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What gains are you looking forn and how quickly?
From what I've read, benefits from a training session take 6+ weeks, this thread is a month old.
I'd espect to wait months to notice/measure a difference. Fit/fast people have been training for years usually.
A further thought, mix it up. Cycling is very easy to do easily, spinning on the flat, freewheeling down the hills, not pushing on the ups, and it can take a real thought to put some effort in to. Running however is hard...
What got me "fit" is commuting twice per week (15 miles each way, 45 minutes or so), running 3 times per week (2 lunch 5k's at tempo with intervals thrown in), 1 long weekend run, distance and pace depend on what I'm training for but even if it's just 5k it'll be fast and hard) and 1 other bike based activity on the weekend (again, this depends on what I'm training for, sometime it'll be a 30 minute Zwift race at threshold, sometimes a 100 miler). I also try and do 1 gentle gym session per week focusing on core and stretching, normally on a Friday to prepare for the heavy weekend. The commutes are basically rest days unless I particularly want to push it, I can do the commute and barely get my heart rate out of zone 2.
This means that, unless I'm tapering for an event, I'm pretty constantly fatigued according to Strava. And that's fine, as it means in 2 years I've dropped 2.5 stone, got my resting heart rate below 50 and generally am fitter than I've ever been.
Eat enough, and eat the right stuff. You don't have to go full wholefoods maniac as someone suggested ( 🙂 ) but less sugary stuff and eat when you're hungry.
It does sound like you're going flat out, too, which will take some working up to if you want to do it 3 times a week.
If you've been taking everyone's advice about long slow rides in Z2...
...post your diet. A typical couple of days diet. Be honest.
I was a bit fitter than you (but not fit fit, just like long rides!) but whenever I went out on an epic then got the train to work the next day would get ill. Diet OK, better than a lot but with too much sugar. Spent a large part of three years with re occuring coughing/cold. Took an online blood test (Thrive). Yes could have gone to GP but why stretch the NHS for the sake of £30. Came back with super low vit D, despite spending much time as possible outside.
Started on the suppliments and now been two years without any major bug. Fight them off before they progress from 'run down' including my usual xmas in bed with flu that had become a yearly feature.
So perhaps go and get some bloods done. Or do them online if you don't fancy waiting at the GPs and like emailed graphs you dont understand.
had bloods done. all sorts but wont dwell on that....
The diet thing is a massive issue. Part of it is because i feel as though i need lots of sugar to do almost anything. If im going out on a ride its easy for me to eat a full packet of jelly babies for example and i can have a couple of choc bars a day. (and thats me cut down, it used to be 3+) if i dont im literally shaking by the time its tea!
Im just going to stick at it i think then. 🙂 feeling much better than before by taking it a bit easier (although ive not been out as much tbh)
The diet thing is a massive issue. Part of it is because i feel as though i need lots of sugar to do almost anything. If im going out on a ride its easy for me to eat a full packet of jelly babies for example and i can have a couple of choc bars a day. (and thats me cut down, it used to be 3+) if i dont im literally shaking by the time its tea!
Have you had a HbA1c test for diabetes? Because that's a f*** load of sugar for an 'easy ride' let alone a normal day. It's not unusual for me to demolish a packet of jelly babies on a ride if I'm bonking or sharing them out sociably, but it's not routine. My commute is 25miles/1h50 on the singlespeed hardtail so I'm probably threshold up the hills and coasting down them and I can do that on a normal diet. I might have few more biscuits, maybe a yogurt and occasionally a second lunch late afternoon, but we're talking 500-600 'good' calories (chickpea dall is a favourite late lunch) and 300-500 'bad' calories (yogurt, biscuits) on a bad day.
If you've not had the test then it may be worth doing before you start exercising you might be able to reverse the diabetes, but it would still be worth knowing you have an underlying condition in case you ever have a hypo.
had it checked years ago.
If you're serious about this and 3x 15 mile rides wear you out, consider starting from scratch. You need a base to work from. "To go fast, first you must slow down". Do 3 months of longer zone 2-only rides of 2-4 hours. Then start adding 1 short hard ride 1x a week for blocks of perhaps 3 out of 4 weeks. Build from there, read Joe Friels blog on base and build phases. It does take longer but fitness gained this way tends to be retained longer (as does strength vs pure cardio fitness, it seems)
Also read a bit on fasted rides, mix that with the z2 stuff 1x a week and you'll eventually lose that sugar dependency.
