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If there was grit in the chain, stuck in the oil, when you add solvent some of the grit would move further into the chain because there is nothing stopping it from being washed in, and some would come out. This would then be added to when you next ride and the process would repeat its self causing increased wear.
When you don’t clean the chain the grit gets stuck in the lube at the edge so can’t move in further unless it is forced in therefore less grit ends up deeper in the chain. My experience leads me to believe this happens as my chains last longer when I don’t add solvent.
use the putoline Al its relativly cheap and you get lots.
I am using homebrew wax (90 parrafin 10 beeswax, some ultra fine MoS2 and some gear oil). It's cheaper but when I come to buy more I'm going to get putoline instead.
If anyone's in Cambridge with putoline it would be interesting to compare the two.
Power wash, air line dry, then good ol' Putoline boil.
Candle wax works well on new chains/sprox, but not on worn chains. The wax is too hard & takes up the slack. So chain suck, jamming etc until chain is bedded in - 10 miles of Peaslake wet grit did it!
No answer the question TJ? I thought you were into re-use?
On topic, I have used Bilt Hamber Surfex HD mixed to 3-4 to 1 with water. Sprayed on, brushed, rinsed off. I do the whole bike with it, applying the solution directly to the drivetrain if really mucky, or from the brush if not too bad. For the rest of the bike I spray it one the brush and give the mucky bits (including tyres) a once over.
In combination with squirt lube it’s done 500km + between cleans and lubes in summer and looked after our bikes well. I washed our bikes after a muddy day in Wales today and the muck just rinsed off.
It’s biodegradable, non toxic, with no VOCs. And about £15 for 5L which does me for a couple of years. I also use it for house cleaning, car cleaning, and anything I can try it out on to be honest.
I find it's the chainring(s), cassette and jockey wheels that gather the crud, more so than the chain. How does the STW chaingang clean those?
slowoldman putoline - they all remain clean
Well to throw my method into the ring....
I use a Park Tool chain cleaner but I never use degreaser in it. When I wash the bike (after every ride at present) I use very hot water and fairy liquid in the chain cleaner/scrubber device and spin and change water and spin and change water until everything is clean. Let it dry fully (preferably indoors) and apply lube (Boeshield T-9 in my case)
Has worked well for me and chains last well as do cassettes.
I got the hot soapy water method from the KMC website who say never use degreaser
I'm so easily swayed, now I like petercook80's method - I mean, if that's what the manufacturer recommends you're not going to go far wrong.
Do you have a link @petercook80 ? I had a look on the website but I couldn't see it. Cheers.
Interesting using a detergent in the cleaner rather than de-greaser. It might mitigate the problems I experienced. Do you do the twist test?
Just waiting for someone to suggest using molten Putoline in a chain scrubber.
They have changed their website since I found it some years ago but I kept a copy and have pasted the bit on cleaning below. I just did the extra step of putting hot soapy water into the chain cleaner/scrubber. The last two points are quite relevant to this topic. (I have the whole page this was taken from as a PDF but dont know if I can post that here ?? )
Cleaning
Clean yourchain after every ride, especially after riding in the wet.
Always use a piece of dry cloth to clean the chain.Do not forget the sprockets, front changer and derailleur pulleys.
To remove mud or sand, use the bristle brush (which comes with every 120ml packing of KMC’s chain lube Pro), use light soapy warm water, if necessary.
Do not use acidic or alkali based detergents (such as rust cleaners), these can damage the chain and may cause breakage.
Do not dip yourchain in (aggressive) degreasers - they remove the remaining grease from the chain’s bearings, and may cause cracks. They are also bad for our environment.
If the chain is really dirty and difficult to clean, besides using a brush for the inside, try putting some solvent on a cloth and use it to clean the chain’s exterior.
Try to avoid a so-called ‘chain washing machine’ in combination with solvent. This will instantly ruin yourchain.
Some lubricant brands advise you to completely degrease the chain, KMC does not recommend this.
Interesting using a detergent in the cleaner rather than de-greaser. It might mitigate the problems I experienced. Do you do the twist test?
That's what we use on the hire bikes where appearances are often important 😉 We don't do the twist test. I'm not sure you'd get enough twist to notice without removing the chain though.
Removing your chain to clean it, then refitting it is surely something for which life is too short, you f***ing nutters!
JP
Just wipe it with a rag and stick some lube on.
Also works for chains.
The twist test works with the chain on the bike. Try it next time you come back from a ride.
