC. Assuming of course that the club is doing things properly.
I assumed that, apparently not. The BC club insurance only covers the leader against the liabilities they incur as a result of being leader. It doesn’t give anyone else cover.
I don’t know if it gives the leader more general 3rd party insurance.
That's why I'm not a BC member (that and they used to SPAM me to death when I was a member due to needing a race license).
I assumed that, apparently not. The BC club insurance only covers the leader against the liabilities they incur as a result of being leader. It doesn’t give anyone else cover.
Do you have a reference for that?
Bear in mind it’s not “people” that will make the decision to take the club or ride leader to court, it will be an insurance company.
Although possibly not being insured makes you less worth suing as there's no big insurance co to pay up automatically.
I think it’s just a bunch of adults arranging a ride amongnst themselves
When you’re said there are over 100 people linked to this “club” albeit not riding at the same time, sounds a bit different to “mates”.
The fact there have been accidents so far with no repercussions doesn’t mean it will always be so.
If you’re planning routes but sometimes get dropped, is there someone to take over?
As has been mentioned above- think what the outcome was in the paddleboarding incident and even the recently reported case of the 2 teachers that took a group of school kids up a mountain unprepared.
Does mention the phrase club committee quite a bit!
and even the recently reported case of the 2 teachers that took a group of school kids up a mountain unprepared.
I am actually qualified to do that (winter and summer ML).
If you’re planning routes but sometimes get dropped, is there someone to take over?
That's hardly my problem! If they drop me and don't wait then they can find their own way to the cafe / home! If the ride leader had to be the strongest rider, there'd only be one person who could lead the fast group and he's always late to the start (the other week he solo TT'ed for 32 miles to catch us up just before the cafe stop).
Do you have a reference for that?
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/_clubinsurance/20150727-_clubinsurance-Insurance-for-clubs--How-does-it-work--0Under "What is not covered?"
Individual Club Members: Individual Club Members as opposed to club officials) are not covered unless they themselves are Ride, Race Silver or Race Gold members of British Cycling with personal liability insurance cover.
Under “What is not covered?”
Yes just been reading that. Quite interesting as we don't have a club committe directing anyone / anything.
I think taking out individual BC membership would be a good idea (much as I hate giving money to BC).
Do people just assume that because the club paid for BC membership they’re somehow covered / absolved of all responsibility? That seems equally naive to me?
How many people actually check exactly what their insurance (any insurance - house, car etc) actually covers?
"the insurance" is one of the major reasons why people join BC but very few actually other to check out what's covered. You can't charge through red lights, hold unlicensed races, take Youth riders out on the open road and just claim "you're insured" because you won't be.
The problem is that you've grown organically and what you can get away with as half a dozen mates on a WhatsApp group is not the same as when there are 80 people turning up at defined times for a defined ride on a published route. That's a club doing a club ride.
Yes, it's dull; yes, everyone just wants to ride their bikes; and yes, 99.5% of the time, everyone is cool, understands "the rules" and everyone gets home safe. But for the 0.5% of times where you end up standing next to an ambulance, you'll be glad of the background support and the club rules on having accessible contact info / knowing exactly who is on the ride and so on.
How many people actually check exactly what their insurance (any insurance – house, car etc) actually covers?
I do!
Which is why I laugh everytime someone on STW says you're not insured unless you've had your chimney swept by a Rospa Gold chimney sweep within the last 15 minutes and counter signed by twelve Jehovah witnesses etc.....
But for the 0.5% of times where you end up standing next to an ambulance, you’ll be glad of the background support and the club rules on having accessible contact info / knowing exactly who is on the ride and so on.
On the rare occasions where I have been stood next to an ambulance (not many in 40 odd years of cycling), no one has sued anyone or even mentioned it. NB Not that will always be the case, but so far all very amicable.
That’s hardly my problem! If they drop me and don’t wait
True, but in worst case scenario if something happens after this point and you’re deemed to be the “leader” as you planned the route etc could you be accused of not being in control therefore negligent?
It’s one thing applying common sense, but that goes out the window should it ever go legal.
Appearing to be a club and having under 18s involved with no safeguarding/DBS checking is a risk. What some people forget, safeguarding policies aren’t just to protect the kids, it to protect the adults from false accusations.
It’s not about being amicable. It’s already been pointed out that it will be some faceless corporate decision to come after you. Or it could be someone self-employed and has lost their income stream due to injury, forcing their hand to do what they can to get through (or their insurer coming to recoup losses, see the first point)
There's a phrase I use, meant jokingly when someone is about to do something that might have "consequences"...
