[Closed] c2w loopholes?

Its possible but its fraud IIRC

fraud? hmm, ok i'll rephrase. anyone borrowed someone else's c2w scheme bike?

It's fraud and tax evasion.

Who do you think you are - an MP?

Phone teh police!

on a slightly related tangent, does anyone know why child seats aren't allowed on cyclescheme? Not that it effects me, we've recently had one rejected in work....

It is fraud and if it's shouted about often enough on public forums and the likes the game will get stopped.
As with all things like this there are loopholes. If you're going to use them then sshhhhhhhhh! 🙂
I could suggest using a persons C2W bike on the days they choose not to.

i reckon it'll be ok, if questioned why she bought a 20" frame when she's only 5'3", mrs mcgroo can say she though she had trouble touching the floor the shop assured her it was the right size!

ok barney mcgrew, 10-4, you ain't seen me... right?

end of thread.

😉 😆

Hmmmm, so you want to purchase something for less than it's retail price using a discount that isn't available to you?

the only "legal" way as far as I can see is for your friend to lease/buy the bike through C2W, use it for a year, finally pay it off with their employer so that is definately their property then they can sell it on to you...

Basically it's a bit like your mate getting a company car and you asking if you can have it, all the time even though its a perk of his/her job...

or as most fairminded people would call it, Taking the piss...

anyone know why child seats aren't allowed on cyclescheme?

Because your children should be at school instead of sitting in the corner of the office?

there was a guy posted up here a while ago about getting caught getting bikes for his kids though the scheme. More employers are now getting stats on what bikes are purchased, general info - size, colour etc. I'd say be very careful, as any loopholes that may exist are closing and talking about them on public forums isn't too smart......

Underhill - Member

Because your children should be at school instead of sitting in the corner of the office?

But what if you need to drop the kid off at nursery en route?

"Because your children should be at school instead of sitting in the corner of the office? "

my work has a nursery

Buy a child seat out of the money you've saved?

what cookeaa said

Answer #2: Welfare will be onto you for bombing down the local Black Run with a child strapped onto the back

Bregante -
what cookeaa said

ahem, what barney mcgrew said, nudge nudge 😉

ahem, what barney mcgrew said, nudge nudge

taking the piss

taking the piss? wouldn't dream of it!

[s]now, where did i put that orange brochure?[/s]

£100 bike for the son. £900 of 'bits' for the Dad. Sure it's been done.

has anyone heard about the scheme being dropped by Devon county council?

Surely the bike belongs to your company whilst under the scheme & if they gave permission for someone else to ride it - it'd be fine

I agree with:
The tax evasion angle
The keep your gob shut in public angle 🙂

My company also has the resident HR cycling expert vetting applications to stop folk buy h bikes for spouse or kids

Happily he doesn't know the difference between a Raleigh mermaid and a heckler LOL

Its possible but its fraud IIRC

So, everytime I ride MrsPPs C2W Trek to the shops it's fraud is it? Do me a favour! 🙂

FFS it's threads and comments like this that will get the whole thing closed down.
HMRC are scrutinising the whole thing IN GREAT DEPTH at the moment. People who take the piss don't understand the complications involved. Part of my job is to weed out and find those who have took advantage and report this to their employers, for some it has meant being hauled in front of their HR, obviously HR departments take fraudlant usage VERY seriosuly.
We can and we do ask for receipts of transactions to show exactly what you've had. And if we monitor bike forums you can sure as hell believe that HMRC do

Nobody has mentioned any loopholes yet. Just fraud.

so the benefit cheats have now invaded this site. cheers.
didn't you know that mountain biking was for rich middle class gentlemen?
all the gear, no idea?

