[Closed] Can people sign up to the UKGE Nationals pretty please

Lets not get into the do's and dont's, the wrongs and rights in this thread...

...although a lively thread with lots of opinion will keep it at the top of the first page - surely you have a view on which of the many wheel sizes should be obligatory or something?

69ers, obviously

http://www.ukgravityenduro.com/national-champs-for-enduro-in-the-uk-make-it-happen/

Has the enduro bubble burst then? Why is this event unpopular?

Easy on the pocket as well

Certainly, if you just send me the entry fee I'll be happy to sign up. I'll even let you choose what wheel size I ride on...

Has the enduro bubble burst then? Why is this event unpopular?

It clashes with Nats in other (i.e. DH and XC) disciplines?

Hopefully this will be the kick up the arse UKGE need to-

1) Sort their mental prices out
2) Sort their mental rules out

the series is selling well munrobiker, just not the National Champs as its not been run before

prices are fine for 3 days of riding on some superb courses, have you seen what a BDS race costs to enter!! and its 45 quid for a 1 day enduro1 or 50quid for minienduro race, im not seeing why 70 quid is so bad

the insurance requirement is probably putting a few off, its only 17 quid a year via cycleplan though....

im not seeing why 70 quid is so bad

[img] [/img]

youre worth the caash munrobiker!

the insurance requirement is probably putting a few off

I thought it was the clear lack of understanding (or ability to explain) by the organisers as to what the insurance was for that was what put people off? As you say, only £17, £17 for nothing, but only £17.

the series is selling well

They have not sold any races out this year compared to the past and in the other races I have done there is a lot of people complaining about silly new rules regarding insurance and helmets. A group of 6 of us did all the rounds last year and none this year.

There are better races for less money now.

Surely the holding of a National Championships shouldn't be dependent on a minimum number of riders turning up?

190 entrants is far too few to run a national championship?

How many were expected?

It is if it's a commercial venture...

No one was complaining about rules at Grisedale! numbers were down though 10-20% less at the first 2 rounds this year, so I think the insurance thing and how it was handled has put people off.
Its also a week after megavalanche and clashes with EWS in France, which at least some are attending.
Also due to its nature some people are racing with DH or XC national champs that weekend too!
Fortunately they'v been able to up the tech level
As BC have pulled out of enduro I suppose numbers matter even more now- 250 to break even according to fb and 350 people max ?
It's a hard sport to get right EWS Tweedlove this year was a bit of a disappointment; they'd taken out the hardest trails, put in a very unpopular pedally one and then pulled 2 stages, including the unpopular one due to weather

Vid from Grizedale

Entry fee sounds fine, its my hobby after all. Full face I agree with. However the insurance sounds a faff "[i]Bespoke Financial Ltd contact them now using the form below and they will call you with a quote.” [/i] and all the locations sound too far away.
I'm out I'm afraid, will stick to grassroots events.

I'll try again..

Kimbers, do you work for UKGE?

A shame, but surely not unexpected given the insurance business earlier in the year. That plus clashes with other races and it's no wonder they're struggling.

Last years mini enduros were spot on - shame they've now all moved down South Wales.

S'pose though if they're struggling with numbers and quality of riders its a good chance to get a good result 🙂

I really hope this happens. I don't think price is the issue, UKGE just need to tell more people about this event not everyone on FB

munrobiker - Member
Kimbers, do you work for UKGE?

ha! Im a paying punter, I just genuinely think its the best* (and best vfm) enduro series out there, though ive not ridden any Red Kite or SES races

and I want to share the love with everyone else

*best racing that is, their communication/PR needs some work!!

.
.
snorkelsucker, the fast boys are still there, Dan Athertons doing the Nat Champs over EWS

It'll be a bloody shame if it doesn't come off, Steve's had a couple of tilts at this already and the timing always seems to cut him. Location's right, price is more than reasonable for what you get...

Trouble is, everyone has to plan big events like this so far in advance, with all sorts of demands and conflicts. The conflict between dh and enduro nationals is massive though, I just can't see how that's a good idea. I suppose even if he gets the numbers to go ahead it'll be pretty undermined if many of the top riders are elsewhere.

I dont think theres too much overlap between the top DHers and Enduro riders these days, its too specialised now, training for 5 stages accross a 40 K loop is quite different from 2 days of solid riding on 1 course
more likely to affect the weekend warriors who might have done both

the EWS Samoens clash is probably taking more of the top riders away, though

The prospect of 5 (difficult) stages, over 40k, twice in 2 days if you want to practise, has possibly led to the weekend warriors (like me) to think 'er.....'

