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Hmmm, will stick with my triple & bash here 🙂
Depends on if you are old and fat and like climbing big hills - got any big hills where you are?
Well it's not so much 'big' that's the issue here, as 'steep', and yes, I have steep climbs that I've never seen anyone clear in a 22-34 type low gear, but have done so in a higher gear. Momentum is your friend.
If you're on a big bike and are unfit then I can see the merit, but that still won't help if you need a bit of grunt to get over some roots (for example) where a bit of momentum is key, you'll just end up walking. I can happily show you a hill on my local route where that's the case.
I did say IMO, that is based on me being fairly fit and riding a light bike. I can't think of a single hill, anywhere, that I've not been able to ride with a 28t (and thus far none with a 36) that I could with a 22. YMMV.
I run 2x9 on some bikes and 3x9 on others. It seems ideal on some of the bikes I do use it on (e.g. Enduro, BFe) where I don't miss the big ring at all, but I'm sure it wouldn't work on a bike like my Epic where I tend to use the big ring a lot. My Soul is on 2x9 at the moment but I'm thinking about going back to 3x9 on it as I do find I miss the big ring a bit plus running in 36x11 a lot seems to cause a fair bit of clanking from the back with the chain slapping about on the chainstays.
Why not go for a double with bigger rings? Like 26/39 as the OP is after. Best of both worlds (or worst, depending on you!).
Part of me finds it odd, as you would think with advancements in bikes people would be climbing steeper hills, and going faster down them 😉
But I accept it may be suited to more focussed bikes.
Well back in the day a standard chainset often had a 28t granny, with a 28 on the cassette, so 1:1, which is still taller than many people are running on a single ring set up.
Downhill terrain is getting harder, so pedalling at 40mph is less relevant - look at an early 90s DH event - it's a fireroad!
Njee -ah well - I can take you to plenty of hills where a 22 tooth ring is of decided use - you know - long steep hills. Ones you cannot just blast up with momentum but require grinding your way up.
It all depends on where you ride
No regrets at all. The only time I ever wish I had a big ring is on tarmac or fireroad descents and frankly, who cares? You can still pedal to a decent pace on 36T. OTOH there's been plenty of times when I've tagged the bashring hard enough to be [i]very[/i] glad I didn't have a big ring on.
I run 9spd 22-36 with a bash & SLX dbl f/mech. Sometimes doesnt want to drop into the granny but that could be wear & tear / not quite right set up.
Triple rings are for losers.
Njee -ah well - I can take you to plenty of hills where a 22 tooth ring is of decided use - you know - long steep hills. Ones you cannot just blast up with momentum but require grinding your way up.It all depends on where you ride
And how fit you are, which is more relevant. I'm not talking about never doing anything more than a 30 second sprint, I grind up hills, I can just grind up them in a 36. Margam Park had a whisker under 1000ft of climbing in 4 miles, I did 4 laps of that without having to walk once.
It's hard to grasp I know, but there's a chance I'm just stronger than you. Like I say, people didn't used to have a 22t chain ring, and they still rode up hills. **gasp**
Edit: and like I say, I'll happily take you to a local hill I have where a 22/34 gear has yet to serve any use for anyone - people have either cleaned it in a bigger gear, or not at all. Even though it's only about 20ft that's actually difficult to ride.
I thought by switching to 40/27 with an 11-34 cassette all you lose over 44/32/22 and 11/32 is a gear off the bottom & one off the top?
Andy
I thought by switching to 40/27 with an 11-34 cassette all you lose over 44/32/22 and 11/32 is a gear off the bottom & one off the top?
Basically yes, which is why I don't really get why so many people feel a 22 is so necessary.
Like you can never be too thin or two rich you can never have too low a gear. I'd like a 20 tooth chainring
Its more like two off the bottom is it not anyway?
Your frame maybe important too - noticeably less bob and feedback on some single pivots in the middle ring. Not like you wouldn't get used to it, but maybe it'd bug you.
