[Closed] Budget hardtail

If it were me, I'd definitely fit a dropper post and go for the best forks I could afford. I don't know that Judys will be a huge improvement, I would look for Rebas or Suntour Epicons. The cheap Suntour forks aren't great, but their higher end stuff is respectable.

I would just stick with the existing drivetrain until it wears out. The cheaper Shimano stuff actually works really well, it's just a bit heavier than the expensive stuff.

Tyres are an easy way to get a big improvement, especially tubeless conversions.

When upgrading the components on a frame you might want to swap out later it's an idea to check what other better frames those same components will fit.

The thing is they're abit behind with the modern stuff so still got straight steerer & 9mm QR axle which limits me to Rockshox Judy (£160) Rockshox Recons (first choice at £230ish) or Manitou Markhor. I'm happy to upgrade the bike I just know most people think it's pointless. I would have got the Microshift Advent 1x9 wide range groupset as it's meant to be decent with a clutch & only around £100 for the lot but I literally can't find it anywhere to buy or get delivered to the UK.

I'd love a Ribble HT 725 but I won't be spending a few grand on a bike for years yet, got more important things to buy for the new house so I just thought upgrading the budget bike would surely make it much better than stock? I'll stick a pic below 👍🏻

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I wouldn’t get too hung up on what people think of the brand / bike etc. If you like it and it works for you, then enjoy!

The upgrades you’ve planned sound sensible. In the current situation waiting times for new bikes is huge in many cases so adds even more support to the route you have taken.

Play around with stuff like tyre pressures too as that changes the way a bike feels imho.

Although you say it is straight steerer, I'd be very surprised if a bike bought 6 months ago with 27.5 wheels didn't have a 44mm headtube which allows fitting of a tapered steerer fork (with a different headset). Worth investigating. That would open up more fork options - though QR is still a limiting factor. I'd say look at changing at the wheels, but better fork, wheelset, dropper...you are definitely in the realms of upgrading to a different bike being a better option.

I’d try to get recons rather than the Judys - if you can get a recon gold in straight steerer / qr that’s not a bad fork. My mate recently picked up a recon silver from bikester (I think) in straight steerer / qr for an old Mona and apparently it’s not too bad at all.

Suntour epicon/ epixon are sometimes available in straight steerer / qr too - or even a raidon. Much better than the non damped xcr / Xct/ Xcm rubbish you get on cheap bikes.

Not sure how much benefit you’ll get from 1x9 as I don’t think you can get a decent wide range cassette or clutch mech. Better to try and find 10 speed and get a decent range - at the minimum an 11-42 cassette.

Dropper post would be the biggest single difference you can make I think - followed by tyres and the fork.

The carrera frames aren’t amazing, but equally they’re alright for what they are. Apollo are the Halfords bikes to do a big swerve around.

Yeah I wouldn't touch an Apollo though the missus has one for rides through the park with the kids on paths 😂

Rockshox Recon silver can be bought new for about £230 with the low speed compression adjustment, I thought Judy's because they're only £160 but have 30mm stanchions & not much adjustment options just lock out pretty much. I looked at Suntour Epixons but they're the same price as Recons so thought I'd be better with those for same price. I have seen the Nukeproof bottom cups that would allow tapered steerer but all the better forks aren't 9mm QR so no point.

Tbh I never really use the second cog upfront anyway so I think 1x9 would do me fine & allows me to fit a dropper. I'll likely stick with Rockshox Recons, Specialized Butcher & Eliminator tyres, Brand X dropper & some 35mm riser bars than get the most out of it for a few years 🤙🏻

I don't think anyone is going to give you a hard time on here for buying a Carerra. Voodoo and Boardman are often touted as being great VFM bikes.

As others have said be mindful of what the ceiling is on that bike, 1 1/8th straight steerer and QR is going to limit you to lower end forks (as you note). You might be able to get a tapered fork in there but that's still another £25 min on a new headset. Going tapered probably wouldn't be compatible with 9mm QR either (would probably need a new front wheel - another ~£100).

You say spending £250-£300 on upgrading but are you going to get:
- forks
- cranks
- tyres
- bars
- dropper

for less than £300? surely if buying new you're looking at £400 or £500 at least. The second hand bike market is pretty buoyant right now, are you better off looking at what you could sell the current bike for and buying something slightly higher spec instead?

Something like this, Sonder Transmitter. Would probably want to splash another £130 on a dropper on top of that.

I'm not saying the upgrades are pointless and the bike is somehow flawed. I'm sure you'll have fun on the bike (upgraded or not). Just that with what you're proposing you'll potentially end up walking into unexpected costs and for similar money you could end up with something better spec/more future proof.

After having a quick look on pinkbike I found this:

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/3042762/

With minimal use.