Which is only right and proper for the national champs, but with the weekend warriors staying at home, is it any surprise that attendance is a bit low?

(Although approx' 200 racers doesn't sound too shabby to me...)

200 people isn't too bad but its down on previous series rounds at dyfi

Last round had 260 which is one of the lowest ever and a real shame as it was such a good one
https://www.rootsandrain.com/organiser40/uk-gravity-enduro/

Numbers do seem to fluctuate, if the enduro federation happens next year or BC step back in hopefully the nat champs would get better advertising

And as awhiles says it is a tough 2-3 days riding, but if I can manage it, can't be too hard !

Unless you're northern the drives are long this year. Add 5 x £70 entry fees across the series and extra leave needed an extra event on its own is something people dont seem that fussed on? Essentially £800 - £1000 to race the series for me...

Perhaps if it was part of the series they would have more entries. And it's peak holiday time...

kimbers - Member

more likely to affect the weekend warriors who might have done both

That's exactly who they need to get onboard tbh, we pay for it all 😆

what do people expect.
£70 +£17 is a piss take.

There are too many events now with many trying to make big bucks.
It's a shame IMO that it's turned into a money machine.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-33267616

From some memories

Timing is bad, not just the Mega/EWS/DH side of things, start of the Holiday season, lots of the target audience will be out playing in the alps.
There may also be people waiting to see how they survive the mega before committing (I've not come back able to ride hard a week later). The late July DH races always seemed a bit down especially on regulars.

Some of the previous comms did seem to alienate the weekend warrior many may have walked away and not be interested.

So, out of curiosity, is this event claiming to be the British Champs, and if yes, who decided this was the Champs anyway ? There is no governing body, nobody to award the right to run the champs are such, no official standards to which the Champs event has to comply. Theoretically, I could order some medals, print up some posters, and run an event called the British Enduro Champs. Not going to, well not this year anyway, although there is no reason why not to, just wondering if there is an formal process or does somebody just declare themselves ?

Remember a few years ago when about 10 events were calling themselves the World 24 Hour MTB champs, one couldn't spit without hitting a 24hr world champion.

In fact sod it - next weekend - British Enduro Champs at Innerleithen. I have entered. Entries are now closed. Results next week...

Actually, Northwind you can have an entry too. Might as well have a male champion, make it look good.

Yup hels as BC bailed on the sport just as it was beconoing popular its left to people who actually care about enduro to put one on

I dont really care whats the event calls itself. I entered with the assumption that it will be the longest, steepest and toughest gravity enduro within a weekend away distance for me (south coast). Calling it the champs, can only better the chances of that. The location is perfect for this as well.

Excuse me, but you'll find its in Stockton and I'll be the male champ.

If you have money to spaff up the wall and want to ride decent trails why not book a train to Glasgow then Ride one of the SES rounds? Book far enough in advance and I bet you could get a train ticket and your £50 race entry for less that the UKGE entry and insurance.

If you have money to spaff up the wall and want to ride decent trails why not book a train to Glasgow then Ride one of the SES rounds?

hels - Member

So, out of curiosity, is this event claiming to be the British Champs, and if yes, who decided this was the Champs anyway ? There is no governing body, nobody to award the right to run the champs are such, no official standards to which the Champs event has to comply. Theoretically, I could order some medals, print up some posters, and run an event called the British Enduro Champs. Not going to, well not this year anyway, although there is no reason why not to, just wondering if there is an formal process or does somebody just declare themselves ?

Remember a few years ago when about 10 events were calling themselves the World 24 Hour MTB champs, one couldn't spit without hitting a 24hr world champion.

In fact sod it - next weekend - British Enduro Champs at Innerleithen. I have entered. Entries are now closed. Results next week...

UKGE Put the question to the panel of enduro race organisers. No one objected.

In my opinion as a race organiser and a racer, UKGE are best place to organise the Endruo Champs in 2015.

Hels do you work for BC?

No I don't work for BC.

Who was on this panel of organisers ?

Sounds to me like a bunch of blokes in the pub giving each other the special handshake, like a cartel. Come back BC - all is forgiven...

No I don't work for BC.

Who was on this panel of organisers?

EWS
UKGE
Mini Enduro
NDH
QECP (Me)
SES
nofuss
tweedlove
redkite
WES
PMBA
WGES

If you have money to spaff up the wall and want to ride decent trails why not book a train to Glasgow then Ride one of the SES rounds? Book far enough in advance and I bet you could get a train ticket and your £50 race entry for less that the UKGE entry and insurance.

