[Closed] Calling all road tax argument winners!!!

lolcats!

....and it's all because of Alan Sugar 🙄

meh. 🙄

good luck enforcing that one

judging from what i see on my commute they struggle with ensuring folk have and use lights - despite it being the law and thats an outwardly obvious item not involving stop and check !

....and it's all because of Alan Sugar

indeed, A computer salesman who was opposed to compulsory ID cards IIRC http://road.cc/content/news/48897-lord-sugar-asks-whether-cyclists-should-have-carry-id-or-face-having-bikes

Even in a car, you don’t have to have your driving licence with you at all times, you have to present it if you’re challenged by the police at a police station at a later date, so this wouldn’t really be a very suitable or sensible thing to do, we feel.

If i am in my car they can check the reg and trace it etc if required - even at the time of stopping me. They cannot do this if I am on the bike.
CTC are very much aware of ensure we keep many freedoms but seem to think we should have no responsibility at the same time...one of the reasons I left the organisations tbh I agree with very little they say tbh. I always have ID mainly in case i am found unconscious tbh

There's some idiotic thinking going on there. I'm hanging my head further and further in shame at the state of affairs.

why not carry id - I always carry my driving license when out on the mtb in case of an accident and someone needs to id me.

why not carry id - I always carry my driving license when out on the mtb in case of an accident and someone needs to id me.

When my passport expires in May, I won't have any form of valid photo ID.

If Im going out on foot to punch someone in the face do I need to carry ID with me? NO because if I've done something wrong and I don't show the police some ID or they don't beleive me they'll nick me. We don't need (and I don't want) cyclist ID. There's already legislation to cover this sort of thing, why should cycling suffer from some daily mail lead restrictions

Why stop at cyclist? surely they should make all road users carry ID, & that includes horse riders, jogers & dog owners too

😉

Why stop at cyclist? surely they should make all road users carry ID

Sorry in a grumpy mood this morning oh and I forgot my bag when I left the house so if I'd have had a mechanical I'd have had to walk to work and if this legislation was in force I'd have been cycling illegaly (no wallet = no ID)

Car drivers don't need to carry ID so why would anyone else? I can drive another persons car with their permission provising I have my own insurance. I have access to a pool car at work. There is no law that says I need ID to drive a car, and nothing necessarily linking me as an individual to the vehicle.

A couple of benefits I can think of are:
- As already mentioned to ID you in event of an accident
- As a way of registering a bike against you, so if you're stopped and are on a bike that's not registered to you then questions can be asked. Tbh I'm thinking here about cycle theft though there are legitimate concerns I'm sure about mis-use etc.

The thing I always come back to with these debates though is how it might affect me. I'm often in a rush and can be forgetful. Do I really want to get myself in bother because I forget my ID card. Kind of breaks that sense of freedom we cherish.

As a way of registering a bike against you, so if you're stopped and are on a bike that's not registered to you then questions can be asked.

Hora would be constantly knee deep in paperwork trying to register every time he changes bike or bike bits

it's completely unenforceable. not to mention a waste of time and money involved in policing and appeals etc.

Its my right to go about my daily business unhindered.

Teh police already have a right to ask for your name and address and the right to detain you to verify it if they want.

Lets face it, its never going to happen & if it did, who is going to stop you, the Police dont have the resources to deal with bad drivers on the road let alone bad cyclist.

Been using a bike on the road for over 30 years & I have never been stopped?

Has anyone here been stopped & why?

Its a none issue tbh..

I am all for a sensible pragmatic debate about cyclists on the road but continue not to see a single jot of sense in any of the debate.

Has anyone here been stopped & why?

Thinking about it, I have been stopped too, only because the Police officer was thinking of buying the same bike I was using 😉

been stopped on a bike twice - rode of both times bored with the dialogue tbh Niether pursued me

When my passport expires in May, I won't have any form of valid photo ID.

Err yes you will, you'll have your expired passport, which can't be used a 'passport' but is still a valid form of identification.

oh yeah I also got stopped by police motorbiker because I pulled over to the right a few junctions early ie when there was a safe gap to move across on a busy road. Got a teling off/advice was only a lad at the time so just nodded "yes officer, no officer"

Junkyard YGM

why not number plate recognition and an insurance database before moaning about cyclists.

from the bbc:
[i]The worst offenders were in Greater London, Merseyside and Greater Manchester, with 13%, 12% and 10% of vehicles uninsured, the research found.

The Motor Insurers' Bureau (MIB), which compensates people in accidents with uninsured drivers, estimates over 1.7m people drove without cover in 2008. [/i]

this is a far bigger problem. cyclists kill something like half a person a year. but 2,538 (2008) people killed by motorised vehicles and many more injured

more cyclists killed in london so far this year than teenagers killed by knife crime. is licensing going to stop cyclist road deaths?

as subjects of the queen we have the right to walk, cycle and ride (horses) on the queens highway motorists are merely licensed and must pay for the privilege, this is discretionary and can be revoked at any time.

why not number plate recognition and an insurance database before moaning about cyclists

Its my right to go about my daily business unhindered.

Teh police already have a right to ask for your name and address and the right to detain you to verify it if they want.

ask them:
"how long are you going to detain me?"
"what part of the road traffic act are you going to charge me with"
"am i free to go"

you shouldn't have to hang around too long.

Err yes you will, you'll have your expired passport, which can't be used a 'passport' but is still a valid form of identification.

Not if I don't know where it is 🙂

I got a flash of the blues and two when riding along and told to get off my phone 😆 😳

Has being a Lord gone to Alan's head? Or was he always this much of an idiot, but had editorial control over what we saw of him?

