[Closed] clipless vs flats

and he mostly didn't dab as he is still trying to protect his reconstructed knee.
It's a whatever you want answer you can pick from whatever pedal camp you want to say this is better that is better. People prefer different things, different things work for different people. One is not absolutely better.

I heard comments that the problem with Cairns and clips was that it was so muddy that the clips just got clogged up. Unclip at your own risk 🙂

Last race I did, I passed someone in a timed stage who'd had to stop and find a stick to poke mud out of his spds 😆 You see it all at the knobber end of competition. (I passed 2 people while riding my mud-scooter, right foot was on the ground more than on the pedal. Flat Pedalz For 200th Placez.)

Really not very convinced about "efficiency", other than stiff soles maybe. Usually it's more about peak short power, which is generally less efficient, pulling up lets you blow more energy for diminishing returns.

But what comes out over and over for the dh boys is that with SPDs you can pedal in places you couldn't on flats, and you can just have that moment's relaxation from time to time where flats wouldn't allow it- both big advantages but not ones I think I really see, that's bleeding edge stuff.

Frankly, mountain biking is fundamentally inefficient, we ride around on massive tyres, boingy suspension, bikes probably heavier and more capable than we need, baggy clothes, bags full of kit, gassing and braking, jumping when we should squash, taking the hard line because it's fun. As long as I'm stopping every 20 minutes to talk bollocks with my mates, no amount of SPD shoes are going to make me efficient 😉

Clipless (Times) for me

Except in deep snow. Flat pedals and wellies ftw. 🙂

I use flats on my MTB
- Not confident in technical stuff so like to dab (only ride XC type singletrack)
- Want to develop better technique
- Use it for cycling with the dog and pulling the kids’ trailer so want flats for that
- I reckon they look better…
- Have come off a few times and low speed with no major damage, wouldn’t have wanted to be clipped in for that
- Adjusted my foot position following my Jedi session so feels better. Do still get foot slippage though

I use SPD/flat combo pedals on my road bike
- SPDs for commuting (16 miles each way)
- when I’m tired on the ride home from work its nice to be able to concentrate on pulling up, different muscles worked and focuses the mind
- flat side for when my wife rides it (bike’s small for me so with seat at the bottom she just fits)
- flats for when I use it for local town use (bank, post office, groceries, barbers)

Another advantage that I always forget to mention for SPDs is that on some particularly technical terrain there might simply be no room to put a downward pedal stroke in, so being able to pull up might be the difference between making that awkward rock-step or not. I've been caught out a few times when doing technical climbs with flat pedals.

Clips for me all the way, Alps, DH, XC, Laggan Wolftrax black, local woods, bike packing and road. All on candys (I know road bike on mtb pedals is a rule breakage but I can only have so many shoes before overtaking Imelda Marcos).

I use flats occasionly on family rides and hire bikes when I'm away working, but don't like the unattached feeling. I don't think I particulaly pull up on clips, but they allow a full spin on the crank rather than the push-push stomping of flats.

My 10yr old daughter is on candys now too (her choice), she doesn't understand the "too scared of not getting unclipped" comments 😉

Andy

there might simply be no room to put a downward pedal stroke in,

Been backwards and forwards between clips and flats myself, rode DH for some time so was flats for ages, as my riding changed went to clips but never really gelled. I actually feel I commit more on flats as I am confident I can get my foot off if really needed, in clips I found I would unclip before I needed to to avoid a fall (this was an issue on tech rooty uphills more than anywhere else as a spun out rear tyre would often result in a low speed sideways collapse while clipped in).

I think flats have become more viable in recent years as pedals and shoes have got so much better, whilst clips have not really evolved (as have been pretty well sorted via Shimano for years).

Or did you mean that sometimes because of body position and gear selected you can't get the leverage to get a pedal stroke in with flats but the ability to pull too when clipped in will make it possible?

Yes, this is what I really meant. Thanks 🙂

SPDs for the local loop and familiar territory
Flats for the unknown

I switched to flats about 18 months ago, to try and improve my general riding and jumpy stuff technique but ended enjoying them more than SPD so still use them even when I'm not working on my technique.