Really? You show me the maths. (include race entry, accom (assuming you arent carrying a tent as well as your bike/spares/clothing, travel to/from train station with kit etc etc)

(Well you are double counting a bit there - EWS in UK is run by Tweedlove, and SES and No Fuss are essentially the same organisation)

My point is that it is all self-proclaimed, if somebody came along and called something the British Enduro Champs they would be within their rights to do that. Has this cartel agreed on any rules or standards for being in the club ?

No hels, their meetings have been just special handshakes and games of soggy biscuit to determine who hosts the Champs 😉

It may come as a surprise but since BC left the scene a lot of people have putting a lot of effort into getting a national federation running, that's meant talking to all race organisers across the UK.
I really like racing enduro and think its pretty darn cool that there's such a great choice of series here and a national championship is just the icing on the cake !

P.S and I think there are a lot of cowboys out there in the wild west of Enduro at the moment and standards have really dropped, which saddens me having put a lot of work into getting the sport established (not naming names, and there are of course notable exceptions) which is a shame, and is not a good thing for rider safety or the sport. At the moment it seems like a race for the bottom. For example - this year we have had organisers that took 4.30hrs to get a casualty with a fracture off the hill, as they ran the event with about 5 radios between them, inadequate medical cover and no vehicles capable of taking a stretcher. But I am sure they are good to have a drink with in the pub.

Well hels, sounds like some sort of collective set of rules needs to be drawn up between all the race organisers in the UK, call it a federation if you like (or a cartel if you want to be a mega nega about it all 😉 )
Sadlyits not something that can appear o ernight, after BC left everyone in the lurch, coordinating meetings between race organisers who are busy enough with their own series can't be easy.

longest, steepest and toughest gravity enduro

See I guess this will appeal to some, but if people think there is a fair chance it is beyond their capability and will increase their chances they'll end up off work with broken bones, then coupled with the high cost, you put people off.

It's hard to see where Endro is going, top riders want steeper, harder courses, but to keep weekend warriors onboard it has to be ridable by the majority.

NB: If what Hels put above is true that's a disgrace and no wonder BC walked away.

All power to people making the effort and putting on races well done them, but it seems like the territory and Big Cheese rights have been carved up, but not much attention has been given to standards e.g. safety, marshalling, communications, minimum medic coverage etc. And a lot of frapping about helmets and insurance to attempt to reduce liability of the organisers.

OK I will shut up now, promise.

Dragon, you are absolutely right, people have to be certain that if they get injured they would be covered in some way, probably a good idea to enforce full face helmets and personal insurance then!!

And surely its BC's job to prevent that sort of thing, walking away is a very shoddy thing to do.

Dragon, you are absolutely right, people have to be certain that if they get injured they would be covered in some way, probably a good idea to enforce full face helmets and personal insurance then!!

Mike what did you find to be wrong with the policies you looked at ?

I'm not convinced that any insurance policy would carry them off a mountain in the event of inept organisation!

I read it, it would pay out nothing for me in several of the situations I have been in and the exceptionally limited series of payouts isn't that good.

hels - Member

Actually, Northwind you can have an entry too. Might as well have a male champion, make it look good.

I'll probably DNF 🙁

I'm not convinced that any insurance policy would carry them off a mountain in the event of inept organisation!

Indeed that's why racing UKGE is good, comms, medic cover etc are excellent !

Well you are double counting a bit there - EWS in UK is run by Tweedlove

This is the reason we(the race organisers) are looking to form
standards e.g. safety, marshalling, communications, minimum medic coverage [b]Signage[/b], [b]Taping[/b] etc. Have all be diccuss and come 2016 we should have a standards to follow.

Yes all races won't be on board but that is there choice, all where invited.

Only really of any use of the insurance if worth more than the paper it's written on

Bingo, the cover suggested by UKGE certainly wouldn't have covered my loss of earnings if I was off work a significant time.

This is the reason we(the race organisers) are looking to form
standards e.g. safety, marshalling, communications, minimum medic coverage Signage, Taping etc.

BC already have that, so why not work with that as a basis?

I'm pretty sure they are using the standards from BC as a basis, UKGE and QECP that I know of always worked closely with them before they pulled out, some of the BC rules are just not compatible with enduro, eg, mandatory 2 practice runs down every stage.

Fortunately the choice of insurance provider was up to you, although if you are that worried about injury afFecting your income, it sounds like enduro racing and possibly mtbing aren't for you !

