[Closed] Bulk chain oil

I started using squirt a few years back and it works for me

I used to be obsessive about drivetrain cleanliness - completely cleaning and re-lubing every ride (almost)

Now my boys ride with me every week and I just can't be bothered - better things to do

I just re-apply a bit of squirt when required and do a full clean when I can't see the chain

Not noticed any difference

To be honest, I think most of us overthink it. Just keep some form of lube on the chain. Most of the crud on a chain is on the side plates and does no harm

Nigh on 4 years ago I bought this little lot and divided it up with my riding buddies:[img] [/img]
I think we got 3/4 litre each for £11 .I got a bit extra being the dealer 😀 I'm only just running a bit low now so it's only cost me around £2.75 a year with fairly heavy usage .

[quote=Scienceofficer ]

in winter, the bike gets washed every 3 weeks

How much effort you need to spend cleaning and lubing your bike depends on the type of mud you get. So those who said 'I rode a million km last year and only lubed my bike once', they have the nice kind of mud.

To be honest, I think most of us overthink it. Just keep some form of lube on the chain.

For me, in a sandstone area, keeping lube on the chain is the hard part. My chain can be gritted to buggery (by which I mean making a griding sound as I pedal) in the wrong weather at the top of the first climb on my local loop. The challenge is to find something that will still have any trace left on the chain at the end of the ride. That's why we are putting thought into it.

FWIW I jetwash the chain until it no longer makes a gritty sound when I twist it in my fingers (jetwashing is the only way of achieving this for me. Shaking in a jar doesn't cos it re-circulates the grit; likewise a chain cleaner). Then I leave it to dry and lube with Shimano wet lube. That stuff is good enough that there's still a film on the chain after the jetwash, which prevents rust.

As way of comparison, I did around 7,000km last year

How many chains out of interest?

Fair enough molgrips.

Squirt works for me in the Chilterns as long as 'topped up'. Your conditions are different.

I guess you need something heavier - though that will lead to an inevitable build up of crud on the drivetrain

I never get crud buildup in the mud - it all gets washed or ground off before it has a chance to turn to black crud like it does on the road bike.

I've tried a fair few different things over the last 20-odd years, nothing really survives a really wet long ride. And topping up half way through seems a bit stupid when the whole thing is just full of wet gritty water.

You have much softer rock which absorbs water, so you don't get the wet surface paste that's the worst for chains (and brake pads). I'd imagine that you can't get much riding done there when it's been properly pissing down? Too gloopy?

Exactly that molgrips

My first ride on moving to the Chilterns was on my (then) rigid Kona Lava Dome.

Tyres so clagged up that they jammed in the seat & chain stays.

I don't ride much locally this time of year - just load the car and go to Swineley (35 mins) which holds up pretty well in the wet

Over here most of the stony tracks make a decent ride perfectly possible, but cos the rock is impermeable you get quite a bit of surface water. Cos the rock is hard, you get grit suspended in the water, so your bike is sprayed with grinding paste all the time.

As above, Putoline, nothing else comes close. Nothing else is even doing the same job! It's not for people who like their chains to look clean, though. But as long as you understand that looking clean doesn't mean anything, it's grand. Never found conditions it can't handle, sometimes it lasts longer, sometimes not so well but it always works.

TBH the cost of chainlube is pretty much an irrelevance in the grand scheme of bike spending so IMO the only thing that counts is hassle and effectiveness- which often means "does it work for the length of a ride". I use Epic Ride basically when I can't be arsed to do putoline, or when I'm away on a trip and relubing's required, a 240ml bottle is £7.49 and lasts a good long time, I spend much more on haribos. And I probably waste as much as I use.

(the commuter gets old engine oil from a wee squirty can, that's environmental. But ime plain oil is **** all use on a mountain bike, as is scottoil)

iainc - Member

I like Squirt but this time of year I find it has washed off in first 20 mins of ride.

Squirt just seems really situational- I used it for a couple of months and mostly it was great, then every so often it'd be incredibly awful. I never did work out what the pattern was, it wasn't just mud, it must have been particular soils or wetness or something. But it made me give up on it, anyway

I'm similar to molgrips. Sandy clay. It's not so bad as the Chilterns in that most of the time you can still ride in it, but as mol says, in the wrong weather, I can have a gritty chain after the first descent/climb, with added schlock so absorb any lube in record time.

It's asking alot of any lube really.

Also similarly to mol, my chain cleaning has evolved to blasting with a hose until it's not gritty, wiping with a rag and then re-lubing.

Northwind, do you mean used engine oil? Thats not very environmental.

TBH the cost of chainlube is pretty much an irrelevance in the grand scheme of bike spending

This ^^^^

Northwind, do you mean used engine oil? Thats not very environmental.

I think he means it's environmental because it's already there and his lube doesn't have to be manufactured and shipped to him etc. However it's also pretty bad directly because that amount he puts on his chain ends up in the environment, not being disposed of correctly.

Compared with drips and leaks from cars etc, that's all irrelevant tbh, I've dropped much more oil on the road from the scottoiler on my motorbike.