When I did use SPD I did like them and got on fine but for whatever reason I am happy enough on my flats at the moment.

I'm not a racer (XC or DH) and not really that competitive when out with mates on a ride so that might be why I'm not too bothered about SPD pedals.

SPDS all the time for me

I can relax my feet, makes an amazing difference to my fatigue levels
I can move the back of the bike around better/ easier than on flats
I like being connected to the bike
I know my foot isn't going to slip off, spin the crank and have the pins try to bite my shin... 😆

I think for most of us, whichever gives the most confidence is the right pedal.

nickc - Member

I know my foot isn't going to slip off, spin the crank and have the pins try to bite my shin...

It really is very rare to lose your footing when riding. Now, getting stabbed by your pedals while pushing the bike round the garage, that's a fact of life.

Used flats for first 15 years of mtbing, changed to SPD a few years ago. Much prefer the SPDs.

Northwind, innit, once was enough, still got a dent in my shin 😆

I've never used clipless and never will. proper peddles all the way. I have no interest in small performance gains or whatever.

You Total Bunch of Mary's!
you are ALL completely wrong FFS!

For Semi-Hex-Cee, Dandy-core tow path bimbling I use two of these:

[img] [/img]

For Lard-core, Woodland Gnarl, Free-Mincing I fix my feet to a couple of these:

[img] [/img]

I ride like a Boss for 72 hours straight without dabbing, and then head to A&E...

stilltortoise - Member
Another advantage that I always forget to mention for SPDs is that on some particularly technical terrain there might simply be no room to put a downward pedal stroke in, so being able to pull up might be the difference between making that awkward rock-step or not. I've been caught out a few times when doing technical climbs with flat pedals.

Plus if there's no space, wouldn't you just back peddle a touch to create space? don't see how pulling up makes that any easier?

Northwind - Member
It really is very rare to lose your footing when riding. Now, getting stabbed by your pedals while pushing the bike round the garage, that's a fact of life.

There is a blog over on the tweeks cycles blog page about this very subject, worth a read due to the context of this thread.
http://www.tweekscycles.com/blog/cycle/product-news/mountain-bike-product-news/clipless-vs-flat-mountain-bike-pedals-great-debate/

seosamh77 I didn't explain myself very well but thankfully robinlaidlaw translated my post :- ) Basically, it's not about having space or not since, as you point out, if there is space to turn a pedal I can do so clipped in or not. However sometimes the combination of terrain and body position makes a pull on the rearward pedal considerably easier and more effective than a push on the front pedal, more commonly on technical steppy climbs. It may not be good technique, but it's a technique that has kept me moving forward with SPDs that isn't possible on flats.

I rode time atacs for years but am currently happy on my nano tech flats
Not because of any superior skills or science in fact clearly, power transfer is greater clipped in
So clipless are more efficient.
I ride my flats cos I used to be a low skilled albeit enthusiastic rider riding clip less.
After an enforced layoff of over 4 years I have found coming back to my bikes I am an even crappier
Rider on clip less and out of practice which whilst does produce many excellent mid ride exits from
The bike and some real comedy....did lead me to stick flats on, buy some 5 10s and ride.
Result is I occasionally miss having upstroke on long climbs but rarely snd now I don't fall off, ride with far far more
Confidence and therefore have loads of fun.
No current intention of removing flats, I like em!

SPDs on the rigid retro, flats on the Pitch. If you have trouble moving the bike around on flats but not on clips then it's poor technique at fault, not the pedals. Not saying either is better, mind, but having spent years on SPDs and only gone to flats a couple of years ago when I started riding modern FS, I'm in no hurry to go back.

Trying to learn flats after many years on spds... not a great succss so far but couple of things which seem to have helped 1) adjust saddle position bit more forward 2) haven't found sticky soled bike shoes which would fit my feet but 5.10 has also an approach shoe (Guide Tennies) with sticky rubber which fits nicely.

