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....It's worth buying 2 and swapping them regularly when I fit my new drivetrain! 🙂
I've usually just fitted an entire drivetrain (Cass, rings, chain) and run it until it's utterly borked. I reckon I get about 1000 miles from a cassette and chain and probably fit 2 new middle rings in that time.
Last time I tried a chain checker: I replaced the chain before it was allegedly worn too far, but the new one still bloody skipped! So that was a waste of money on a chain checker!
So this time I'm thinking of getting 2 chains and swapping them over regularly, which is supposed to lengthen drivetrain life.
However, I buy cheap, new, cassettes, rings and chains: The ones I'll be fitting have only cost me £50 for the lot (£15 Cass, £15 Chain, £20 for all 3 rings) so spending another £15 on a second chain will have to make the whole lot last an extra 30%-ish to make it worthwhile!
So I'm sceptical. So convince me! 🙂
Firstly, even though a new chain costs 30% of a drivetrain, you're still saving 70% on the cost of replacing the drivetrain, which you'd be doing if you weren't doubling up on chains.
Secondly it's coming into winter, so if you got 1000 miles out of a set in summer, it's not going to last anywhere near that distance in winter.
Firstly, even though a new chain costs 30% of a drivetrain, you're still saving 70% on the cost of replacing the drivetrain, which you'd be doing if you weren't doubling up on chains.
Sorry, run that by me again. I can't grasp it
As far as I can see, I'll still be replacing it, just at a later date, so the extra 30% has to equate to 30% more milage or it's a waste of money.
Secondly it's coming into winter, so if you got 1000 miles out of a set in summer, it's not going to last anywhere near that distance in winter.
Well, I replaced the whole lot about this time last year, and I have a SS for winter, so don't worry about that! 🙂
run 8 speed and 2 rings, the whole lot will be about 30% cheaper
chain - 7.50
cassette - 10
chainrings - 18
What chairings are £20 for 3?
Personally I can't see that you really can magic more life out of transmission in this way, albeit I've never tried it (!).
On the first change of chain, the new chain will wear faster on the slightly worn cassette, and the cassette must wear to some extent also, meaning it is more worn when the first chain is swapped back on.
I doubt anyone that does it does so under sufficiently controlled circumstances to credibly assert that it makes a difference.
I used to recon on about 50 rides through the year before changeing the chain and cassette, alternating chains probably keeps the shifing sweeter for longer, but I can stomach a new drivetrain once a year.
Met some guys the other day who actualy ran those £150 titanium chains! Their basis being they work as well as XTR and last 3x longer, so the actual cost of saving all that weight isn't actualy all that much.
i say this every thread - evidence of this?
I have used a brand new 9 speed crank on a seriously stretched 7 speed chain - way past 1% wear without issue.
I have used mismatched parts throughout the drive chain without issue [ apart from chain suck and that is worn rings] and get thousands of miles. I do replace chain at .75 % wear these days but think it is all BS to get us to buy more bits /replace entire drive train
500 miles per middle ring WTF are you doing to them?
Met some guys the other day who actualy ran those £150 titanium chains! Their basis being they work as well as XTR and last 3x longer, so the actual cost of saving all that weight isn't actualy all that much.
Do they work any better than the bargain basement chains? Or save any weight over them?
I always run the KMC gold chains for about £20 on CRC. They look bling, last ages and I haven't broken one to date (and I've tried loads). Ah, looks like they have gone up to 29.99...
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=25422
...have a shop around. Might be a sale somewhere.
Personally I can't see that you really can magic more life out of transmission in this way, albeit I've never tried it (!).
Me neither Al, but I though I'd ask whilst I was at it. 🙂 Not convinced so far....
500 miles per middle ring WTF are you doing to them?
Riding my bike. That's how long they last. 🙂 But at no more than £9 each, I'm not grumbling......
run 8 speed and 2 rings, the whole lot will be about 30% cheaper
But I'd have to buy new shifters. And you can't get decent 8sp any more. Have you seen how much 8sp XT shifters sell for on eBay? 😯
What chairings are £20 for 3?
Full set of Deore, brand new, that someone has replaced from new with something 'better'. I always get my rings like this. I pay £17-£22 a set for them. No more. 🙂 Same with the cassette. Some people are too vain/silly and will sell a perfectly good, brand new Deore cassette just to save a few grammes, rather than use it and replace when it's worn out.
On the first change of chain, the new chain will wear faster on the slightly worn cassette
Except that worn cassettes don't particularly tend to wear chains - that's not the mechanism by which chains wear.
I'd suggest that whilst PP might have changed the chain when the chain checker said, that wasn't actually soon enough. From what I've seen - and as mentioned later - chain checkers seem to recommend changing at 0.75% wear, whilst I change at 0.5% wear (using the ruler method - when 12 double links measure 12 1/16" that's 0.5% wear). I know if I go much beyond that the cassette will get worn. I've always just run a single chain and put new chains on at that much wear, though following a suggestion elsewhere I'm now planning on storing such "worn" chains and bringing them back out for reuse when the cassette is too worn to run well with a new chain (and then running them down to 1% wear).