As others have said I would wait until your current drivetrain wears out and then convert to shimano 1x10 11-42 with a 30 on the front and that will give you enough range to climb up most hills. Also probably one of the cheapest drivetrain options.

Yeah Mat I know what you mean, I mainly got the bike to go ride with the missus & kids then realised when I went out alone how much I used to love riding & have kinda fallen in love with it again. I don't think I'd ever get to bike parks or anything 'hardcore' so it'll likely be local light trails & treks through the woods for me but the current fork is terrible so I would have upgraded that anyway I just thought I'd make the most of it seen as I won't be getting anything better for a few years.

Depends what exactly I get but..

Rockshox Judy - £160 or Recon - £230(ish)
Specialized Butcher/ Eliminator are currently £27.50 each so £55
Prowheel single crank I already bought was like £40
BBB Skybar riser bars are around £30
Dropper post (only a maybe atm) cheap Satori Pro about £70 or Brand X like £120ish

So looking at around £250-315 depending on forks without the dropper but that's only a maybe at the moment anyway. Already got the cranks & some TAG Braap grips, the standard metal pedals are fine for me they don't slip or anything but yeah I know what you mean I don't wanna spend loads so it's kinda like 'budget' upgrades that will make improvements without going crazy.

I'd love a Sonder Transmitter, Ribble HT, Nukeproof Scout or Commencal Meta but I'm quite happy to upgrade this for cheap & make the most of it seen as it's been a long time I've had a bike so might aswell rag this a few years first.

It’s probably worth those few upgrades you are planning. You’ve already got the bike and the weather has improved so just get out and ride it.

My mate from work has done similar with a Marin Bobcat trail he picked up in Jan. he’s already got proper tyres for it on my suggestion and I’m working on him to get a dropper. The fork is some awful low end Suntour that supposedly has 120mm travel - but at best it’s giving up 80mm of that (and he’s 6’1 and I’d guess 13-14 stone).

I still think a dropper is a better upgrade than almost anything else as getting the saddle out the way downhill or on fun corners makes such a difference. Brand X is decent.

Yeah Joe I'll probably stick with those, should improve the bike somewhat those stock forks are poor.. Same as on the bobcat I think. Actually like those wish I'd got one of those back then instead but anyway the Carreras a half decent budget bike for what I'll be using it for so might aswell make the most of it & have some fun in the woods 😀

My son's bike run 11-42 with a 9 speed using a ebay roadlink, works fine. cheap way of going 1x. You can get the cassette from Decathlon for £20. If you hang on I'm breaking down one of the kids bikes soon I'll send you the cassette and link for the postage to see if you can get it to work.

Yeah I've seen a 11-42 cassette for £20 at Decathlon but my derailleur is only meant for 11-36 like mine so didn't think it would work. They all the Microshift Advent drivetrain single bits at Decathlon like Advent 9 speed derailleur, shifter & cassette which would give me 11-42 range but would be another £100 added on or when my current drivetrain has had its use. I think I'll be ok with the current 11-36 though as I've not really needed more so far but thanks very much for the offer!

For me the main advantages of 1x are not losing the chain - so the clutch mech and narrow wide chainring. Plus losing the left hand lever so a dropper remote can go there. If you aren’t using a clutch mech at least make sure you have a decent narrow wide chainring - and a cheapie eBay top chain guide is probably worth getting.

When someone suggested the 11-42 9 speed cassette from decathlon they mentioned an eBay road link. That’s a small mech hanger extension that often lets your mech stretch to a slightly bigger cassette - you could always keep this option as a backup if 11-36 isn’t enough. Also Google ‘goat link’ which is the same thing.

I found my mate the bobcat trail in the nice bright blue - the Vitus Nucleus was first choice as it would have come 1x a s with an air fork but it was out of stock for months.

My 2p...

I had an old carrera, back when they really were stuck in the 80s geometry wise, the new ones dont look half as bad.

That said, the most important bit is the frame. Look at things like Stooge, rigid frame, often built as singlespeeds, still a very good bike. There's limited point in upgrading one that's good, but likely to be the limiting factor once you've spent money on it.

By the end mine had mavic wheels and hope brakes, taperwall bars and a load of other stuff. It didn't make the frame any better though.

If it were me, I'd ride it till something breaks then replace that part. Put the money you would have spent on it to one side and keep an eye on the classifides for whatever you fancy. In the end I bought a 456 (which at the time was a massive upgrade).

I’d just ride it hard and upgrade as you break stuff, and wait for second hand bits to come up on here. I’ve built some great bikes this way. Dropper is different, I’d just get it as soon as you can.
Tyres as well- often great deals at planet x

Forks would be good, but maybe you shouldn't buy them just yet. I'll tell you for why: they'll improve the ride, but if you can't move them across to your next bike, you'll have to go cheap(er) and buy twice. Good wheels and tyres will really improve things as well, however, and you can often move them across to a new ride. A dropper will let you ride more confidently on steeper things. I've consider those two first, as you'll be able to use them on other bikes.