PeterPoddy -
So, everytime I ride MrsPPs C2W Trek to the shops it's fraud is it?

yes and the implication would also be that everytime mrspp uses her c2w trek for anything other than cycling to work would also be fraud.

anyway, the fraud, tax evasion and taking the piss comments are all bollocks. i worked for 22 years on paye, i've worked the last 7 years self employed, i've paid all the taxes my accountant said i had to pay, i've never claimed job seekers allowance, working tax credits, child benefit, child tax credit, incapacity benefit, income support, dissability living allowance, attendence allowancs, carers allow etc, i think you get the picture.

but being self employed i am discriminated against by not being allowed the same incentives as paye employees.

i think i'll phone my accountant, see if i can buy my bike through my business, won't have to pay rrp, get it from anywhere, get the vat back and get it for net (pre tax) and won't have to pay the £60 or so for transfer of ownership in 18 months time!

IIRC the "majority" of the use of the bike has to be for trips to work.

has to be >50% i.e minimum 50.1% what al says

IIRC the "majority" of the use of the bike has to be for trips to work.

but difficult to prove without a mileometer.

lets face it, for people who have never cycled to work, this scheme is a genuine incentive to do so. for all of us on this forum, and all the cyclists not on forums, it's a way of getting your next bike at a discount.

anyway, i've just emailed my accountant.

I staggered at what some people think cyclescheme is for. It's designed to get people out of their cars, not to fund your next shiny bike purchase on the cheap.

I get asked often to 'top up' vouchers above the £1k limit, which I refuse to do.

I also know of an employee who may shortly be losing his job as he thought it was a good idea to sell his bike on before the final value fee.

I also know of an employee who may shortly be losing his job as he thought it was a good idea to sell his bike on before the final value fee.

How did they find out? My company, like most I'm sure, take little interest in the bike just want the repayments in your payslip.

Stu McGroo

and how much tax and NI do you pay? Every self employed person I know pays a far smaller % of their income in tax and NI than PAYE folk.

And then they whinge about it.

So what do you write off against tax? Cars/ enetertainment / lunches/ etc etc Us on PAYE can't do the creative accountancy stuff

i think i'll phone my accountant, see if i can buy my bike through my business, won't have to pay rrp, get it from anywhere, get the vat back and get it for net (pre tax) and won't have to pay the £60 or so for transfer of ownership in 18 months time!

Just do this, yes.

If you're self-employed then you probably pay less tax and NI than most people anyway, so don't worry about being discriminated against.

I say get what you can out of em. You pay them enough in the first place so there's no harm in clawing a bit back. 😉

HMRC are scrutinising the whole thing IN GREAT DEPTH at the moment.

this is very true - c2w could go that same way as computers 4 homes scheme due to all the abuse of the system..

i campaigned for 4 years to get the scheme at my employer - and in my office we gen have people that are new to cycling to work where before they used the bus etc and htye are choosing bikes that are useful for commuting like hybrids, bromptons etc not 6" travel trail bikes!

also on our scheme at the end of the hire period as per hmrc guide we have to pay a fair market rate for the bike or at least 10% to keep the bike.

re childseat - that should be allowed as youi are able to get a trailer

ziggy, i'm staggered that you're so naive, neither this government nor any successive government gives a flying **** about your carbon footprint. after paye the car is the next biggest earner in taxes, not to mention a massive employer, fuelling more paye, followed by fags and booze. this is just a token gesture to look good in the eyes of the world, the last thing any western government wants is for people to stop using their cars.

like i said tj, whatever my accountant tells me to pay... that's what i pay him for... to know all the [s]loopholes[/s] legal tax breaks 😉

Stu McGroo - YGM

I'm just bumping this back to the front page to make it easy to find for the HMRC guys.....

The real problem with C2W in my opinion is that while it started ostensibly as an incentive to cycle to work by providing a subsidised bike, it has degenerated into a moneymaking scheme for the companies administering the scheme.
As a low tax bracket NHS employee I saved well less than 20%. Alternatively I could have gone to the shop, asked for the 10% discount they have to give the admin company, and saved the wait and hassle. I know what ill do next time.

