[Closed] Calling all lardy Sumgglers...

2017 large. haven't weighed it...

When you look at complete factory bike builds they are a good 2.5kg lighter.

According to manufacturer figures or someone actually weighing one?

Mine is a 2019 XL, pretty much the same build except Pike, carbon bars and DT 350s and is around 16kg.

The weights for complete builds are BS. The £2k YT Jeffsy Base had a declared weight of something stupid like 13kg when I was looking last year, with the cheapest components out there it's just not realistic

When I weighed my Smuggler I thought it was way too heavy. What's the point if it is heavier than my enduro bike which the manufacturer says is 14kg? I then weighed my enduro bike to find it is actually closer to 17kg

It's BS, build your bike how you want it and ride it

My 2017 was built with Yari, Stan's Arch, Maxxis DHF/DHR (2.5/2.3), SLX two pots, SLX 1x10, dropper, etc. It was well north of 30lbs. And that was before I fitted a coil spring to it.

I realised when I first picked up the frame it wasn't going to be a light build.

Mashr - manufacturers weight for a size M

chrishc777 - that's interesting. The lads I ride with are always staggered how much my Smuggler weighs when helping throw it over a fence or even onto the roof bars.

Its just got me thinking. I am relatively heavy at 104kg and always built my bikes up burly, having snapped frames in the past....

To compound the problem, my LBS has a Santacruz Hightower C frame at the moment, its considerably lighter and a bit more capable. All the parts from the Smuggler would swap over.

Its tempting. The man maths says its a no brainer. But, its a huge chunk of cash for the HT X frame!

Alex, did the weight ever bother you?

I think my issue is, its niggling at me, largely as a result of mates with bikes twice the price that are a fair bit lighter.

Subconsciously at least, its putting me at a disadvantage uphill

The 2019 frames were way overbuilt, and to be fair to Transition, their "claimed" weights are usually pretty spot on too. They claimed 3.99kg for a medium with all the hardware and shock, which is weighty, but they are bombproof. The weights on the website are setup with out tubes too, so shave 0.5kg off as you're running tubes and not tubeless. The Yari is heavier than the Fox 34 they came with too, so more weight saving for the complete bike there. Little bits all add up, but go tubeless and perhaps run a lighter rear tyre and you'll notice a big difference without affecting durability.

If weight is the main issue, you could go tubeless, fit some carbon bars and splash out on some lighter wheels, and still have a lot of change from a Hightower frame...

Yes good point Lawman - tyres and forks worth considering too!!

So if you weight 104kg and the bike 16kg that makes a nice round 120kg. So let's say you buy the SC and put the same components on it, realistically you'll save max 1kg, let's be generous and say 1.2kg. That is 1% of the weight saved so if we assume weight is the only factor in climbing then you will be 1% faster (you won't). That means on a 3 min climb you will save 1.8 seconds

For reference the mates I ride with don't drop me on climbs when I take my 1-2kg heavier enduro bike instead of the Smuggler

However if you like the shiny SC then buy it!

Or demo an eBike

EDIT: the biggest single weight saving was going from the Yari to the Pike, was around 350g less

If that Trail Boss rear tyre is a tough casing, it's heavy as a heavy thing. Had one on the Hardtail and everything thing about the tyre felt slow.

Alex, did the weight ever bother you?

Half way up the Gap in horizontal sleet, it was getting a bit old 😉

It definitely felt heavier than any other bike I'd had (other than my SX trail!). I don't think the '17 was a great climber anyway regardless of weight. Also I rode it a lot in the winter after six weeks off with damaged ligaments so that probably played a part why it always felt a bit of a chubber.

It was huge fun tho.  I took it to BPW and it seemed happier on the uplift truck even with only 115mm of travel. But I bought a Mojo3 that was - at least - 5 lbs lighter and that was pretty much the end of riding the Smuggler.

What annoyed me more was the tyre clearance. It really was rubbish in the mud.