As @chevychase said:
…post your diet. A typical couple of days diet. Be honest.
I feel like you might be going wrong here.
Another thought: how many hours of sleep do you get? A lot of people don’t get enough.
This podcast about sleep is quite interesting. Top athletes are getting 11-12 hours a night.
https://drchatterjee.com/episode-26-sleep-matthew-walker-part-1/
Also read a bit on fasted rides, mix that with the z2 stuff 1x a week and you’ll eventually lose that sugar dependency.
Yes, this. I used to rely on jelly babies for my 23 mile commute each way. After many early morning TrainerRoad sessions that were fasted, I no longer crave the sugar I used to. Infact, it makes me feel worse.
Proper 'whole food' is all I need to fuel long rides.
Top athletes are getting 11-12 hours a night.
Even ignoring the fact that i have a job and it would mean i'd have to go to bed at 6pm to manage 12 hours.... I am physically unable to sleep that long. How do people sleep for longer ?
I can#t honestly recall the last time i slept past 7am, even on holiday etc.
i long for the day i get a full 8 hours sleep. im quite restless.
For a while I've been getting no more than 6/6.5hrs sleep a night and it is definitely impacting recovery and general motivation & well being. Last couple of weeks I've been able to get a couple of commutes on top of my usual Trail rides and lunchtime runs and I've really felt it in my thighs of late. I'm realising that resting isnt just not riding or running for a day or two.
Even ignoring the fact that i have a job and it would mean i’d have to go to bed at 6pm to manage 12 hours…. I am physically unable to sleep that long. How do people sleep for longer ?
I can#t honestly recall the last time i slept past 7am, even on holiday etc.
More training = more tired = more sleep?
They probably break it up a it too, out all morning on a training ride, lunch, siesta, dinner, then get 8 hours sleep rather than trying to go to bed at 6pm.
The diet thing is a massive issue. Part of it is because i feel as though i need lots of sugar to do almost anything. If im going out on a ride its easy for me to eat a full packet of jelly babies for example and i can have a couple of choc bars a day. (and thats me cut down, it used to be 3+) if i dont im literally shaking by the time its tea
OK, if you're sure you're not diabetic, reduce the sugars, eat something a bit slower release instead (Something with carbs with some fibre, or mainly fat or protein. But no sugar). The shaking will be because you're getting sugar spike, insulin spike and then low blood sugar, not because you need the sugar. This is why sugary stuff gets you fat - you have to keep at it.
I would mention this to a doc just to be on the safe side though.
Yer diet is shite. Period. I noticed by a) the sugar thing and b) you seem reluctant to post what you eat, which ain't a good sign.
I did Keto (<20g carb/day) from Jan until August this year. Lost 2 stone and went from needing to fuel rides a lot to being able to do 10+ hours on a few litres of water and nothing else (your body has loads of fuel, it's called your fat stores). Lacked the top 15÷ of speed, but other than that performance was great.
First month was tough but after that a doddle. Meat, fish and non-starchy veg. Nothing else. Ever. No cheat days. Not one.
After the first month it was the easiest thing I ever did. Never felt hungry as body fat=food.
Have been reintroducing small amounts of carbs (beans, lentils) and I've got that 15÷ back. But now I'm noticing I get hungry between mealtimes again. With chocolates/cakes/all sorts of shite around you all day that's no fun - so I may go back keto again to make life easier.
Fuelling yourself with sugar, and shit sugar from jelly babies and chocolates, is a recipe for illness. That's where you need to look.
There are some dietary evangelists on here, so I feel compelled to point out that a balanced and not-too-much-of-it diet which includes carbohydrates is just fine and remains the recommended approach of that there government’s advisors.
Which is not to say that a no-carb diet wouldn’t.work, and ultra distance athletes do seem to get results with it. It may make the “not-too-much-of-it” bit easier. But, the long-term health effects are not known yet, so there is a risk there.
But, the long-term health effects are not known yet, so there is a risk there.
Maybe (it would be unfair to make the 'evangelists' prove a negative). But then a lot of the 'evangelists' reason for going low carb / slow carb in the first place is there is evidence that carbs do have negative effects. No carbs would have to be pretty bad to be worse than the average western diet, the average brit is now "overweight".