I tend to stop the Police when I see them out on bikes, I'm curious about what frames they use underneath all of the reflective stickers. The Met Police have a couple of quite bling hardtails and I'll often give an approving nod if I'm stood next to one at a traffic light in the city.

a po-po in a car tried to tell me i was breaking the law riding along an A road. And was quite rude when I told him that I couldn't hear what else he was chuntering on about as the wind noise at 30mph+ was drowning him out....

Has being a Lord gone to Alan's head? Or was he always this much of an idiot, but had editorial control over what we saw of him?

The man who brought you Amstrad computers, Viglen and the em@iler phone...

stopped once for riding on the pavement.
road was closed. Diversion signs going who knows where.
pavement area vast.
7.30 am so completely deserted.
asked if i had any id, said no, gave wrong details and rode off.
the only pedestrians around were the 2 special cops. they'd had complaints. so i duely complained it was a dumb enforcement they'd been asked to do. joked.
another cyclist was doing the same and arguing with the other cop... I left it to him.
next time I'll just ride off.

The man who brought you Amstrad computers, Viglen and the em@iler phone...

Fair point

In The Future all people will be fitted with a chip at birth and using mobile 'phone technology it will be possible to tell where every single person's bin and at exactly what time.

And you won't be able to resist cos you won't be able to get a job or bank account or buy food unless you've got one.

S'true.

This nightmarish dystopian vision was brought to you by the unpalatable workings of Elfinsafety's fevered, troubled little mind....

so basically you dont want to carry ID so you can break the law without getting caught and if you had to carry ID we will tumble in to an orwellian world

Yes.

As I said it's not compulsory to carry ID when you are on foot and you can still commit crime.
Do you really want to get into "you must carry ID if you leave the house"?
Not vehemently against carrying [i]some[/i] ID per se* but defo against cyclist ID
Car regs aren't 100% either "who was diving X vehicle at Z time?" "erm sorry don't know, it was taken withou tconsent...and then someone brought it back"
sound familiar?

*still uneasy about the concept tho

This nightmarish dystopian vision was brought to you by the unpalatable workings of Elfinsafety's fevered, troubled little mind....

Plagiarist

Elfin, think of the positives, use the tag to identify your target, no more innocents getting blown up by roadside bombs. just need to read the chip identify that your British, American etc then detonate the bomb.

Take it a step further, Irish terrorists, your name is O'Neil by inferance your probably Catholic, McNeil protestant.... No need to blow the wrong people up and suffer bad PR.

I haddunt thought of that, actually.

As I said it's not compulsory to carry ID when you are on foot and you can still commit crime.
Do you really want to get into "you must carry ID if you leave the house"?

I guiess paradoxically I owuld choose to carry ID if it is my choice but yes iwould also get all libertarian if they tried to force me tbh i would just loose it somewhere

use the tag to identify your target

Done 😉

but yes iwould also get all libertarian if they tried to force me

No-one can be forced to carry ID cards at the moment so until general ID cards are ok'd this is a non-issue.

Like driver's licenses, if police want your details thay will stop and ask, like any other member of the public / road user.

What they may be able to enforce is insured use of roads - ie to enforce a min of 3rd party insurance on cyclists, the same as scooters and trucks. I wouldn't have a problem with that if the premium refected the likely damage / risk I posed - ie close to sod all - and covered me / helped me sue if required.

Anyway, not wanting to spark debate on insurance, I don't see how ID cards for cyclists is anything more than some BBC marketing-facebook-jocky stirring up hits. Ignore it and it'll go away since surely it's unworkable and unenforcable in the first place?

Are those making the most noise red light jumping cyclists.. bring on i.d.
Stop the idiots spoiling it for the rest of us.

<Prepares pyrotechnic device>

angryratio - Member

Are those making the most noise red light jumping cyclists.. bring on i.d.
Stop the idiots spoiling it for the rest of us.

<lights touchpaper>

The UK road system's entirely designed for large motorised vehicles. There's often no reason at all why cyclists can't safely jump a red light. America uses "right turns at red lights" widely as a way to keep traffic flowing, why don't we trust road users?

<stands well back>

didn't someone on here suggest that transport for London were hushing up a report that said that red light jumpers are less likely to be squashed by HGVs and that's why fewer blokes get killed? Sounds plausible...

It's only a good idea to jump a red to avoid getting squashed by an HGV if you're in a position where that's a danger in the first place, and whether you're in that position or not is up to you. So I don't see that it supports the RLJ = safer argument.

I_did_dab - Member

didn't someone on here suggest that transport for London were hushing up a report that said that red light jumpers are less likely to be squashed by HGVs and that's why fewer blokes get killed?

They did go out of their way to suppress the findings of their report that showed cyclist safety was improved by allowing motorbikes into bus lanes (after it failed to give the desired results first time, they ordered a re-run which gave even more positive results, at which point the whole process was quietly abandoned). So it seems in character.

Half-agree with Mr Salmon but I suspect there's a correlation between red-light jumping and actively thinking for yourself- the sort of rider who waits at red lights for no reason other than that you're supposed to, is probably more likely to ride up the inside of a bus or HGV because they can, and because they expect other road users to not squash them.

ski

Has anyone here been stopped & why?

the sort of rider who waits at red lights for no reason other than that you're supposed to, is probably more likely to ride up the inside of a bus or HGV because they can, and because they expect other road users to not squash them.

Now I did not say that- nor did I say that all red light jumpers are smart riders, some are just cocks.

But- people who while sat at a red light and appraise the situation and think "This is totally safe- only reason not to go is the red light" are also more likely to think "I won't ride down the side of that truck".

I've got a birth mark on my arse, does that count as I.D? 😉

[img] [/img]

why would anyone feel the need to carry id when on a bike ? we have all paid to be electronically tagged!