"What would the coroner say?"
Having club insurance doesn’t make you immune to prosecution for making dangerous decisions and endangering others – you’ll still potentially go to jail. A BC membership card is not the same as a ‘get of jail card’.
Correct, if you commit a criminal offence expect to be prosecuted regardless of your affiliation, although a well-run ride, from a well-run club that's affiliated to BC is both less likely to break the law and perhaps less likely to be prosecuted if things go wrong than a shambles of a club with no clear leadership or supervision structure in place and where many of the people on the rides had no clear membership, possibly under 16s turn up despite the BC club affiliation saying not suitable for them etc. The prosecutor will seek out the controlling mind if something really has gone to shit, if they aren't sure if it was a club activity they'll pursue you personally too, if you can show you were just the minion then its less likely they'll worry about you when there's a club "president" sitting in the cafe who should have been overseeing what you were doing.
However, prosecution is far less likely than a compensation claim.
On the rare occasions where I have been stood next to an ambulance (not many in 40 odd years of cycling), no one has sued anyone or even mentioned it. NB Not that will always be the case, but so far all very amicable.
Yes, but as well as "times changing in that 40 yrs" how often was the injured party a total stranger to the ride leader? You admitted in your OP that you "get others who turn up occasionally" and "We had two random young people on the ride on Saturday, no one knew who they were"... they are the ones who might be most likely to sue! Also harder to say "it was just mates riding together" if you've no idea who they are. It's also likely that this sort of rider are the ones most likely to cause a group accident - what steps are you taking to make sure people understand the risks/dynamics/communication of riding in a bunch? That seems like the sort of thing I'd expect a reasonable ride leader to be assessing with unknown people so everyone gets the safest ride.
Is there a legal definition of what constitutes a club ride? If not, it’s pretty irrelevant I would think. Personally I think it’s just a bunch of adults arranging a ride amongnst themselves, but someone else in the group might say it’s a club run….
The court will decide if it was a "club activity" or "an independent activity that happened to include a lot of club members" if it ever comes to that. Sometimes its very clear - e.g. some official club publication (website, facebook page, newsletter, email) or minutes lists the events the club is running or in this case its on a notice board in the cafe calling it "Cafe Club Run". Other times it may be less clear, generally you should want it to be official as at least part of the liability will be shifted to someone else. The "unofficial club run" gave a number of club committees in a number of different sports palpitations during covid - if there was a breach of covid rules was the club liable. I saw some stuff that was at least dubious - like details of an unofficial event being sent on the members mailing list "because although this is not an official club event we thought you might be interested in it until the club is able to operate normally again". If you are not a member don't be surprised if either BC's insurers or the cafe owner (or his insurers) are suddenly saying, no this was not a club sanctioned event - its all on Footflaps own shoulders.
I think taking out individual BC membership would be a good idea (much as I hate giving money to BC).
I'd go further and say a sit down with the owner of the cafe and a serious chat about the club he's (not) running and how to make it better (= more customers with lower personal risk for him) would be in order and then getting it to actually meet the standard where BC will back you rather than say "no way was this shit show happening under one of our clubs". Alternatively, if nobody is actually using the club for its race license benefits is there UK Cycling (CTC) group affiliation option? IF the cafe owner isn't willing to embrace that I'd give serious consideration to stopping organising the rides or creating my own "group" (I notice CTC don't call them clubs) where there is some degree of policy that can be applied and you can be sure what risks are or aren't covered by whichever insurer/umbrella body you work with.
I came to mtb from road, but apart from a few attempts at sunday club runs*, never did the club thing. it was solo or with a couple of mates.
So I may be naive in asking, what exactly are we wanting footflaps to do?
- advertise the distance and elevation of the route? done
- check roads are not inherently a bad choice e.g. no stupid A road blasts? seemingly done with his meticulous route planning, and I'm guessing mostly roads he has ridden before at some point
- check the roads earlier that morning for any downed trees, potholes, ice? I'm guessing not done
- ride at the front for the entire loop? physically impossible for him and most club cyclists unless they have found a group much much weaker than they are.
"expaining to a judge" or indeed the average non-cyclist why travelling at 30mph or even faster going downhill while 6 inches from a stranger's wheel, wearing next to no protective gear, possibly while at a point of near exhaustion and staring at your own stem is "fun" and "totally normal and what we and others have been doing for decades" could be a challenge, regardless of BC membership status
Riding in a group on the road has always been an odd one - you are clearly ignoring the highway code in that you are not maintaining visibility and stopping distance. We choose to do this voluntarily for the benefits.
