But I don't want a stealth axle

Probably not going to help but most stealth axles have an adapter available (to buy separately) that turns the stealth axle into one with a lever.

Yes to fitting QR to Fox 36. The axles have recently changed though, so be careful that you get the correct one. All the details are on the Fox website. Basically there's two boost fittings... one is for the floating dropout, one is for the older type.

Today I learnt that people correctly torque their front axles. I agree that it would be nice to go back to QR axles like the good old Maxle. If manufacturers are not going to give us the benefits of a QR axle then they might as well go back to proper bolt through axles with decent pinch bolts on both sides to give us the improved stiffness that earlier forks had. Currently we get the worst of both versions (not tool free and no increased stiffness)

For now I just keep an Allen key in the boot to quickly whip the stealth Maxle in and out of the forks. It’s even got the right size on the other end to do the rear non-QR axle

FWIW, I’ve seen far more broken/damaged QR axles over the years than hex ones. If you don’t swing off it I doubt you’ll ever have an issue

Today I learnt that people correctly torque their front axles.

+1

There's a few hex key options with detents/o-rings on them to retain them in the axle once done up. Otherwise mine just takes a 6mm allen key which is on my multitool anyway.

The rear is a PITA as it takes an 8m key. I keep meaning to replace it, but it's easier just to live in hope of never having to take the wheel off on a ride.

It’s got allen key bolt head rounding written all over it.

How do all the other bolts on your bike survive?

The rear is a PITA as it takes an 8m key. I keep meaning to replace it, but it’s easier just to live in hope of never having to take the wheel off on a ride

You need that little 6-8mm adapter which comes with some multitools, which you will almost certainly lose immediately.

Today I learnt that people correctly torque their front axles.

+2 !

I use this in the car. Its even cheap! but never come close to rounding anything.
(However, I do agree that QR levered axles are betterer)
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TOJWHEX3/jobsworth-triple-head-allen-key
£1.49! 😆

+3

I have a Ohlins, it's a 8mm hex fit only, and mine comes off every time I put the car on the roof. I've supposed to have been torqueing all this time?

You need that little 6-8mm adapter which comes with some multitools, which you will almost certainly lose immediately.

I've got 3 of those topeak tools in various saddle bags and backpacks, they're all missing the bit 😂

FWIW I swapped the QR Maxle to the stealth one because I figured it was harder to smash, and if I didn't have the multitool to fix something, then getting the wheel out was fairly pointless anyway.

I just got a new frame supplied with a "stealth" axle that you can't even do up by hand! What nonsense is this? Where there's like a fixed rotating washer under the bolt head that spins so you can't do it up?!

I understand your frustration, but as a risk limiting feature it's rather clever. If you can't even start to thread the axle without a tool, there is less chance of it being put in and not done up properly.

I've twice bought 'RS Ultimate' series forks and have both times had to buy a QR Maxle separately to replace the stealth ones.

If you can’t even start to thread the axle without a tool, there is less chance of it being put in and not done up properly.

Jeez. So it's another thing to help morons and piss the rest of us off. Gotcha.

By correct torquing i mean making sure it isn't slowly working its way loose. I have stealth axles on the rear of both my Cotic Jeht and Sonder Camino. The one on the Camino needs a bit of a grunt to stop it slowly undoing itself. Went down Jacobs Lader the other week and my mates front stealth on his new rockshox had started to unwind by the time we had go to the bottom. Being nervous about the front wheel is the last thing i want when clattering around the peak. So nervousness = torquing = grunt = bolt rounding.

I'm not a fan of stealth either so swapped it for a brand x axle with a lever, I think it was £13 so I wouldn't let that sway your decision on which forks to buy.

How tight are you people doing these axles up to round off the bolt!
I'd invest in a decent torque wrench, it'll pay for itself in new axles quite soon by the sound of it

I take my front wheel off loads, last thing I want is one of the crap RS or Fox QRs, they're fiddly and ugly, and the RS ones are always rounding and breaking

Bolt on axle, don't make it stupidly tight, job done.