22/28 (ie one cog down on an 11-32) = 0.79
27/34 = 0.79
Obviously 22/34 is lower, then it's more like 1.5 gears lost at the bottom end, but depends how much you use that. Again [b]personally[/b] and I'll put that in bold so you don't take it as a blanket rule, I think such low gears aren't useful, I've not had a gear that low for 6 years and I've not missed it once, at all, anywhere. Again; YMMV.
I'll leave it after this but having been through 7/8/9/10 speed and the claims at every jump that they wouldn't cope as well, this simply isn't the real world result.
My personal experience is that 7-speed cassettes and chains take longer to clog up when it's really muddy. I also find that the indexing needs adjusting less frequently.
Its more like two off the bottom is it not anyway?
In terms of gear ratios, assuming all else is the same:
22F 32R = 0.6785
22F 28R = 0.7857
26F 34R = 0.7647
27F 34R = 0.7941
So the bottom gear on 2x9 with a 26t or 27t inner is much the same as the second bottom on 3x9 with a 22t granny.
Even with 26F 36R (as some 2x10 setups will allow) it's still 0.7222 so not as low as 22F/32R.
Andy
ermm- I use a 11/34 casettee
Good for you, as above then it's more like 1.5 gears lost. A lot of people use 11-32s though, there are other people on this planet, a difficult concept I know 🙄
I will definitely look you up if I'm in Edinburgh riding, I want to find these climbs that cannot be conquered by anyone unless you have a 22/34, do you have a GPS course of any of these beasts?
njee, why are you so intent on putting words into TJ's mouth? Disagree with what he's said if you like, but don't just make things up, it only reflects badly on you.
Maybe some of us prefer lower cadence pedalling too
CBA reading all responses, but
calling all 2x9 or 2x10ers -- any regrets?
One - that I used triples for so long. Won't go back ever.
njee, why are you so intent on putting words into TJ's mouth? Disagree with what he's said if you like, but don't just make things up, it only reflects badly on you.
Because of statements like this:
I can take you to plenty of hills where a 22 tooth ring is of decided use
and this:
Ones you cannot just blast up with momentum but require grinding your way up
The over riding point is being ignored, and that is that different things work for different people, it's not about where you ride, some folk are stronger, some are happy to grind it out, some are spinners. I just dislike TJs 'pah, I'll show you some real hills' type attitude, assuming the over riding issue is that I never see anything bigger than a speed bump, whereas the reality is we're just different riders, and our local riding is a long way down the list of relevant factors.
I have caveated everything with IMO/YMMV, as I always do on things like this, and yet TJ often seems to argue, for a change.
I'd like a 20 tooth chainring
I have one spare. You're not having it though 😉
What you said was: "I will definitely look you up if I'm in Edinburgh riding, I want to find these climbs that cannot be conquered by anyone unless you have a 22/34"
TJ has said no such thing as you admit.
njee - I'm only teasing.
there are a few folk I ride with and most of them use use a 22 granny ring - You can proabably outclimb me in your middle ring being younger and fitter - however for me gears from 2 - 25 mph are what I need - and thats 22/ 36 chainrings, 11/34 casette.
Of course you can grind uphill at a really low cadence in a higher gear if you are fit enough - me I ride for fun.
Your local riding makes a huge differnce as well - some of the highland climbs you can be climbing for an hour plus easily
A fine example of the Edinburgh defence 🙂
If I'm out on a ride, and not worrying about what people on a forum think, I often take it very leisurely in my 22t gear. Unlike TJ I also enjoy going fast downhill 🙂 And Monsieur Shimano has us all catered for. Vive la difference!
I'm relatively young but not that light* and not that fit** and prefer to save my legs for the downs - thus 36/22 11-34 works very well for me. I stay in the 36 most of the time but I've yet to have a ride where I don't appreciate the easiness of the 22 at some point.
*ie probably lighter than the average man but not a skinny cyclist type...
**ie not an amateur XC racer but quite fit compared to most of the populace!
Why so many anti triple views? I'm over 40. I ride infrequently but it does usually involve riding up some awfy big hills. I like having a 22/34 in the cupboard even if it is only used on the steepest bits or if the legs are failing. I like riding downhill quite quickly without the chain rattling off the swingarm or stays 'cos the cage spring can't keep tension on bumpy ground. Having a 44T ring to wrap the chain round keeps things quiet.
