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True story,
Im out with a club mate yesterday who rocks up with a new 'Pinarello' frameset direct from China. Its all painted up as a Dogma, it looks great btw, for around £300 complete with all singing all dancing new Super Record groupset, the electronic one, circa £3k and a hand built 50mm crabon wheelset £1k, Most finishing kit, fancy saddle et al. In short a lot of money.
The guy is a self made man. not short of a bob or two. Why not buy a real Pinarello, are these grey imports really as good as the real thing?
I wanted to say something about it, but thought it inappropriate.
To blow all that folding on the ancillary bits but get a 'copy' of the frame?
Warranty?? Oh dear......
Indeed.
I don't think warranty would bother me a great deal on a £300 frame TBH
The Chinese carbon frames that I've seen and ridden are pretty good
Couldn't see myself buying a replica complete with decals though
Super record on a fake frame? Fur coat and no knickers...
Think they are closer to £500. My friend has just finished building his up to a similar spec. Personally I wouldn't spend that much on a frame
without the backing of a good warranty, had several frames replaced over the years so to me it is very important. That said I don't have any comment to make to my mate. Nobody is getting ripped off. Pinarello haven't lost a customer as he would never spend that amount of money on a real one. He's not the person to try and pass it off as a real one either.
Would like to try one of those, they look good! Id want it to say Chinarello Doogma or something though, wouldnt want a 'proper' fake.
Chinarello Dogpoo
Theres a pic of a painted 'Chinarello dogpoo' somewhere on line....
[url= 
]Here[/url]
Andyhilton - MemberChinarello Dogpoo
he he 😀
Or at least have Notarello as a decal. Im a snob.
. Nobody is getting ripped off. Pinarello haven't lost a customer as he would never spend that amount of money on a real one
Bit like fake Burberry init ! Only a matter of time before the amount of fakes devalue the pinarello brand.
are these grey imports really as good as the real thing?
Probably pretty close to the genuine ones, it's not really the materials you are paying for its the r&d.
Although you do need to take into account that not all carbon fiber is created equal
Are these grey imports really as good as the real thing?
Probably pretty close to the genuine ones, it's not really the materials you are paying for its the r&d.
Although you do need to take into account that not all carbon fiber is created equal
So, no then. Here's the scenario. Lets take Oakley Jawbones for instance. A cast is made that creates a passable copy, its making someone loads of money, its optically inferior and obviously a rip off but when it comes to a bike frame........,
If we accept that not all lay ups of composite are necessarily the same integrity, not that Im suggesting a Chinrello will collapse at the first sign of trouble, I wondered if anyone could tell definitely that a Chinarello was inferior to a Pinarello. The interweb would have you believe that they are built alongside each other.
I know of 3 chinarellos, first one broke the head tube of whilst riding along, second the rear wheel sat about 15mm out of line, the third one is still going!
They're all stickered as Dogma's but don't have the aero seat tube, they look more like a older Prince.
Most were Price copies, but are now stickered as Dogmas, as that's the 'in' model, some are Kuota Karma (?) copies that are still stickered as Dogmas!
Considering Dogmas are about the heaviest £3500 frame you can buy, prob not that hard to replicate without top quality material!
There's someone I follow on twitter who was asked to build one of these.
They ended up cutting it up with the owners consent as it was such a poorly built death trap.
On what grounds? Genuine question, like I say I've long been tempted and know several folk with them, with nary a bad word to say between them.
wwaswas - MemberThere's someone I follow on twitter who was asked to build one of these.
They ended up cutting it up with the owners consent as it was such a poorly built death trap.
Pics or it didnt happen. 🙂
I can't remember who it was, sorry. Might have a search tomorrow and see if I can find it.
Personally I wouldn't spend that much on a frame without the backing of a good warranty
I did, I won't touch a Kona now because the warranty doesn't stand up
Lets take Oakley Jawbones for instance. A cast is made that creates a passable copy, its making someone loads of money, its optically inferior and obviously a rip off
it probably makes them 10-15% of what it makes for Oakley
I bought some DX Jokely's, got Cilary Blue to make some prescription lenses for them and now have prescription riding glasses for <£50
The reputation for Yellow who import Pinarello's on warranty issues alledgedly isn't the best either
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ebay-carbon-frame-fork-road-bike ]Short ebay carbon frame thread.[/url]
Recent ones look like this:[img] 
[/img]
[url= http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/chinese-carbon-thread-ebay-direct-version-5-0-a-241785-241.html ]Slightly longer thread[/url]. There's similar ones on Weight Weenies, Cycling-forums, BikeRadar etc, all with thousands of happy punters and very few 'horror' stories. On par with the mainstream manufacturers frankly!
