[Closed] cheating roadies again.... ?

I don't get this. Surely it's just pivoting around the handlebars as the rear wheel tries to roll down the slope?

And all this stuff about the cranks moving- Eh? They're not, are they?

EDIT
Got to agree with njee too:

there are so many absolutely glaring problems with it as a concept

It's one thing being prepared to believe riders might cheat. It's another to just accept any old guff.

Peppered steak slice please.

With extra clenbuterol? 😉

I don't get this. Surely it's just pivoting around the handlebars as the rear wheel tries to roll down the slope?

Yep, completely!

Thisisnotaspoon, yes, thanks numb nuts, the only difference being that a ball isn't mechanically driven, but thanks all the same for similarity, suppose I hoof the ball into the air and when it lands stop it dead, would it then Drive itself forward and pick up momentum ?

My argument is based on one thing, he comes OFF the bike, the wheel hits the deck, despite numerous attempts to convince me otherwise the sliding comes to halt, he unclips at which point the rear wheel looks to be planted on the deck ? No ?

AND, No one looks more surprised than him when his bike pootles off without him as he makes several attempts to reign it back in.

I know some of you hate the whole sport being brought into question however looking at it can you at least not think ?

UH, that looks odd, and I know you have all smelt it felt it and done it twice and it happens every weekend on box hill or the strines but in my retarded viewpoint it looks odd ?

Down, slide, unclip at which point he is pulling against the rotational force of the drive train as he unclips cranks DO NOT move yet a wheel that's static picks up momentum and drives the bike through 180 degrees.
At which point it hits Elvis on his bike, who has run some one over before BUT, again in my view as I'm looking at it, it made contact with the motor bike and still it didn't look like it was slowing on its axis,

The whole incident seemed to STOP and then drive on.

discoduck - Member

AND, No one looks more surprised than him when his bike pootles off without him as he makes several attempts to reign it back in.

Well surely that suggests there isn't a motor, 'cause if there was, he wouldn't be surprised that it was still going.

Occams razor init. I'd suggest the assumptions that you're basing your argument on are flawed.

It does look very suspect at first but then it is a steep banked corner and it got me to thinking about how many times I had laid my mountain bike down like that on a slope and it had rotated around the pedal that was in connection with the ground whether the wheel was in contact or not. The gathering momentum thing could just be gravity as the bike slides down the slope.

Who knows, I do enjoy a good conspiracy theory though.

More to the point, where can I buy one?

Adam, exactly that, it just looks out if sorts for a stationary bike to spin up and pivot, AND just to confuse ME* it puts down that much torque on a smooth shiny surface whilst propelling itself up the gradient, against the descent.

Eh? You'd think the bike wheeled itself 10 feet up the road. It pivots about a point dragging on the surface (the STI).

I don't get this. Surely it's [b][u]just pivoting[/u][/b] around the handlebars as the rear wheel tries to roll down the slope?

Yep, completely!

It's being driven round IMO and it doesn't look at all like he kicks it away to start it off. Also IMO, that driving is done by the spinning wheel as I can see no other credible means of doing it (crank not rotating AFAICS). It needs the slightly freak circumstance of the back wheel not touching the floor until after hesjedal is completely detached from it but I can live with that.

maxtorque - not that I really think there's a motor inside his bike, but for a hill climber I can see an argument that they might only need to get a break at a key point in the climb or be able to follow a break. So it might be an extra 200W for 30secs. Or a steady 50W for the last climb (15mins?).

There are plenty of bikes under the UCI weight limit, so this might be a good use of that available extra 🙂

Of course none of this means anything. Cervelo would have to be involved, the mechanics, etc, etc. No chance. A fast-running powerful motor is not silent, etc, etc. Just as likely to jam or cause drag the rest of the time.
But I think I could sort the battery side of things.

This was on display, fitted and working at Eurobike .. Battery and motor in a seatpost with a drive gear on the bb shaft..

[img][URL= http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/rickmeister/P1190447_zpseaf1d7bf.jp g" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/rickmeister/P1190447_zpseaf1d7bf.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL][/img]

I've just laid my racers out on the back patio (God, I miss my mother-in-law 😉 ) and tried this out. My bikes' back ends would resist rolling in that direction, as the orientation of the back wheel somehow acts against it

Obvs, my bikes may not be the size of his, though they are pretty big but I really don't believe that either would "swing" like that - pretty much on any believable gradient (let alone what looks a pretty tame slope to me)

rickmeister - yes, but the kit weighs 1.8kg and the battery is not included in the seat tube - it's in a seat pack.

Agreed. Could there be a race version ?

AlexSimon - Member
rickmeister - yes, but the kit weighs 1.8kg and the battery is not included in the seat tube - it's in a seat pack.

And Hejesdal's cranks don't move.

Firstly, why don't people stop chucking the word 'retard' around-it's just not nice.

Secondly, I'd suggest that with posts like the above, the thread isn't going to be open much longer!

My take on it is, yes at first sight it looks very odd. I'm no physics expert but I'll happily believe there explanation over that of the conspiracy theorists on the basis of Okham's Razor. Like I said, Hysedal is hardly setting the world alight is he! Blood doping is still so easy and comparatively cheap that there's very little chance of them cheating in this way.....the fact that Hysedal and Spartacus when accused both laughed it off rather than contacting lawyers and experts and coming up with a story about extreme dehydration or extreme steak consumption, which is the usual tatic with cheating allegations suggests that it really is one for the tin foil hat brigade!