I ride clipped in. Tried flats last year but with an awful pedal/shoe combo. At the first round of the Irish Enduro a few weeks back I forgot my shoes and had to borrow flats and a pair of 5/10s. I was impressed by the grip level and I only had a few moments were my feet came away from the pedal. Managed jumping and tech stuff no problem. Still not sure if it's worth the £100+ upgrade away from clips.

This is what i was trying to highlight

[img] [/img]

I do this fine on flats but on clips i fail (maybe my cleat position needs moving but the angle isn't as good)

Flats for the unknown

Interesting. When I went to Afan a couple of years back, I flirted with the idea of using my flat pedals, but because I wasn't familiar with the place, and hadn't used my flats much, I used my SPDs because I wanted to concentrate on the trail rather than what my feet were doing on the pedals. More a reflection on what I'm used to, I suppose.

I do think I should try the flats a bit more often though, as I think it's beneficial to be able to switch at the drop of a hat.

it will come with practice Trick Disco, most people can achieve the "Curling one out on the back wheel" pose - I know you meant heel dropping too though. With any change you need to step back, slow down and concentrate on it. Sometimes going for a skills ride is the key, ride with a bunch of people who are slower than you/being social and just work on stuff.

If you have trouble moving the bike around on flats but not on clips then it's poor technique at fault, not the pedals.

or, put another way:

Under some circumstances it is useful to be able to pull up on the pedals. You won't be able to do this with flat pedals, so you will need to adopt a different technique 😉

If you have trouble moving the bike around on flats but not on clips then it's poor technique at fault, not the pedals.

or, put another way:

Under some circumstances it is useful to be able to pull up on the pedals. You won't be able to do this with flat pedals, so you will need to adopt a different technique

Under some circumstances it is useful to be able to pull up on the pedals. You won't be able to do this with flat pedals, so you will need to adopt a different technique

You think bunny-hopping is just magic 😉

You think bunny-hopping is just magic

😆 not at all. I can actual bunny-hop on flats no problem, although I've no claims to be great at it. I learnt long before the days of strapping my feet to pedals, although I'd struggle to explain the technique to anyone 🙂

[quote=trickydisco ]This is what i was trying to highlight

I do this fine on flats but on clips i fail (maybe my cleat position needs moving but the angle isn't as good)

I'd be more worried about those trees leaning over if I were you 😉

Used to use SPDs on my hardtails, including the odd race. On my full-suss AM machine using flats, which I prefer. But - combine flats with trainers and it spells disaster... Team up flats with decent, sticky, stiff soled shoes and I can pedal just as well as my SPD (devil pedal!) shod mates.

Did try SPDs on my AM machine once. Just once. Horrid!

But - ride what you prefer and feel most comfortable with, as that's the most important thing. 🙂

@stilltortoise

I learnt long before the days of strapping my feet to pedals, although I'd struggle to explain the technique to anyone

With feet flat on pedals, try and 'flick' your feet backwards and up towards your bum. Maybe point your toes towards the ground a little if you fnd you're slipping off. Concentrate on getting rear wheel off the ground first, then start practising hoisting the front wheel as well.

As learned back in 1981 on my Raleigh Jeep (with *very* curvy forks after multiple bunny hopping sessions...)

Have you ever ridden flats with 5.10s or always in skate shoes? I think there's a big difference!

yes chief! 1yr ish on shimanos (till they crumbled) and a couple of days on borrowed 510's cos i forgot to pack my biking shoes. not a big difference really. maybe for longer days as the stiffer soles are less tiring but even then i've done hols in teh lakes and the alps on regular skate shoes. As long as they are not teh cheapest nastiest flat shoes you can find you should be reet.

with flats people (including me!) get bogged down by the mechanical grip when its largely technique.

Must admit I'm surprised with the amount of replies..

I used to ride flats all the time, then I switched to time atacs after riding with a work mate.
Switching back to flats just feels weird now..guess it makes me feel I'm in less control of the bike over bumpy tech sections..