Personally I read the iDave stuff and the 4HB book, and then applied them to my diet with a dose of realism. So I cut out anything with simple carbs except for treats (crumble to follow sunday roast) and don't have mid week deserts. I eat less fruit and more veg. I don't have cereal anymore, but do have porridge as an option.I don't fill my plate with large jacket potatoes, mountains of mash, or massive portions of rice and pasta despite them being 'healthy', instead I have smaller portions with the added bonus that chips aren't on the bad list anymore! Add more beans/pulses to my diet where possible.
TBH going full iDave/4HB would be pretty easy if you're single or your OH was keen, the problem is that in reality we have to cook something that everyone will eat, and some people still want apple crumble for pudding.
I didn't lose much weight because it wasn't really following strict diet, but do get a lot less hungry, and don't feel the need to eat absolutely enormous bowls of cereal in the morning (I was a 4 shredded wheat guy) to stave of mid morning hunger.
Pre-diabetic quite possibly.
I'm about a month into my own training/diet plan and it seems to be going better than previous attempts.
Unlike the OP while I was relatively susceptible to general fatigue after being active, my resistance to colds has generally been pretty good for a good few years now, I seem able to ride out sniffles that bring everyone around me down. But yep definitely had too much sugar and carbohydrate in diet...
The main thing that's helping is that my missus is in the middle of (another) healthy eating/slimming world kick the amount of crap in the house has gone down dramatically, and the standard of meals has improved, fewer carbs, more veg, basically its generally healthier.
The "training" is simply a rolling 2 week plan of riding mostly Z1 - Z2 avg HR. The bit that works best for me is that it's done simply by time rather than distance, before I was getting too caught up with idea that rides had to be of a minimum distance to be of value I now realise that just about any time spent on a bike (or being active in general) has value...
The bit I've struggling with is the time the plan requires at weekends, I don't seem to be able to rustle up 6 or so spare hours in between family commitments at the moment... <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> </span>
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">I've dropped 2.5kg in 4 weeks and seem to be maintaining my general performance on the bike, the intermediate goal is to be another couple of kg lighter in time for a cycling trip to tenerife in early November... </span>
Having discussed it with a work mate who trains people on the side (mostly for distance running), I'm thinking of mixing things up with the odd bit of running/circuits and some resistance stuff...
But yeah just crack on, work up a plan, give it a try and don't be afraid to a adjust it, very few things in life are right first time...
yup i agree with folks that my diet is rubbish. Well the main meals are spot on but in between i cant go for an hour without a sugary snack. i did do well years ago when i took a tablet called dexaprine but then people started dying on them so i stopped.
diet for example.
7am
coffee
honey on toast
coffee
coffee
biscuit x3
coffee
10am
coffee
coffee
coffee
biscuitx3
coffee
biscuit x3
12:30
soup (fish and chips one a week)
1:30
coffee
coffee
choc
coffee
coffee
4pm
choc
choc
coffee
biscuit
dinner (meat + veg)
bed at 10
i long for the day i get a full 8 hours sleep. im quite restless.
No idea why?
coffee
coffee
coffee
I gave up caffeine due to cold hands (it worked) i'm now weened back on as i found even one coffee would keep me awake for hours. now have 3-4 a day no more otherwise I fight sleep till the early hours.
Lot of stimulants.
Not alot of calories that I see.
Not ideal to be training on tbh. Not surprised you get I'll.
Smaller more nutritional meals more often to stop the snacking on crap craving and ditch a majority of not all of that coffee.....(and I like a coffee as much as the next guy)
Fwiw . I have a mate who struggled for a few years with fatigue /getting fit/endurance /illness.
Got him to record for a month what he did and what he ate. We wrote up a plan together with what's achievable time wise and this year he finished his first half iron man in a bloody good time.
He is working on next year's plan as we speak.
coffee gave you cold hands? really?
Blimey, I thought I liked a coffee but you Sir, make me look like an amateur. Doesnt seem to be much of substance in there - nothing to fuel-up your body. I'm no expert and could be called-out on having a wobbly middle but it looks like you could do with some nuts and fibre in there.
If each one of those coffees is an actual cup/mug of coffee replace 90% of them with plain water.
coffee gave you cold hands? really?
excessive caffeine gave me Raynaud's type symptoms. my hands would get cold (commuting) and not get warm for 4+ hours. I was probably drinking 4-5 L of cafetiere coffee.
interesting as im having similar symptoms.
Do you really need strangers on the internet to point out how poor that diet is? I'm not Gillian Mckeith but you are what you eat. You are a balloon filled with brown water 😉
Jeez. You're diet's mental man.