And yep, no shipping, no manufacturing, no packaging- I take something that's already at end of life and recycle it. No chain lube gets carried away by the oil fairies, it's no different when it ends up on the ground.

molgrips - Member

As way of comparison, I did around 7,000km last year

How many chains out of interest?

Blimey some of you guys are getting good chainlife,I'm getting through a chain every 5/6 weeks as they go beyond 75%.I'm guessing dirty higher torque draggy winter miles hurts them.

Yup, 3 weeks as I prefer not having the extra couple of pounds of caked on mud...it is washed down with just a hose, so it isn't a full clean, but the chain gets relubed with Squirt then.

Winter sees the roads covered in salt which does nasty things to the bike if left on it...I don't drive to every ride, so the bike sees enough salt and road grime to make a 'regular' hose down a sensible idea.

Unsure what the issue is, it is a 5 minute hose down, then I get myself cleaned up then I apply the Squirt...dead easy.

No chain lube gets carried away by the oil fairies, it's no different when it ends up on the ground

I use green oil's "slip". I like to think that it gets carried away by healthy, happy Fairies.

Also used in on the combination gate lock on the farm over a year ago as within a month it was starting to get a bit sticky. Didn't expect an eco lube to last so well but after an intial bit of residue coming out on fingers making it hard to turn the dials (kind of obvious when you lube a combination lock) and then going sticky the lock is still lovely and free. Not sure if that is a sign that it's not degrading or a sign that it has staying power on the inside of a metal lock where it's less likely to biodegrade.

As a matter of interest, how do you lot decide your chain is worn beyond use?

Chain checker, or doing it properly, 12" centre to centre?

And following on from this thread, i had a rummage through the workshop yesterday. I had 26 bottles of oil. Varying from only having the faintest smear round the inside (now in the recycling), to still sealed.
5 and 7 part used bottles of my wet and dry lubes of choice, now decanted into less (only have 6 bottles instead of 12!) Also 3 bottles of wax lube and another half dozen assorted bottles from various promotions/offers/random purchases. Mostly 3/4 or more full.

Then i found a 3 pack in another box, still wrapped. A part used bulk bottle (1L) on a high shelf, hadn't seen that for 4 or 5 years, and two bottles in the workstand box. Which i use every time a bike gets cleaned/serviced.
Oh, three bottles in the tool box as well.

Not to mention 5 bottles of DOT/mineral/LHM, three bottles of shock oil (different weights, so not all bad), three bottles of fox fluid, 5 bottles of stans "fluid" (one had been there ~3 years and had gone solid).

And 2 tubs of lithium grease, only one tube each of fibre grip and copperslip though.

Think i might need another tidy up in there.

Chain checker, or doing it properly, 12" centre to centre?

The chain checker measures the same thing, so both are 'properly'. However I'd suggest another metric. If you look at the chain as it comes over the cassette, as you push the pedal forward slightly with your hand, you can count how many sprocket teeth the chain is touching. Three or four means that you can change the chain and the cassette will probably still work, ime. Less and your cassette is toast.

Unsure what the issue is, it is a 5 minute hose down

Clearly easy for you, perhaps not for others. Maybe people don't have gardens, or even ground floor access; maybe there's a garden but no access to it so you have to change out of muddy clothes, go through the house, drape hoses and washers over the fence, go back out, hope your bike's still there, get buckets out of garage etc etc. Then there's cleaning of the patio and so on.

It's easy if you have a bike wash station ready set up, less so if not.

We used to stop off at the vet school (my friends were students there) on the way back from ride as they had a lovely hot outside tap/hose for washing down after being out on calls. Nice warm wash for the bike and us and then a quick blast home to dry it off.

Back at the flat I used to have buckets of water ready behind the gate. Couldn't risk leaving the bike for 30 seconds let alone time to fill a bucket.

Few points:

Area definitely matters, I live in Suffolk which is very sandy.

I tried Squirt, liked it initially but couldn't get a wet 100 from it when friends were doing fine on oil products.

I don't use engine oil because its cheap, I use it because it lubricates well, lasts well and isn't too dirty.

How long a chain last will depend on the design, I have 8 speed on the winter bike the chain and cassette are on at least their third year, probably outside the test but works fine. Its the best standard IMO.

I don't clean it very often, maybe once a month with a few rides a week.

[quote="Molgrips"]The chain checker measures the same thing,No, it really doesn't.
A "normal" chain checker doesn't measure pin to pin. It doubles up on the float in the rollers. And it's the pin to pin that determines pitch, so thats what you should measure.

And a 12" steel rule is usually cheaper than a chain checker, AND you can use it to measure things.

I've been using Stihl synthetic chainsaw oil in the Lakes for a decade now. Outperforms everything else within a wet ride. Non messy if you clean and re-apply after every ride. I feel your pain Tomaso!

Moving from near Edinburgh to the Cairngorms means a whole different soil type. I no longer have that heavy, clay stuff to deal with. It's now a finer sandy/granite compound that falls off easily when dried. In terms of bike wear, it seems that I've started to go through jockey wheels at an accelerated rate. They're not something I thought much about previously.