BC already have that, so why not work with that as a basis?

[i]The Enduro Mountain Bike Association (EMBA) was created in 2012 to develop the discipline of enduro mountain biking around the world. [/i]

Yes but BC do have rules for XC and DH, to work from. The EMBA rules in comparison seem of a quite a low standard.

Fortunately the choice of insurance provider was up to you, although if you are that worried about injury afFecting your income, it sounds like enduro racing and possibly mtbing aren't for you !

🙄

Must we do this again? The issue for most wasn't so much the requirement to have insurance. It was the requirement to pay for something for an arbitrary reason which was actually of no use whatsoever. Combine this with a lack of justification beyond "coz I said so" and it all leaves a bitter taste in the mouth!

If they suddenly introduced a "mango tax" for racing, whereby you must pay £20 to subsidise mango imports (where the largest importer is a relative of the organisers) into the UK I'd be similarly irked.

Knew it was only a matter of time until Keith Vaz got his filthy, good for nothing mitts on Enduro.

I think the UCI might be Adopting Emba's rule for enduro. Not 100%

Fortunately the choice of insurance provider was up to you

although UKGE could not confirm what level of cover you actually needed and therefore neither confirm nor deny that turning up with your chosen insurance and level of cover would actually allow you to race.

dragon - Member
Yes but BC do have rules for XC and DH, to work from

I think thats the problem, BC wanted enduros to be fully under the DH rules, especially after the spectator death at llangollen (not that the BC rules helped there?)
either enduro is too dangerous to run or you use a different framework

The issue for most wasn't so much the requirement to have insurance. It was the requirement to pay for something for an arbitrary reason which was actually of no use whatsoever. Combine this with a lack of justification beyond "coz I said so"

in what sense was it of no use whatsoever?
it was pretty basic cover but it pays out if you break bones, the UKGE team wanted to up the tech level this year, they felt that extra protection for the riders would be a good idea

the complaints about UKGE seem very confused, I know their PR is dreadful particularly when BC left and with the FF & insurance thing, but contrary stwers just seem intent on slagging them off

'the routes too long/ dangerous' -- 'but I dont agree with compulsory insurance and full face helmets'

'theres no federation behind enduro so you cant call it a nat champs' -- but getting all the enduro organiors together to beat out rules for their own fed is just a 'cartel'

'theres no proper rules for enduro' -- 'oh there are rules, well the ones used as a basis arent good enough'

'its too expensive' -- ' but pay 50 quid and get the train to scotland to do less riding and itll be cheaper?!?'

its a well of negativity in here!!

so back to the OP

Its a brilliant well organised event, in an amazing location, with some cracking stages, there is [u]no[/u] mango tax however the route is long and the tough nature of the trails require a fullface on stages and insurance for the competitors, so come along to the Inaugural UK National Enduro Championship in a couple of weeks time and have a blast!
you never know if both me and Dan Atherton have a puncture you might even end up champ! 😉

its a well of negativity in here!!

P.S UKGE doesn't have a Hardtail Cat, it's rubbish 😈

It's false to say the insurance is of no use at all. But true to say it's of very limited use to most though, with its fairly high cost, very limited cover and low payouts.

But this is really a pretty tired subject. I'm not happy to be able to say "I told you so" tbh but there you go. They've made their beds, I think.

fortunately northwind the series is well attended, its just the champs that seem to be a problem, though obviously the insurance thing was handled poorly and its put some people off

the numbers arent high enough for this race at present, which i suppose sheds some light on the 'enduro races are too expensive' thread from a few days ago

im still pretty hopeful it will go ahead, if ukge has to take a hit, I hope they can see that itll be worth it in the long run!

'its too expensive' -- ' but pay 50 quid and get the train to scotland to do [s]less[/s] better riding and itll be [s]cheaper[/s] better?!?'

It'd probably work out the same.

Train to Edinburgh from London - £20 each way. = £40.

Race entry - £50.

= £90

UKGE Entry- £70

Insurance- £17

= £87

Or, if we're being more accurate-

Train to Edinburgh from London - £20 each way. = £40.

Race entry - £50.

Car hire to get to your race- £35

= £125

UKGE Entry- £70

Insurance- £17

Full face helmet - £42 (cheapes on CRC)

Getting there- A tenner in fuel maybe?

= £139

Sounds like SES is the one to stick to.