I have a Ohlins, it’s a 8mm hex fit only, and mine comes off every time I put the car on the roof. I’ve supposed to have been torqueing all this time?

Wtf do you do to often put the car on the roof?

I just got a new frame supplied with a “stealth” axle that you can’t even do up by hand! What nonsense is this? Where there’s like a fixed rotating washer under the bolt head that spins so you can’t do it up?!

I have those and I don't see the issue at all. Far prefer the simplicity and security of stealth axles

How tight are you people doing these axles up to round off the bolt!

Maybe its an issue that doesnt exist then. But in my head the constant "on/off" of my front wheel a few times a week using an allen key and an aluminium bolt feels like the kind of thing thats going to wear over time and ultimately lead to rounding if not careful. Maybe not though. Its not an issue for other bolts as they are not constantly being undone and then done back up. I have a torque wrench so will be using that to prevent over-tightening but still.....

I have a torque wrench so will be using that to prevent over-tightening but still…..

I've a cheap one which lives in the car,
one of these (wiggle link) which is great for wheels, checking creaky stems etc.

I'd also go so far as to say its a problem that doesn't really exist. Otoh, rounding the collar on a lever maxle and rendering it useless and impossible to remove without no-way-ive-got-that-on-my-multitool tools? Yeah, that's very much a real problem.

@Rocketdog - to be fair, quite a few own brand axles are made of the softest cheese-like aluminium. Personally I’ve not rounded one off (probably broke more original Maxles than stealth style axles). But then I rarely remember where either of my torque wrenches are most of the time and just use either my Protools 3 way hex tool or a decent Allen key and go by feel

Wtf do you do to often put the car on the roof?

The debate about whether the car should be upside down while repairing punctures doesn't have many advocates on the 'turn it over' side but they are very committed.

I have a Ohlins, it’s a 8mm hex fit only, and mine comes off every time I put the car on the roof

Beaten to it above!!!!

When i bought my FOX 38's i could chose between a QR 15mm axle or a stealth axle

non-stealth maxels always used to round where the qr lever pushes on the thin metal edge of the cup whilst tightening/loosening it. I don't know if they've fixed that but imo stealth is preferable

you cant torque up a QR correctly either and you probably carry a multi tool so whats the issue?!

It’s got allen key bolt head rounding written all over it.

Recently changed the front axle on my wife’s Cannondale Topstone as that had started to get mangled, despite being very careful it didn’t like being removed multiple times to fit in a fork mount. Replaced with a Brand X one with lever.

Looking on the Topstone FB group it’s a common issue on the Cannondale axles.

Today I learnt that people correctly torque their front axles.

My torquing is done with a short Allen key to make sure I can get it undone again with a multi tool. It’s surprising how easy it is to “overtighten” them with a normal length Allen key.

you cant torque up a QR correctly either

But you can glance down and see its in the correct position and not slowly unwinding on a long descent.

I do the same and feel the same it's not caused any problems. I leave a quality 6mm in the boot of the car and the correct toque range can be achieved with practice, or a paint pen.

There's no need for precision in the torque, it's really not a thing to worry about- forks are basically a stack of solid spacers from that perspective so it needs to be pretty tight but not very tight, that's more than precise enough

non-stealth maxels always used to round where the qr lever pushes on the thin metal edge of the cup whilst tightening/loosening it. I don’t know if they’ve fixed that but imo stealth is preferable

That was the old style, it was fixed 5 ish years back.

they’re fiddly and ugly

Ugly? What weirdo notices such things?? 😆

With stealth axle bolts it tends to be not inserting the Allen key enough rather than force that rounds them off.

you cant torque up a QR correctly either and you probably carry a multi tool so whats the issue?!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This

But you can glance down and see its in the correct position and not slowly unwinding on a long descent.

Never had that with a decently done up hex one... on the other hand I've caught the flip handle (the answer to the rounded off old style RS) bit loads and had the thing loose.

There’s no need for precision in the torque

Especially given the QR ones you tighten by hand. But anyway, I just pinch it on the stealth and ive yet to have one undo, and while i might not be doing 'long descents' it is weeks or even months before i bother to check it.