Do like the idea of a 1 x 9 for winter use or moderate terrain though.
I prefer two rings up front anyway. My XC bike is 2x9 and my AM bike is only 3x9 by virtue of the fact that the SLX triple chainset came with the bike.
As soon as I can warrant the expense, it'll be a double and bash with a chain device.
A 22/34 combination is bloody spinny and slow though, so (as njee implies) you need severely good balance skills to be able to use it on the type of slope that might require it.
I went to a 27 in my double because I thought that if I came to a hill that steep I would likely be out of the saddle trying to manage my weight distribution over the bike and keep a little more speed up than if I was spinning 22/34.
The 22/34 combination is the type where, if you have to dab, you are unlikely to get started again as the forward momentum is so low.
you need severely good balance skills to be able to use it on the type of slope that might require it
Nah, not really. You're right that it's hard to get started again if you stop in a steep bit though.
turner - I don't find it so - even riding at 2 mph its no issue and restarting is fine
downsp - if yo shorten the chain it don't flap around on a 36 and that can be peddaled to high 20s mph which is quick enough for me offroad - just ocasionally I spin out on the road or long forestry descents. Its nice to have the extra ground clearance
well - I did the Bearded Man 3 day on my triple thinking about all of this
fitness wise - well I'm nowhere near Njee from what I gather. I am 46 and 15 1/2 stone. I finished sort of mid pack in probably a fairly decent field
So - no I didn't use my 22/34 much, but a few times it allowed me to grab an easy gear, spin wildly and get up a steep bit which otherwise would have been a dismount 50 m push and remount
and I used my 42 / 11 and 42 / 13 (I think) quite a lot on the long descents, rather than spinning madly
I like the idea od 1 x 10 as you lose a shifter and mech, but personally I'd struggle climbing. 2 x 10 I could get away with I think (say 24 / 36 with 11 - 36?) but you don't lose much in the way of bits and pieces so it looks a pretty pricey upgrade
I've not used a triple on a mountain bike for at least 2 years, don't miss the big outer ring at all even on road sections. I don't spin out even with a 32t middle - probably just don't push hard enough but I don't really pedal on downhills!
22/36 upfront with a bashguard and 11/34 at the back suits me just fine. Its only trying to haul ass on a big open decent that I run out of gears and speed, but that isn't why I go mountain biking. For great trail riding it works just fine.
Running 2X9 27/42 11-32 on my Orbea and haven't missed the 22T once, the fact I never used it when running the triple didn't influence me. Most of the climbing I did was in the region og 500m over 5-10km, so quite long and steady. Even the shorter, steeper climbs haven't caused problems. I reckon that if I could do stuff on the 32:16 single speed a double would work just fine.
I think a double, or even a triple, would be useful on some occasions having read Matt Page's accounts of the Ironbike race in the Alps...
As has been said - what works best for one person won't for others... It all depends on fitness (the biggie), terrain, bike weight, riding style... Personally, where I ride at trail centres, N Downs, Swinley and XC race courses I find 1x10 or 1x9 perfect for my blend of all those things. I ride past a lot of people on the uphill bits at such places for whom a 36t single ring would not be perfect. As I said, it all depends... This isn't one of those questions that has one answer.
GB
TJ has said no such thing as you admit.
I'll concede that when I paraphrased TJ I thought he'd been a bit stronger in his wording, but what fun is it to back down mid-argument 🙂
I wouldn't use a single ring on a 'trail' bike myself, I'd rather have something a bit more spinny then for sure, just in case, it just wouldn't be a 22t!
TJ you can still get 5-arm 20t rings, I'll wager you could get some seriously cheap cranks too, combine with an 11-36 block and you really would never run out of gears.
Stupid technical question part umpteen:
If I were to go 2x9 using a triple crank, does it matter whether the rings used are 'position-specific', ie. would a 40t 'outer' work OK on the middle ring bolts?
Andy