Looking around at various options for a new frame and one that I've looked at from a European manufacturer is actually made in China.
I don't know why, but this somehow makes it less desirable.
I've got no reason to suspect that a Chinese welder on £10 a month is any less capable than a European welder on £10 an hour and the tubes themselves probably come from China anyway, so why have I got this irrational preference for a European built frame ?
The retail price, with custom geometry and a couple of other unusual specifications is well over twice the price of the standard Chinese titanium frames on ebay.
£1500 is a lot for a frame. I suppose, for that, I'm getting custom design and build and reassurance that they have picked a reputable Chinese manufacturer.
For £600 I could get an off the peg Taiwanese titanium frame.
I would imagine that for somewhere between those two prices I could find a Chinese factory that would custom build a frame for me.
So, convince me that I should, or shouldn't buy a European Chinese frame.
would imagine that for somewhere between those two prices I could find a [b]factory in Halifax to build me a full suspension bike[/b]
So, convince me that I should, or shouldn't ...
No. Make your own mind up.
It sounds like you are already talking yourself out of the UK brand, so if you did go ahead it wouldn't be the joy you're hoping for.
Buy a bog or custom Ti from China? It doesn't stoke my boiler; it's up to you.
RACIST!!!!MidlandTrailquestsGraham - Member
Looking around at various options for a new frame and one that I've looked at from a European manufacturer is actually made in China.
I don't know why, but this somehow makes it less desirable.
all those carbon bike frames that have 'made in italy' on them - the actual frames are made in china but because they are painted in Italy (and are thus deemed to have had more than half their 'value' created there) can be badged as 'italian made'.
I wouldn;t worry too much about where it's made, more about how and [i]why[/i] it's made like it is.
Have a look at lynskey woudl be another alternative?
If only you could be this easily swayed about that ridiculous diet and absurd fringe biking activity.
For £600 I could get an off the peg Taiwanese titanium frame.
For that you could get a custom chinese frame. Considering it myself.
I got a russian ti frame and I have no issues with it - its awesoem actually
Cut out the middle mad...
China
http://www.xacd.com.cn/
Russia
http://tritonbikes.com/blog/
The reason I'm looking at custom build is that I want a belt drive 29er.
The £1500 I've been quoted for a Ti frame, including Bushnell BB and Rohloff drop out, is only £225 more than an aluminium Nicolai Argon.
Wrecker, yes I could get a custom Chinese frame direct, but where do I start ? How do I know who are the good builders to deal with ?
At the moment, I am definitely leaning towards the European/Chinese manufacturer option for simplicity and peace of mind, even if it is a lot more money.
Fair enough. The links above are reputable manufacturers and if youre spending that amount have you checked out Burls? They have a very good rep and may be a bit cheaper.
Ask Ade Ward he has a custom 29er made in china,I dont think he was happy about the timescale it took but he has nearly got two of them now.
As for country of origin? Tubing is pretty much open season on who where what rumour is doing the rounds at the time.If you want aero certified then put your hand in your pocket, it may or may not be better than whatever generic ti tube is being stuck together in the chinese shops. Some of the really good Ti tube is drawn right here and cold worked in the UK
If you dont want to pay the money buy a chinese one if it breaks then just buy another ,disposable society reigns supreme??
don't think so - he needs split chainstays so he can run a belt drive?
... he has nearly got two of them now ...
Is it possible to have "nearly" a bike?
I suppose if its not in the country but its paid for and in transit
Is this from Van Nicholas? I know they do a 29 Zion now and have the Rohloff and belt drive options. If so do they still offer a lifetime Warranty
I'd go for someone with belt drive building experience. titanium is flexible and belts don't tend to like that so it'd need to be done right.
slightly off topic but why so few custom aluminium builders?
Might be worth speaking to Justin Burl, custom made in Russia but with a uk warranty etc. He'll pretty much do whatever you want.
Sound bloke and nothing's too much trouble.
I'd go for someone with belt drive building experience. titanium is flexible and belts don't tend to like that
Van Nicholas have changed the Zion Belt Drive Rohloff drive side dropout so it now includes a gear hanger to mount a snubber so they obviously had issues with the original design.
I had an XACD 29er frame made last year.
Here's what I said last year.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/one-of-those-cheap-chi-ti-frames
I'd go for someone with belt drive building experience. titanium is flexible and belts don't tend to like that so it'd need to be done right.slightly off topic but why so few custom aluminium builders?
Speak to Triton bikes - they use Russian grade OT4 which is stiffer than 3/2.5 that is often used.
Speak to Triton bikes - they use Russian grade OT4 which is stiffer than 3/2.5 that is often used.
..not in any way that will make a jot of difference to the ride feel of a frame. 6/4 gets the stiffer + lighter sales pitch too, but the stiffness difference really is minimal and it's not lighter per se.
Anyway. MTG, my 2p - with your reputation... : ) I'd be buying a custom steel frame from a good builder; better good steel than cheap Ti. Especially if you want a belt drive.
I've seen a UK-made Ti frame that was so bad you'd be happy to buy Chinese.. Yet one of the Chinese builders mentioned here is a little way off what I'd call reputable, so 'buyer beware'. Good ti frames are not cheap, there's no way round that. Buy a cheap one from China and put aside the extra you would've spent to replace it if it cracks, as the warranty back-up isn't going to be easy logistically, even if they do consider it.
Triton's stuff looks good value and there's a long, satisfied customer thread on MTBR. Since the flaws in ti frames aren't something you can see, so you have to go on reputation and that's where the price usually goes up.
Personally, I'd call a UK builder about an 853 TIG welded frame. Will only be 3/4lb heavier than a suitable ti frame, maybe less if the ti is beefed up for belt drive and a strong high-mileage rider.
Skip the belt drive and open up your choices considerably.
(I put a question mark after that the first time, but on balance I decided it was better as a statement 😉 )
Surely what really matters considering your history of breaking frames is the warranty?
Seems like as long as you steer clear of American-made ones you'll be fine 😉