As for 8/9/10/11 speed, our hire fleet (50+ bikes) went from 8 to 9 speed last year. Chain and cassette life improved significantly.

As for 8/9/10/11 speed, our hire fleet (50+ bikes) went from 8 to 9 speed last year. Chain and cassette life improved significantly.

You must be using better quality components (you did check that everything else in the use/maintenance was the same?).

There's thick chainsaw oil and quite runny chainsaw oil - I prefer the latter in my chainsaw because I like to see it spray out onto the wood, so that I know it's doing the job.

Yup, perhaps the 'bike station' would be an awesome idea but there are ways to ease it...couple of buckets by the door as you leave or one of those pressurised greenfly portable hose things if you need a pressurised spray.

I don't have a bike station, I do have a space outside the house that I can hose the bike down...or throw a bucket of water over it if there is a chance of freezing.

Wasn't trying to sound tricked out for cleaning, just highlighting that for me, a bike clean is (at the most) a 5-minute job every 3 weeks, so is no hardship.

Would be different if it was thick claggy mud...but for me it isn't.

I'm highly tempted to construct a bike cleaning station.

Afternoon.

There is a massive difference between clean synthetic and mineral oils versus used oil, which is full of post combustion products, many of which a persistent and carcinogenic.

I take your point about drips and losses from cars, but that's generally confined to the urban environment where wastewater is generally combined and soil quality is cooked anyway. Using it off road introduces those contaminants to generally higher quality soils.

I generally need to wash my bike after every ride and apply something to stop the chain rusting when locked up. It is always wet in the Lakes. Riding through constant puddles and bogs just removes any lubrication from the chain.

A mate of mine carries out religious levels of the chain cleanliness and lubes his chain halfway round on a short ride.

How folk on here manage weeks between lubes is beyond me. But just like a thread about tyres, the environment you ride in means everything to what your needs are.

I may try some Stihl oil and see what its like and if I don't get on with it I will use it in the chainsaw. But I may just stick with my current cheap alternative at £3.75 a can.
[img] [/img]

cynic-al - Member

As for 8/9/10/11 speed, our hire fleet (50+ bikes) went from 8 to 9 speed last year. Chain and cassette life improved significantly.

You must be using better quality components (you did check that everything else in the use/maintenance was the same?).

Maintenance routine hasn't changed .

I'd guess that bottom end 8s chains are junk and bottom end 9s ones are OK.

Still running (decent) 8 speed here!

I dont think I would go out of the way to buy 8 speed now ( or if I even could). My theory thats its the most reliable is based on a) my personal experience comparing it to 9 and 10 on MTB and 10 and 11 on Road and b) its the biggest chain links and cog teeth.

Given everything else being equal I cant see why the newer stuff would be more reliable but you have a better sample size there so maybe it is.

[quote=cynic-al ]I'd guess that bottom end 8s chains are junk and bottom end 9s ones are OK.Could be. We always start with whatever the OEM chain is (the bikes have been Trek for the last couple of years). TBH, I was sort of expecting the 9 speed to wear quicker, so was a wee bit surprised.

so do you clean the chain before chucking it in the melted putoline or just chuck it in without?

I use cheap automatic transmission fluid as I had a load lying about - works well.

andymb - Member

so do you clean the chain before chucking it in the melted putoline or just chuck it in without?

I always clean mine- I don't like the idea of all that crap being left in the wax- but other people don't bother and seem to get on fine. I think I'm maybe just a wee bit anal about it but tbh it takes 5 minutes to deep-clean a chain when it's off the bike so it's not like it's any hardship

After listening to the wise ones on here I bought this

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portable-Electric-Hot-Plate-Hob-Kitchen-Slow-Cooker-Table-Top-Hotplate-New-2017-/381912871352?varId=650892308718&txnId=779322196025

And a tub of this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Automotive/Putoline-Boil-Chain-Wax-1Kg/B003K8NG1O

Cleaned the chain,which had previously been lubed with Squirt in white spirit, dropped in the hot wax with a wire through the last link bubbled a bit and then fished out and hung above the tin to drip dry. Once cool back on the bike.
First test was bikepacking at the weekend. I always fell guilty on day two if the chain is filthy and grinding. This weekend silent as new. Washed the bike off at home no new lube applied chain still silver/black on the pivots

I am a convert. I liked Squirt but it is too thin for Surrey hill slop IMOP.

There's thick chainsaw oil and quite runny chainsaw oil - I prefer the latter in my chainsaw because I like to see it spray out onto the wood, so that I know it's doing the job.

Agree with that, The stihl chain oil I got last year was definately thinner that the stihl oil I bought 2 or 3 years ago.

I also have some cheapo chainsaw oil that I'll try first thinned down with some white spirit as mentioned ^ there somewhere, cheers for that tip!

I also have some cheapo chainsaw oil that I'll try first thinned down with some white spirit as mentioned ^ there somewhere, cheers for that tip!

My pleasure! If you need to clean the chain then a couple of babywipes do the job. Get Johnsons not Huggies.

First test was bikepacking at the weekend. I always fell guilty on day two if the chain is filthy and grinding. This weekend silent as new.

Where did you ride?