I was [s]probably drinking 4-5 L of cafetiere coffee.[/s] pissing like a racehorse
FTFY
Honey on toast is the same as starting your day with a couple of chocolate digestives, and you top up on biscuits because you sugar crash.
Fish n chips - well, if you remove the batter and the chips (fried potato = sugar) then you've the beginning of something that could have nutritional value if you added a ton of vegetable matter. Soup isn't nutritious enough, and I bet you have it with bread.
Meat n veg at dinner. Ok. But I bet those veg include carby veg (potatoes?).
Basically if you substitute the coffee for tea you have the same god awful diet that my pre-diabetic mum has. Bereft of real nutrition - you eat like the 70÷ of overweight british men eat.
Wholesale nutritional lifestyle change required or STFU tbpfh 🙂
/thread
Sugar in the coffee?
That again could be a hell of a lot added to your diet if you put 2 spoons in every one.
Jesus man, have a tin of tuna, eggs or some nuts* or something, anything!
Do you still have all your teeth? 😀
*preferably not in a fruit and nut bar
Why do you want to get fit ??? (You don't NEED a reason but it might affect HOW)
1/ Be healthier .... FIX the diet. Regardless of the exercise - pretty hard to get worse.
2/ Cycle with others: Slow down expectations... let yourself get to a level before progressing... if you do 2x a week OK then make the 3rd time a very low intensity and gradually build up....
3/ You have a 24hr Marathon to do end of the month ... you're buggered.
Put these 1+2 together and see getting fit as a long term thing not a quick fix.
No point in trying to "get fit" with that diet. He needs to learn how to "be healthy" first, then work on fitness once his body is getting the nutrition to support that.
diet for example.
7am
coffee
honey on toast
coffee
coffee
biscuit x3
coffee
10am
coffee
coffee
coffee
biscuitx3
coffee
biscuit x3
12:30
soup (fish and chips one a week)
1:30
coffee
coffee
choc
coffee
coffee
4pm
choc
choc
coffee
biscuit
dinner (meat + veg)
bed at 10
Holt shit! 13 coffees a day, a shit breakfast and not a great lunch plus chocolate and biscuits? I'd give up cycling and sort that out first.
im starting to get a feeling your all trying to tell me something here.
Im curious what do you guys and gals eat at work and for breakfast?
Breakfast was a bowl of granola with strawberry yoghurt
Lunch was courgette and feta fritters with vegetable rice
Snacks have been dried apricots, a banana, two home made cookies and a packet of multigrain crisps
There's been 3 pints of water over the day
I rode 24 miles to work and will ride the same home. No need for jelly babies on either ride 😉
On a weight loss /health /life change just now my self after a period of working abroad for a couple of years and letting shit slip.
I have a yogurt and an espresso.
18km ride in
9.30am I'll have a stoats porridge bar and a cup of cafetiere coffee
12.00 I'll have lunch which is either left overs from previous nights dinner or a couple of sandwiches with meat and salad in + a yogurt an apple and a banana
Usually followed by a walk around the industrial estate.
14.00 another banana or similar
16:30 ride 18km home.
Then 2/3 times a week I'll ride the MTB with the guys and go running so I'll have a snack of peanut butter on toast or similar do my activity then come home and have my dinner.
Portion control is everything.
Every 4th week I'll do an easy week.
Seems to be working. In 6 weeks I'm down 2notches on the belt , 6kg on the scales and. I've dropped 5% body fat comparible to previous measurements.
My fitness pal and a Garmin forerunner 735 are tracking my shit and keeping me motivated as I'm seeing the losses. Mfp really was a game changer In the weight loss aspect.
Typical day:
Breakfast: Mackerel fillet with home made pickle and a slice of bread OR cottage cheese and a banana. Weak cup of black tea
Get to work: one black coffee
Lunch: varies but usually something like tuna salad sandwich OR pastie. A cake. Some days it's just fruit.
Tea: A couple of slices of bread either with cheese or maybe jam or honey.
Supper: varies - veg curry, veg and pasta, salad and fish, quiche, occasionally (maybe once a fortnight) a take-away. Will have something sweet after this - this last week I've been making blackberry crumble to make the most of the available fruit.
Drinks at work are either weak black tea (I don't have sugar in either tea or coffee), water or cordial.
I've worked out now why I'm 14st 10