The thing is it’s a government endorsed scheme to allow companies to basically use their VAT No’ and help employees get a bicycle [u]to commute[/u] on as a cheap way to improve their fitness, save fuel and reduce pollution, a perfectly honourable goal…

Obviously if your employer runs the scheme and you are a bit more than a casual commuter then you should take advantage where possible and get a bike that can be used to commute during the week but could also be used at the weekends for a bit of “Leisure use” and I don’t think that would upset too many HR departments…

But deliberately abusing the scheme to obtain bikes and Kit for other people is just wrong, They specifically state this is against the rules of scheme in the literature. A “Loophole” would be a vague statement or omission from the rules set out for the scheme; which allowed you to fiddle it, for instance it’s not explicitly stated how often the bike should be used for commuting or even if it can/cannot be used for purposes other than commuting to work so "weekend leisure use" is is less of a sticking point than trying to obtain goods for someone outside of your company.

Using on organiosations VAT No and also bumping down your pre-tax pay a tad, whilst re-distributing falsely obtained good is Fraud whatever you choose to call, it it's simply an abuse of a privileged position and employers/HMRC would be well within their rights to deal out a harsh penalty to offenders…

Do it if you feel you have some sort of “robin Hood” justification. you’re blatantly wrong but hey, it only matters if you get caught, alternatively you could try and get your own employer to joint C2W…

druidh - Member
I'm just bumping this back to the front page to make it easy to find for the HMRC guys.....

I'm sure they have guys working overtime on this one, right now.

well my accountant emailed me back as follows;

Dear Mr McGroo,

It's all about justification. If there is a way in which you feel you could argue that you sometimes use the bike for work then you could claim...

Hope this helps.

Yours sincerely,

Mr Accountant.

he goes into more detail but that doesn't matter. so there you go, not a loophole, fiddle, con, lie, re-distribution, false claim or piss take in sight. 😆

it'll cost you more if you buy it from LL anyway, you'll save nowt

oh, and can i have a go?

don't talk to me about LL, i proper f'cked up there! (ref; mtbmaff)

anyway it'll come from whoever offers the best [s]dodgy invoice[/s] allround deal and yes you can.

s'not like you weren't warned!

shudda come to the wyre 😉

My collegue got a ctw voucher from work, and we regreted it later as you dont really save anything. Most shops wont exchange it for anything in a sale as the voucher company take a 10% cut in the sale price, forcing you to pay top prices and thus saving very little at all, if not restricting your choice. This perticular scheme dosent allow you to make up a slight shortfall in the voucher value with cash should you find something you like but are just short, and once you have the voucher which had a short 2 month expiery date, you had to pay for it weather you used it or not. No sending it back. Was a bit of a scam looking back. Certianly dont think it would be such a shame to loose it.

whilst looking at the c2w rules i noticed that if your commute involves a train journey you are allowed to have two c2w bikes, one for each end of the train ride! these government bods think of everything!

anyway, i've got a better idea 😉

Good luck Mr McGroo, but if your accountant hasn't already advised you this, from what I've heard HMRC are rather hotter at checking up on people buying leisure items for "business use" than they are at policing C2W fiddles.

didn't the government's 'computers for everyone' (or whatever it was called) get shut down by this kind of n0bhead behaviour.

just buy a bike, get it cheap, lovely. stop trying to be too clever. before you ruin it for everyone.

SO many people trying to get one over the taxman to save a few quid. what's the point?

tracknicko,

didn't the government's 'computers for everyone' (or whatever it was called) get shut down by this kind of n0bhead behaviour.

just buy a bike, get it cheap, lovely.

stop trying to be too clever.

before you ruin it for everyone.

SO many people trying to get one over the taxman to save a few quid. what's the point?

i think i'll phone my accountant, see if i can buy my bike through my business

you can. same as a company car.

except unlike a car, you can have the use of one for free

exactly thomthumb but with talk like that you'll have the forum-police on your case.