The thing that makes me worry about QR is when its locked up some barstard will come along and easily nick my front wheel.

No way to do this without innuendo so might as well embrace it...

As long as you poke it in to its full stealthy depth before you twist it hard, it's pretty unlikely you're going to have it slip and go a funny shape.

Physics innit?

You’ve spent all day thinking up that one haven’t you?

Admittedly, I have been off work today...

There’s no need for precision in the torque,

I'd tend to disagree, otherwise why publish the correct torque to be used? Admittedly it's not torquing up the nuts on say an aircraft landing carriage but I'd kinda like my front wheel to be torqued up to the recommended value just for confidence and the fact I don't have any dental insurance

I never use a torque wrench on bicycles. Stuff doesn't come lose and doesn't seize. rocket dog - do yo torque them dry? Oiled? Greased? coppaslipped?

How often do you calibrate your torque wrench?

The axles I have with alloy hex sockets the socket is really deep - no chance of rounding. I also have one with the captive washer - its there to stop the tightening motion chewing up the dropout.

I’d tend to disagree, otherwise why publish the correct torque to be used?

But there is no correct torque published for QR, other than an unwritten 'Hand Tight'

I’d tend to disagree, otherwise why publish the correct torque to be used?

to stop muppets over tightening them?

Stealth axles usually have writing on the head so once torqued correctly just remember how it lines up, for example the B of my Burgtec one is at 2 o clock.
With QR everyone has a different definition of just right tight.

I’d tend to disagree, otherwise why publish the correct torque to be used?

to stop muppets over tightening them then expecting it warrantied, because moron isn't a manufacturing fault

FTFY

rOcKeTdOg
Full Member

I’d tend to disagree, otherwise why publish the correct torque to be used?

To stop people using a rattle gun. Or their pinkie. And to deal with warranty risks. Tons of stuff has torque settings recommended, it doesn't mean that it's essential to get them all precisely right.

What makes people think they are applying the correct torque with a quick release lever?
I get the convenience but actually the only way to accurately measure torque is with a torque wrench...if your into that...

I have these on my road bike. No issue so far other than that the conical split washer under the bolt head had fallen off in the box during shipping and I didn't realise it was needed. Tightening up without that washer crushed the bearings a bit so it had to be backed off which felt wrong until I compared it with the rear and realised the washer was missing. Fortunately I had not yet recycled the box!

But there is no correct torque published for QR, other than an unwritten ‘Hand Tight’

What makes people think they are applying the correct torque with a quick release lever?

Thru-axle QR and stealth axles work in different ways. The 'correct torque' for a thru-axle QR is just enough to remove any play - the pinch of the (correctly adjusted) cam is what stops it unwinding.

Do it up just tight enough so it's really bloody hard to close the lever, then ain't no way its working itself loose. Worked on 9mm QRs since the 80s so why should 12/15mm ones be any different 😀

(not completely serious, btw)

8mm one on my scandal rear end was a pain and a risk as my multitool at the time didn't have an 8mm key on it. Changed it for a ztto 6mm which was made of cream cheese. Now got a brand X ok one with a lever.

Overwise not hav a problem on my CX bike. Wheels off in the car for races and cleaning multiple times a week.

Given the choice I'd go for the Canyons ones though. Look a bit stealth as the lever tucks away nicely inside the axle. Best of both worlds.

I never torque anything though. Gentle, nip it up, firm, tight, put your back into it are my settings?

How tight are you people doing these axles up to round off the bolt!

Steel Allan key in a poorly fitting alloy hex socket will round. It's not just the torque. See Thomson stem bolts.

BTW these are standard use in QR hubs for aero gainz. Removing two QRs saves weight and a small Allan key in the pack is easy to carry.

ndthornton
Free Member

What makes people think they are applying the correct torque with a quick release lever?

Cammed quick releases are different to be fair, the small lever means you have to work very hard to cause any damage (unless it's one of the terrible rockshox rear maxles with the snappy levers) and the force isn't rotational, so it's hard to meaningfully overtorque. And the cam makes it less likely to come lose. In some ways it's a superior option, it's just that it's also bulkier and has more moving parts.