I just run 'em until they skip, why replace "at 1% wear" if it's still working? Do you really measure that?
Do they work any better than the bargain basement chains? Or save any weight over them?
I always thought XTR worked better than deore even when fresh from the box, so I gyess these are as good as that at least. The weight was about half that of a steel chain (300g down to about 150g).
If my bike was closer to £3k than £300 I'd probably considder it, but it's not so I wont........
Chains used to last the life of the bike when they were encased in an oilbath chaincase.
Such is progress 🙂
PP slight hijack how much do 8spd XT shifters go for on ebay?...got some mint ones soon to be replaced with XT 7spd thumbies!
regards to the initial question I replace my chain at .75% and dont notice the new one wearing appreciably quicker...or have any skipping probs!
I just replace the whole lot - chainset, cassette and chain - about once a year. Tried shortcuts, it makes things worse.
Just keep the chain clean - wipe well after every ride. Use less lube than you think too and avoid GT85 or similar - attracts too much abrasive dirt.
I buy the cheapest sram/kmc chain i can find and run that till it no longer wants to shift.
Typically i'll run 20 quid cassettes, 8 quid chains, 8 quid steel rings.
12 months of riding is typical for my full sus which gets ridden on weekends and riding holidays.
I don't subscribe to the nonsense about weight, and shifting 'crispness' as the first bit of mud puts that out of the window anyway.
why replace "at 1% wear" if it's still working? Do you really measure that?
Because you get longer life out of expensive bits like cassette and chainrings. Yes, it's not difficult and doesn't take long. Though you need to replace at 0.5% wear as I mentioned before.
When I did much more riding than I do now, I used to run 3 chains on a cassette/rings. Rotated the chain once a week (3 or 4 rides).
Using this method the whole lot used to last about twice as long as running a chain/cassette/rings until dead. So I saved quite a chunk of cash. The extra 2 chains cost significantly less than new cassette/rings
i say this every thread - evidence of this?
I have used a brand new 9 speed crank on a seriously stretched 7 speed chain - way past 1% wear without issue.
I have used mismatched parts throughout the drive chain without issue [ apart from chain suck and that is worn rings] and get thousands of miles. I do replace chain at .75 % wear these days but think it is all BS to get us to buy more bits /replace entire drive train
On my commuter, I had the chain break on the way to work and stupidly threw it in the nearest bin. Although worn, it worked perfectly well before it broke.
I replaced the chain, and the new one was unusable until I also replaced the cassette. So yes, sometimes worn and unworn components won't work together, even if the worn component still works fine with other worn components. This seems to be more of an issue for cassettes than for chainrings.
I can also believe that even if they do mesh OK, a worn chain will wear a new sprocket faster than a new chain would, and vice versa.
I replace my chain once a year together with the cassette and the ring(s). I might buy Middleburn rings next time to see if they last longer.
Re: chain wear tools - a new XTR chain out of the box was pronounced stretched beyond 1% by such a tool. The said tool was given to a roadie who believed in such nonsense.
Except that worn cassettes don't particularly tend to wear chains - that's not the mechanism by which chains wear.
How so?
I'd say yes. I rotate 3. Since a good bit of the wear comes from chain too long for the tooth gap, you do get a longer period at each stage of "wear". I think it works. At the end you will be re-fitting chains which would otherwise skip all over on new gear, but which fit snugly on your worn stuff.
I am now on hub gear, and I do the same. Saves needing so much adjustment of the EBB. I only adjust EBB once every 3 chain swaps, and always fit the next shortest chain (hang them all together on a nail and choose the shortest), I rotate them about every ~200 miles. 3 chains (and 1 set of gear) are good for 3000 miles of daily surrey grit and no cleaning save the odd wipe when I lube (every day in winter).
I might buy Middleburn rings next time to see if they last longer.
Oh they certainly do. But do they last as long as the 3 Deores you can get for the same price?
I think I'll give 2 chains a shot. Gotta be worth a go! 🙂
PP - Ta. I'd always wondered what sort of person buys a second hand cassette or pays more than a tenner for a second hand tyre :lol:. To switch to 8 speed you'd only need to buy one shifter so simply go about it the same way as your genius chainring buying routine 😉
I have a decent stash of sram attack and XT 8 spd shifters (but I'm not dumb enough to "upgrade" so I won't be selling any anytime soon :P)
personally I couldn't be arsed rotating chains. I'd just run it all until it starts slipping under load and replace the lot.