Does this somehow put the onus of responsibility for the group to the person at the front? the person picking the route? the "ride leader" who allowed everyone to participate in the ride?
Roadie forums are awash with the etiquette or otherwise of getting or giving a tow from a stranger, or solo'ers jumping onto a passing group ride.
*one poorly attended wet wintry day, I was on my cheapish genesis cyclocross/road/tourer type thing with early cable disc brakes. Descending at the front of the group, I reached the bottom of a hill, and came to what I thought was a gentle and controlled stop at a roundabout. The rim brake+carbon rimmed person behind me had other thoughts and with a terrified yelp proceeded onto the luckily empty roundabout.
Should I have been banned from the ride? or from being at the front? should he? should we have conducted a roll down brake test before setting off?
So I may be naive in asking, what exactly are we wanting footflaps to do?
Make sure that he has some sort of liability cover in case someone sues him if there's an accident on a ride he appears to be responsible for.
Everyone seems to be focusing on crashes within the group, who are less likely to make a claim accepting its a risk of the sport. Don't forget members of the public might be involved, and have a different attitude.
Make sure that he has some sort of liability cover in case someone sues him if there’s an accident on a ride he appears to be responsible for.
Everyone seems to be focusing on crashes within the group, who are less likely to make a claim accepting its a risk of the sport. Don’t forget members of the public might be involved, and have a different attitude.
Ok, so I guess what I'm asking with this:
Does this somehow put the onus of responsibility for the group to the person at the front? the person picking the route? the “ride leader” who allowed everyone to participate in the ride?
Is at what point and and in what way does the legal responsibilty for a rider-car or rider-pedestrian crash; flip to the person organising the ride, rather than the person in control of the bicycle in question?
Is at what point and and in what way does the legal responsibilty for a rider-car or rider-pedestrian crash; flip to the person organising the ride, rather than the person in control of the bicycle in question?
There's no easy answer but if a ride is being organised (there's an arranged start time and location, a published route and so on which it sounds like there is) then there's an onus on the Ride Leader to ensure that the route is to everyone's capabilities, people are briefed on protocols - what to do if you're dropped, basic etiquette and so on - group sizes and intended average speeds.
There's then some personal responsibility on every rider within the group to look out for themselves and for each other. There's no harm in dropping riders if the ride is advertised as such but if it's advertised as an inclusive social spin, then it's out of order to leave people by the wayside.
The problem in this instance is that the RL is posting a route and allowing anyone to turn up (he's admitted that on some of the rides he doesn't even know who some of the people are) and therefore the onus is very much on the RL if there's an incident because it would be very easy for a rider to claim they turned up expecting a ride they could cope with but actually got something where they were hanging on for grim death and in trying to keep up, chase back on etc, they hit a third party.
It could be argued either way but the more informal the arrangements are, the less the club is protected and the easier it is to point to flaws in club management that allowed such a group ride to happen.
Is at what point and and in what way does the legal responsibilty for a rider-car or rider-pedestrian crash; flip to the person organising the ride, rather than the person in control of the bicycle in question?
When they have been found to have been negligent in some way.
Realistically it's highly unlikely to occur. It only has to happen once for you to be left bankrupt and homeless.
When they have been found to have been negligent in some way.
but the scenario needs to be considered before that - OK they aren't (yet) responsible, but at the point that the driver, or the injured party, or as said previously their faceless insurance company's representative decides they *might* be liable.....the crap starts then.
Starting to consider your responsibilities at the point you are actually sued is already way too late. Not having properly considered 'What should I have done differently / better?' won't get you let off.
Back at the very start, Footflaps was asking advice about young un's turning up for the 'club' rides he'd organised, and was regarded as, the nominal leader. If it was me, I'd be wanting to know if these youths were old enough (18+) to be on the ride without a parent or designated adult. If they couldn't show proof, I'd be telling them to hoof it. However, I'd personally find it a bit awkward to stipulate ride rules, even if I'd organised the ride, when I wasn't actually a paid up club member, as is the case with Footflaps.
I still think the simplest remedy, if he's happy with the way the club's run at the moment, is for Footy to pay his membership. Once done, he's got a legitimate voice in the club, and if there's no current rules about under 18s joining the death or glory fast run, then he can make them.