Well that was all pretty inconclusive apart from @petercook80 😀
Maybe I’ll stick to fairy liquid and a scrubbing brush when it needs more than a quick wipe.
Interesting that KMC say not to totally degrease, I do do that when it’s really mucky.
@phil5556 I think from my research the problem is we think a chain is dirty on the inside because its dirty on the outside and we generally don't realise where the important contact points that need lubricant actually are.
Also chain cleaning and lubrication is one of the biggest cans of worms to open in cycling 🙂 I wouldn't worry about it that much. Changing the chain often, before it gets to worn, is far more important in my view in prolonging the life of the cassette and chain ring. Get a good chain checker and change as soon as it indicates it needs doing. Chains are a relatively short lived 'consumable' component.
Other than that just keep things generally cleaned and lubricated. Over cleaning with degreasers causes more harm than good I feel.
I know it was from days ago but:
That is literally what happened when I used to use one. Run it through the machine, then take it out and twist it – I heard loads of grit in it
I wouldn't take that as proof of a few laps on a chain-machine washing in a load of dirt - just removing the lube from a suspension of dirt in lube would achieve that result and seems alot more plausible to me.
Me? Putoline, maybe lighter waxy lube on the road bike that mostly gets dry rides but once I run out of that lube I think I'm deep-frying all the way
I do like to rub the chain over with a rag & degreaser but I'm not convinced it actually improves anything except shinyness
petyercook - a properly lubed chain will last many thousands of miles - mine do.
Petercook is right. Chain cleaner filled with water and washing up liquid, run it round until clean. Chuck some lube on once it's dry. I'm sure there are slightly better putoline/'twist' methods but it's cold outside and there's beer in the fridge.
petyercook – a properly lubed chain will last many thousands of miles – mine do.
Yes they can though in full on winter mountain bike conditions with sandy soil type I dont think you could - but the term I used was 'relatively short lived' which they are...
Chain cleaner filled with water and washing up liquid, run it round until clean. Chuck some lube on once it’s dry. I’m sure there are slightly better putoline/’twist’ methods but it’s cold outside and there’s beer in the fridge.
Wot you talking bout? I am already drinking my beer after I dumped it in the wax before you even got done filling your chain cleaner with solution. It might take a few minutes to melt and so on, but in terms of actual human input time it is very hard to beat.
Changing the chain often, before it gets to worn, is far more important in my view in prolonging the life of the cassette and chain ring.
Yeah of course, but if you can look after the chain well then you have to change it less often, which saves money, and makes it easier to catch before it does ruin your cassette.
I’m sure there are slightly better putoline/’twist’ methods
Twisting is a test to see if it's actually clean or not.
And the point about Putoline is precisely that - to save time, because you only have to clean or lube 1 time in 10 or 20. The rest of the time you just wheel it straight back in the shed (hosing optional) and your chain still lasts much longer, so you save money and time.
I'm not anal about cleanliness, my entire cleaning regime is intended to save as much time as possible whilst still having a clean and lubed drivetrain.
Yeah of course, but if you can look after the chain well then you have to change it less often, which saves money, and makes it easier to catch before it does ruin your cassette.
Couldn't agree more, I wasn't suggesting not looking after the chain and I refer you to my earlier post (in this topic) on my method - which this time of year I do after every ride.
What I was trying to say was dont skimp on changing the chain, get a good chain checker and change as soon as it indicates it needs doing. A worn out chain causes more damage to the rest of the drive train than a chain that hasn't been spotlessly cleaned [and NEVER use degreaser]
Wot you talking bout? I am already drinking my beer after I dumped it in the wax before you even got done filling your chain cleaner with solution.
Chain cleaner and hot soapy water takes a few minutes and is part of the after ride bike wash - I dont think either method takes very long. However if you use a Shimano chain with the rivet pin connector you cant remove the chain easily so on the bike methods are the only way to go - (also most 12 speed quick links seem to be single use only as are a few 11 speed ones so that is also a consideration)
No right or wrong method really, it's a case of doing what works for you..
Just tried your method. It couldn't have been easier, and the chain seems cleaner than I've ever got before. Just waiting for it to dry and it's on with the T-9. I used to use a degreaser in the chain-cleaner, but this seems better.
Thanks for this.
I've been using T-9 for 6 months or so. It's good - easy to apply, leave overnight, then wipe in the morning. It doesn't seem to attract much dirt, even in the vile weather we've been having recently.