[center]Do the sprockets wear because the chain stretches? (use a stronger chain)
Or
Does the chain stretch due to sprockets wearing? (use harder wearing sprockets)[/center]
my chains seem to wear out inversely proportional to how much riding I'm doing. I'm sure chains stretch just sat in the shed not being ridden 😕
individual chain link plates don't really stretch, the pivots wear causing more play and each link moves further making the overall length longer over time.
3 chains is the way to go (mainly because the cycle promotions one day sales do packs of 3 at bargain prices) - 1 on the bike 1 ready to go and 1 soaking in degreaser. on a rotation basis
use a powerlink and change the chain every time you clean the bike. Chainset lasts much much longer as it is a worn chain that wears the rings and cassette not the other way round
chain stretch is due to the bushings wearing rather than the links stretching
alsocorrect cleaning and lubing of chain is another way to extend the life of your chainset. Its the internal parts of the chain that need the lube most - best way to get oil to these parts is to thoroughly clean the chain and then spray with GT85/WD40 and leave to evaporate. wipe chain with a cloth and apply lube to each individual link. residue from GT85 'carries'lube into the chains internals.
some people call it OCD
I'd always wondered what sort of person buys a second hand cassette or pays more than a tenner for a second hand tyre :lol
Secondhand? Well yes, but UNUSED secondhand! I've got a drawer full of new, unused 'fashion castoffs' from other riders, all ready to go 😀
I've ordered 2 chains from Merlin.
I'll get back to you in a year or so with a ride report! 🙂
Keep it all as clean as possible seems to work for me. I remove, soak and lube the chain after every ride, and if I'm honest I'm pretty OCD-ish about getting the cassette clean as well.
I use one bike for everything, and so far (2 years) haven't worn out a middle XT ring, although I'm going to replace both outer and middle this winter at some point. I think in that time it's had 3 chains and a cassette (SRAM 951 chains and XT cassettes) I'm on my 4th chain and second cassette now.
The only reason for swapping out chains is for the convenience of being able to thoroughly clean and relube the one thats off the bike and to be able to do it more often.
If you don't clean them any more frequently than you would with a single chain, you'll notice little difference IMO.
For true convenience, you need three chains in rotation.
Chains do not stretch (perceivably) they wear.
Do the sprockets wear because the chain stretches? (use a stronger chain)
You do realise that chains wear, not stretch, and that stronger chains don't wear any less quickly.
How so?
You want me to explain the chain wear mechanism? Largely down to the pins/rollers wearing due to flexing of the chain and dirt. The chain doesn't flex any more with worn sprockets, and the load being carried by less teeth due to mismatch also makes little difference to the bits of chain which are wearing. In contrast the sprocket wear largely happens as the chain enters and leaves the sprocket - with a worn chain there is more load here as the load gets carried by less teeth, hence higher wear.
Ta for explaining that.
People replace chains?? I'm still using the sprocket and chain off my 2004 Stinky along with a 5 year old chainring 😳
not quite that bad but you cannot be wearing a 32 tooth chainring in 500 miles that is only a few mths riding again WTF do you do them as just riding is not enough. Even a granny will do more than 500 miles.
I reckon on at least 3000 miles probably more as I dont replace drivetrain each year. I am not ocd over a clean chain either
[i] I reckon I get about 1000 miles from a cassette and chain and probably fit 2 new middle rings in that time.[/i]
If an average ride is 25 miles and you do say 6 rides a month, that's a cassette every 6 months and a middle ring every 3 months... What are you cycling through? My middle ring has done 8 times that. And two pretty wet winters
not quite that bad but you cannot be wearing a 32 tooth chainring in 500 miles that is only a few mths riding again WTF do you do them as just riding is not enough. Even a granny will do more than 500 miles.
My granny rings last forever. I rarely use them at all. 🙂
Otherwise, everyone is different. I don't keep an exact log of how long stuff lasts, so maybe it's more than I thought, but 2 middle rings a year seems about right. I've certainly got through a drivetrain a year for a couple of years now though. Last winter I rode the geard bike right through and the local wet slop is pretty abrasive in Winter. And I'm no lightweight, and I'm not short of power either.
It's just the way it is. 🙂
Conversely, I've only ever snapped 2 chains in my entire life, which can't be bad... 🙂
If the OP or anyone else is interested I've got a stx rc 8spd shifter going for a song
Mail in profile if anyones interested
'Chains do not stretch (perceivably) they wear.'
It's just a matter of terminology, a worn chain is of course longer, longer = stretched in most peoples minds. I don't think anyone is actually trying to say (or even though about) each link being stretched.
As has been said, multiple chains make cleaning SO much easier, and therefore one might be less likely to put off drive train cleaning. Slap some cleaning agent on chain and gear, work in, leave, rinse, remove dirty chain, detail clean cassette, crankset, and mechs...install pre cleaned lubed and wiped chain. Work on other chain at your leisure.
Just a thought - If you rode single speed or with a hub gear, you wouldn't have all this faff. 🙂