Yeah but you get 3 days of riding at ukge, so split over 3 days..... And good luck getting those 20 rail fairs not to mention getting bike and kit on a train being a massive pita !, dyfi is well situated centrally in the UK, so works best for most people, tho if ses host nat Champs next year may have to make the trek!

If they were nearer to me I'd be quite keen to try some ses rounds as it is going up to Ae for ukge is hard work !

Would love to do some races up in Scotland, but those costs just wouldn't work. A quick check on trainline and London - Edinburgh Sept18th would be £70 return (not bad!). Forgetting the cost of me getting to London in the first place, I would be fkn knackered by the time I got to the race venue. There also appears to be only 1 train back Sun eve which would get me into London for midnight, where I would have to either get a hotel for the night or cycle the remaining 70 miles home (granted, not in a FF lid) with tent and luggage.

All ready bright and early for work on Monday at 07:30.....sounds like a plan 🙂

superfi we could always cycle to scotland , chuck all our kit in my kid trailer , better than sufferfest

in what sense was it of no use whatsoever?
it was pretty basic cover but it pays out if you break bones, the UKGE team wanted to up the tech level this year, they felt that extra protection for the riders would be a good idea

No use in the sense that the basic required (in your mind to give the organisers a nice fuzzy feeling) provides incredibly little of use to the person taking the insurance out;

The money claimable for a broken leg would not even cover the return taxi journey to collect your car from the event.
Nothing paid out if you poke your eye out with a stick (are goggles even mandatory?).
Nothing paid out if you have a major dislocation.
Nothing paid out if you rip a tendon.

Yes you can pay extra to cover these, but then riders might not know they want/need it, which would surely negate that lovely fuzzy feewing for organisers?

Accept it for what it is. Organisers needed insurance, cheap insurance offered by X company on caveat they required basic insurance from each rider and promoted X as 'suggested' insurance providers, knowing they will rake in an easy couple of hundred new clients. Totally acceptable and pretty obvious, but at least just admit it!

What I love about the person on this thread who constantly wants mandatory full face helmets, is it's the same person who got caught on more than one occasion by commisaires not wearing his FF while pedalling his bike on transistions at an event a couple years ago.

But getting back to the original topic, it's a clash of dates.
Most of the top enduro riders will be of chasing EWS points (with the exception of those who want to chase a quasi national champ title), those more interested in DH will be of to either national champs or some of the regional champs that weekend, and with the FF and insurance requirements, you're lesser skilled riders who usually help make up the figures at more relaxed events simply won't enter. It really isn't rocket science.

And despite comments about the UKGE still having good numbers, they're pretty poor and extremely slow selling compared with other series.
I know personally, I won't enter an enduro with mandatory FF or stupid insurance requirements. If I want to race in a FF, I'll enter a DH race where I'll get a couple days uplift included in a fee that would most likely be less than a UKGE round.

ccept it for what it is. Organisers needed insurance, cheap insurance offered by X company on caveat they required basic insurance from each rider and promoted X as 'suggested' insurance providers, knowing they will rake in an easy couple of hundred new clients. Totally acceptable and pretty obvious, but at least just admit it!

I suppose that could be the case, though as I understand it the insurance requirements were going to be part of the fed membership when BC pulled out but there wasn't time to get the fed set up,

There's no doubt that the insurance thing has put people off numbers down 10-20% on last year if you check the roots and its n link, fortunately there's a healthy number of people at most rounds and a lot of young rippers coming thru as well, who don't mind racing in a full face with stupid insurance, it maybe stupid but at 2.5 quid a race extra tbru cycleplan I'll happily pay extra for the best series on the country !

And stato if your talking about me, I don't think I've ever been told off for removing my helmet ?

It is defo the clash of dates thing, a shame Ews put their round on national Champs day, still better than last year when they did it same weekend as the mega !

Out of intrest how much do bespoke pay out for a leg break, I think Totally offer a much more comprehensive deal fwiw

kimbers - Member

There's no doubt that the insurance thing has put people off numbers down 10-20% on last year if you check the roots and its n link,

It's more than that, remember how fast they used to sell out- so it's not just put off people equal to the unfilled slots, it's also all the other folks that missed a slot entirely in the past. Who knows how many that is but I reckon if they lost 20% of their total market they'd still be selling out. Like I say, it's a bloody shame but no surprise.

kimbers - Member

if Parr said everyone had to wear their pants outside their shorts to race it'd still sell out in minutes

Well I was wrong on the selling out

It is a shame, its a brilliant series, I still think that the other races will still draw 300 odd racers, looking on the bright side it gives people more opportunity to get a spot if you want one!