It's why I'm reasonably cynical of someone taking one look, deciding its a 'death trap' and destroying it. Particularly as you're not gonna see any of the voids that will cause it to fail. Look inside most carbon frames and they look rubbish!
Tweeted by @CycleSystemsAc think you'd need to contact them for specifics all i have is;
[i]what a waste of materials. This Chinarello frame so bad we had to chop it to avoid anyone using it![/i]
[i]customer bought in a 'chinerello' frame. Unbuilt able, check the bonding here... [/i]
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
:large[/img]
As mentioned on another thread, I've been happily riding mine for the last 4 months without any issue. Hoping I have the same success with the MTB.
Not totally sure what I'm looking at, a slightly shoddy paint job on the cable stop... 😕
If the owner let the shop cut that up he really does have far too much money!
That chopped up frame is a bit melodramatic IMO
Why chop it into so many pieces and then lay it out for a photo? 2 or 3 cuts would have done the same job
what a waste of materials. This Chinarello frame so bad we had to chop it to avoid anyone using it!customer bought in a 'chinerello' frame. Unbuilt able, check the bonding here...
They didn't have any other motive like sell the customer one of their own frames? If someone said to me I'll ahve to destroy your frame as we don't deem it fit (through what authority?) I'd tell them to take a hike.
As regards the DX Jawbones I believe that UV protection has been tested and they stand up to real Jawbones. Threads on here somewhere.
I've seen mainstream frames with small defects it doesn't necessarily mean it's a deathtrap.
njee20 - I'm sure if you spoke to them they'd elaborate, there may even be more on their twitter feed about it.
I'm not defending what they've done or trying to justify their actions or comment on the financial circumstances of the bikes owner.
There was a discussion about quality - I mentioned a recent tweet about it and have now dug out some details.
If you want one and have no worries then buy one, if you have any concerns then phone these people and ask for more details of their decision making process?
[i]They didn't have any other motive like sell the customer one of their own frames?[/i]
From their website they only seem to offer courses but I don't know any more than that;
[url= http://www.cycle-systems-academy.co.uk/ ]http://www.cycle-systems-academy.co.uk/[/url]
"Cheap, light, strong - choose one" - Keith Bontrager.
"Cheap, light, strong - choose one" - Keith Bontrager.
or two even 😉
"Cheap, light, strong - choose two" - Keith Bontrager.
FTFY.
Well they're not light, so...
There was a discussion about quality - I mentioned a recent tweet about it and have now dug out some details.If you want one and have no worries then buy one, if you have any concerns then phone these people and ask for more details of their decision making process?
No need to get so defensive, was genuinely wondering, from that photo I see some dodgy paint on the cable stop, I wondered if there was any more about why they felt the need to destroy the frame.
I'm all for cheap chinese carbon frames (I have one with 4000+ miles on it) but I'm not sure why someone would want a fake replica frame. You'd always be wondering if it was as good as the real thing and tbh Pinarello's arent very cool to start off with! Plus once everyone found out it was fake, you'd loose all your supposed cycling-cool points anyway.
Surely blank chinese frames are the ideal surface to create your own brand on and fool everyone into thinking you have the latest brand in handbuilt carbon development and start a new niche on STW 😉
One thing I do find a bit odd is the 'fixation' with Pinarello as the brand to replicate. Whilst I'm not naive enough to think these are [i]actually[/i] off the same production line it seems odd that it's never (or very rarely) Trek/Spesh/Giant/Cervelo/Scott/Colnago etc, despite them all doing lighter/more aero/more desirable(?) frames.
In the dark recesses of my mind, I seem to recall a De Rosa copy
Even less desirable!
One thing I do find a bit odd is the 'fixation' with Pinarello as the brand to replicate.
I guess it is because you can produce an obvious replica. Take most carbon frames and there isn't really that much to differentiate other than paint. Yes when you look at details you may find differences, but from a distance the dodgy stays do make a pinerello obvious.
Which begs the question of if you want a cheap frame buy one, but why buy a knock off
The Chinese will copy whatever is the latest thing that will make them money.
[url= http://www.cyclingyong.com/category-47-b0-ROAD+BIKE.html ]They already do copy quite a few different models.[/url]
For them to get the frame molds, they apparently pay off the security guards and borrow a mold for a few days to copy it, hence the reason the frames are basically identical to the genuine ones.
Dogmas were once painted up Prince frames so easy to spot due to their round seatpost, but they have got the Dogma molds and they now have the aero seatpost.
I read an article not long ago from someone who deals with genuine frame maker factorys and he stated that the actual cost of a frame to the like of Pinarello was around $50!