I’ve got a ‘16 in large too.
A touch over 14kgs.
140mm DVO diamonds, carbon bars, tubeless on Halo vapour wheels, 11 speed.

Never had any issues with climbing, like others have said the later version was built burlier.
Boost rear end and a bit more clearance and it would be perfect.

Chrishc777.....

I really liked your post. However you stopped just short of what I have been thinking.....

I weigh 58Kgs which is pretty much HALF of the combined weight of bike and rider you have spoken of.

I'm also 5ft 3ins.

Question is..... Is the OP 10ft 6ins tall?

I would guess that the easiest (and cheapest way) to loose 3kgs would be to loose it from the rider.

I haven't met many 104Kg people who couldn't afford to loose a few Kilos.

Just saying!

Thanks everybody.

Lawman, its good to know they are overbuilt. At least its good to know they are heavy for a reason!

I think the observation on the rear tyre and tubeless set up is valid.

Simon - yes. 3kg from me would help. That's a work in progress.....darn lockdown.

We have just approved a C2W scheme at work and I might use it as an opportunity to buy parts to put it on a diet.

I went for the WTB Trail boss as its pretty good rolling, but I had noticed its heavy. Will start another thread and see what folks recommend.

I found the DHR2 was too draggy, same for the DHF on the rear. I have a minion ss in the garage and found it terrifying.

HR2 general consensus seems to be they are not HR at all.

I have a maxis aggressor on the back of my e bike and it seems to roll pretty well.

davegt......

I know that feeling! I'm also 3Kgs over weight at the moment! Too much Stollen and Mince Pies over Xmas.

Usually takes me about 8-9 weeks to loose that much once the serious training kicks in.

Hmmmm Stollen. The winter mountain biking snack of champions. Washed down with some sloe gin from the hip flask when we reached the top. Our boozy xmas eve ride out was chaotic. Fairy lights, tinsel and reindeer onesies....and mud. lots of mud.

I also had the 2017 Smuggler.

That weighed similar to an enduro bike - and to be fair it could keep up with them on some descents. I know the newer one was heavier still.

I moved on to an Orange Stage 6 which was lighter, longer travel obvs, and quicker up, down and along.

The Hightower would probably be similar - so just go for it if you have the funds and fancy a change anyway.

*walks in*

*Looks around for advice on how to hide vast quantities of Lardy Cakes about ones person to get through customs*

*walks out again, shaking head in disappointment*

Fettlin - possibly the best response to a post I have ever seen! Darn Brexit impeding flow at cakes.

Thanks again for the suggestions. I rode a Stage 5 and liked it. Issue was my irrational hatred of no bottle bosses on the frame....

It deffo feels like there is scope for fettling bits and tyres to make a difference here, and if all you do is swap all the bits to a new frame I think you’d be missing a trick. If it were me I’d swap some bits first. Then if you really want a new frame at least you’d have some better quality bits to festoon it with anyway...

I weigh 58Kgs which is pretty much HALF of the combined weight of bike and rider you have spoken of.

I’m also 5ft 3ins.

Question is….. Is the OP 10ft 6ins tall?

I would guess that the easiest (and cheapest way) to loose 3kgs would be to loose it from the rider.

I haven’t met many 104Kg people who couldn’t afford to loose a few Kilos.

I haven’t met many 5ft3in people who couldn’t afford to gain a few inches. 😉

Thanks again for the suggestions. I rode a Stage 5 and liked it. Issue was my irrational hatred of no bottle bosses on the frame….

I'm not saying get an Orange, just that I'm sure there are lighter bikes which do everything at least as well as a Smuggler, while having more travel.

It was still a great bike, and very satisfying to ride, just a bit of a novelty act in a way (like other heavy, short travel 29ers).

Jambo's reply is top quality.

But moving Ng on to this bit:

I weigh 58Kgs which is pretty much HALF of the combined weight of bike and rider you have spoken of.