Momentum... but feel free to keep insulting each other.

Should probably learn to spell imbecile as well.

EDIT - 100!

rickmeister - Member

Agreed. Could there be a race version ?

There could, but it still wouldn't explain this as the cranks don't move, and he was freewheeling when he crashed. If you believe it's a motor (I don't) then it's got to be hub driven.

There could, but it still wouldn't explain this as the cranks don't move, and he was freewheeling when he crashed. If you believe it's a motor (I don't) then it's got to be hub driven.

Plus whoever invented a motor & battery compact, light and efficient enough to be used like this you'd be too busy doing scrooge mcduck impersonations to bother about bike racing.

[img] [/img]

It's not 'elite poster' it's 'Big Hitter'.

Time to calm down I think. Or just use the 'report post' button

FWIW, as has been said a few times, it does look odd but the only electric motor devices that are actually available that could be hidden well enough drive the cranks. Since the cranks don't move, there's clearly no motor. Rear hub motors simply aren't available that wouldn't be obvious.

wow

Plus whoever invented a motor & battery compact, light and efficient enough to be used like this you'd be too busy doing scrooge mcduck impersonations to bother about bike racing.

Doesn't begin to explain why it'd be "on" while descending in a group though - I guess the shock of the fall could activate whatever switch was being used

but I don't believe it's motor driven

Wow discoduck your starting to loose it !!! Walk away now. The cranks arent moving, there is no motor ! A bit of conspiracy theory fun is one thing but you've totally lost the plot. 🙁

Lampre(?) 2009 TdF

[img] [/img]

Oh my God!

It's been going on longer than we first thought!

Gonna have to get some popcorn on my way home.

I've only skimmed the rest of the thread but I offer 2 observations that haven't yet been mentioned (i think)

Firstly there is a change of camera angle. Initially we watch a bike moving away from us along our line of site. This always reduces the apparent motion. By the end we are looking down the bike is moving across our field of vision (we are looking down on it), this view amplifies the apparent motion

the velocity of the camera is changing. Initially the camera is moving at the same speed as the bike. During the fall the bike brakes. I think there are moments where the bike is slowing as it slides but the bike is slowing faster

Oh and Finally lets say he has a motor with small boost of power for key moments. We are to believe that the key moment to us the power is down hill, slip streaming round a bend that is clearly at the traction limit.

Or are we saying the crash was caused by F1 style him getting on the power to early

Or are we saying the crash was caused by F1 style him getting on the power to early

What you "could" do is to get some special tyres made that have high power magnets, of alternating polarity, buried in the rubber of the tyre, and then wind a couple of coils in each chain stay. That would form a motor that was "invisible" and directly drive the rear wheel. Hide the battery and inverter in the seat/down tube, and some wireless torque sensors in the crank arms (to tell the motor when / how hard to drive) and bingo!

(well except for the fact that your rear tyre would get loads of metal debris stuck to it, and it would act like a giant eddy current brake when the battery was flat, but other than that it's a perfect idea.......... 😉

I don't believe it to be honest but it's quite fun to wonder 😀

"He's got a motor in his bike!" Hahahahahaha. You lot. You're funny. Unless you [b]really[/b] thought it was true. In which case, you need help.

I've looked at it lots of times now, and I still don't believe it.

No, not the bike silly, the people on this thread who really think there's a motor in the back wheel.

What you "could" do is to get some special tyres made that have high power magnets, of alternating polarity, buried in the rubber of the tyre, and then wind a couple of coils in each chain stay.
...

(well except for the fact that your rear tyre would get loads of metal debris stuck to it, and it would act like a giant eddy current brake when the battery was flat, but other than that it's a perfect idea..........

...and that it would make for an awfully inefficient motor - generally you want to have the gap between stator and rotor as small as possible.

BUT THE WHEEL IS SPINNING!!!

So one riders got a magic motor, and the others were too doped up to notice, who cares? They are all cheating roadies

So did you see his demo today

He picked up his bike and let the wheel spin

then he said "look if I turn the pedals it goes faster"

[URL= http://road.cc/content/news/129567-videos-ryder-hesjedal-reacts-mechanical-doping-claims ]Hesjedal reacts to mechanical doping claims[/url]

This:

BUT THE WHEEL IS SPINNING!!!

Combined with this :

Is clearly the answer to this thread :

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/can-we-have-a-sensible-discussion-about-race

This thread, and the way this story has even become a story shows you how much damage Armstrong et al have done to the sport...

I rather prefer to think it is a testimony to the gullibilty of a certain proportion of the population who have been given a platform on the internet to demonstrate their paranoia.

Ok, so it looks weird. But it's a crappy camera from a very odd angle with a wide lens. That's enough to make plenty of things look odd.

Clearly it's working properly today.

I just assumed that he kicked the saddle as he slid to a halt..

it certainly looks weird and I can totally see why anyone would question it. I've watched it several times and feel that just before he unclips the wheel ought to be all but stationary as it's dragging on the floor. At best it ought to be travelling at crash speed which I'd not expect to generate the kind of radial acceleration seen.

What could be the reason it looks so unnatural is the orientation of the whole bike. @ 7 seconds you can clearly see that the whole bike seems to be supported on both front and rear wheels rather than the handlebar, pedal and rear wheel you'd normally expect. I'm wondering if this combination and the slope combines to give it a weird look.

Make it stop...

http://instagram.com/

This guy definitely has an engine on his bike