I’m also 5ft 3ins.

Question is….. Is the OP 10ft 6ins tall?

No, because weight is prett much proportional to volume, not height. So you'd expect the OP to be 201cm.

Hmm, closerz but still not true.

I have a 2016 small

with

Pike 140mm
Full 8000 XT shifter, mech (1 x 11) and XG 1150 cassette, 540 pedals and XT brakes
Renthal alloy bar and stem with easi grips
Spesh Command dropper with Selle Italia XP saddle
Carbon rims on pro4 hubs with 2.25 Ardent on the back and 2.35 HR front. Both tubeless

and mine weighs just over 29lbs

and I'm 5ft 4", so yes could with gaining a few inches 😉

,

It might feel heavier when you pick it up but that doesn’t matter when you’re riding it. MTB weight matters in a quantitative sense at the pointy end of competition where uphills are timed, and for very light people like my small children. If it feels good when riding then you don’t have a problem with it in a qualitative sense.

Thinking it is harder uphill is just something you need to get over. The system weight makes a big difference uphill and the bike is a tiny part of that. I’ve ridden my Levo loads with the power off and it’s miles heavier than your Smuggler - yet it’s not that much slower than a normal bike that is 15-25lbs lighter.

Due to the pandemic I’m not going to the gym and not riding my bike as much as usual. Because of the former I’m down about 10kg! And despite the latter, because of the former I’m quicker uphill right now despite my reduced cardio fitness.

Leave the bike alone, it’s fine. If you want to go faster uphill, change yourself - but you don’t need to, just do what you enjoy!

33lb/15kg for my 2019 XL

No carbon at all on it, wanted something reliable. The frames are 4kg, so no featherweight.

Pike Ultimates
Renthal Fatbar/Deity Stem

XM421/Pro4 wheels and spesh grid ground control/fast trak (add another 1lb for minions and DTXm481 wheels)

M8100 XT cranks/cassette/chain
XTR shifter/mech
Xt pedals

One up dropper
Spesh Saddle

Its an ace bike, nothing I'd swap it for, does local xc, along with xc everywhere else.

I could probably shave a kg off it, by running more carbon and XTR stuff, but its all relative when I weigh 200lbs, rather have durable kit.

I'm at 13.5kgs on my 2019 Smuggler Carbon (size large).

2019 Smuggler Carbon frame (large)
Rockshox Pike Ultimates (equivalent as started as Rev RC’s) with Charger 2.1RC damper and Slik matt gold decals
Rockshox Super Deluxe rear shock with Slik matt gold decals.
Bontrager Line 30 Carbon wheelset
Maxxis DHF/DHR II tyres (2.30″), set up tubeless with Stans
Sram GX Eagle groupset
Absolute Black 32t oval ring
KMC gold chain
Sram G2 RSC brakeset with Centreline (180m f&r) rotors and gold ti’ caliper bolts
Renthal Apex 35 40mm stem
Raceface Next R 35 20mm riser bars (800mm width)
DMR Death Grips (Gum colour)
Raceface Aeffect dropper post with lever
SDG Radar MTN Cro-Mo black/gold saddle
Xpedo Spry magenusium flat pedals (or latest gen’ XT trails depending on where I am riding)
Fabric side-access bottle cage

I reckon there is still a good half a kilo to go if i chuck some more cash at the groupset, dropper and wheels.

The thing is as close to a perfect 'do everything' bike as i have ever owned (and I've had MANY bikes). Crappy rear tyre clearance is the only negative. I use the bike for XC in the New Forest and rowdy stuff in the Slurry Hills.

Absolutely adore it and can't imagine selling it for quite some time

Worth mentioning that these bikes are heavy for trail bikes for a reason. I take mine for trips away to bike parks sometimes for some giggles and apart from a bit of bottoming out it performs perfectly

I’m going to say that I would happily ride Champery or Fort Bill on it