* You can get a 2x lever for a dropper that allows you to run it with a front shifter. Ask around here, and you may find someone who has one in a drawer somewhere. I've just gone in with one of my kids on a brand-x dropper for his bike, and it comes with ">this lever. At some point he may spend his pocket money on a ZTTO lever from ebay - you can do the same if you get rid of your front mech. The Vulcan seems to have a 31.6mm seatpost, wo you should be able to move whatever post you get on to whatever you might buy next.

* Wheels and tyres might be the way to go, rather than forks. I say this because, if you do want to swap out the frame eventually, it's sensible to stick all the old stuff back on and sell it, and move your fancy new kit to the new frame If you buy sensibly, you can get a wheelset that has hubs that can upgrade to newer standards. For example: I've got a Hope Pro 2 wheelset that's a bit trigger's broom (new rims etc) but has followed me across four bikes. It started as non-boost QR, then front thru-axle, then rear thru as well, then boost front, non boost thru rear. I can probably run it on my boost front and rear bike now - I just need to buy adapters, which are cheap - especially second hand. It means I'm not on the latest, greatest standard with these wheels, but they've also given me a great return on my initial spending back in, ooh, 2012 or so. They've taken a pasting, but I've also taken care of them, so they last well. Looking at the spec on the Halfords website, you could buy something like a Hope boost rear and non-boost front, and find the adapters to convert the rear to the 141 boost qr standard the frame seems to use.

Last thing? Everyone starts somewhere - or restarts. And remember: are you in this for the bicycle riding or the shopping?*

*Secretly, many of us are also in this for the shopping. Don't judge.

Whereabouts are you OP? I've got a 15mm bolt through front wheel you can have for nowt if it broadens your choice of fork 🙂

Forks would be good, but maybe you shouldn’t buy them just yet. I’ll tell you for why: they’ll improve the ride, but if you can’t move them across to your next bike

Sure, you can. Fitting a straight steerer fork into a tapered head tube just requires the correct lower bearings or crown race adapter. Fitting a 15mm hub into a 9mm dropout fork also just requires an adapter.

Cheers for the input bentudder, I didn't really think about the wheels tbh & I've not really considered that the parts I buy whether I could move them over to another bike or not in the future. I thought my best bet would be spend around £300 over the space of say 3 months buying a part at a time & kinda already had in my head that any parts I can't carry over to a newer bike in the future (due to the Carrera being a little outdated with the old style QR axle, straight steerer etc) that I'd just sell the forks as there will likely still be the odd folks around who are riding older style bikes then the bike I eventually get in say 3 years time would hopefully be good enough spec wise that forks etc would already be decent.

I know what you're saying though but I just think with Carrera not being up-to-date on stuff it would be more hassle, I kinda just wanted to upgrade a few parts & end up with a cheap bike that has better than standard stuff like air forks, dropper post etc.

Tbh it was kind of an impulse buy with covid lockdown making most people want bikes, difference is I had a genuine love for bikes as a teenager as I was a skater/BMX/MTB/rollerblade kid for a long time so it brought that back when I first when out alone for a ride in the woods & had I put more thought into it at the time I should have got something a bit better off the bat such as Vitus Nucleus, Marin Bobcat Trail 3 etc.

I do kinda like the Carrera though it's a nice colour & they have definitely made 'improvements' to the previous model with the updated geometry. They have lifetime frame warranty too if that makes a difference? So yeah I just kinda want to improve a few bits without spending too much 🙂

It looks like a 44mm head tube, so if it is then it’ll take a tapered steerer fork if you replace the lower half of the headset with an external one. But good forks are bloody expensive, especially right now. I’d get a dropper, better tyres, go tubeless and ride it lots before changing much else.

MBR said nice things about the Vulcan back in 2019:

https://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/hardtail/carrera-vulcan

...but! They seemed to like the component choice, and feel the frame was a bit too small. And sadly the latter is the thing you won't fix by switching parts, and the former is the benefit you'll not realize by switching parts.

I wouldn't say "don't do it" -- if you like the bike and want to keep riding it, then why not upgrade it? But do try to keep an eye on future compatibility of parts, as others have said.

Personally, if it were me I think my priorities would be dropper first, then maybe handlebar if the current bar isn't nice for you. Then maybe fork if I felt I was really being limited by it. Drivetrain I'd replace as it wears out: 1x is a Good Thing IMO, but it's best with a clutch mech and narrow-wide ring. Speaking as someone who has run 1x9 and 1x10 with bodged parts, I wouldn't especially rush to get rid of your current working setup. I liked my bodged setups from an aesthetic perspective, but my 1x11 with a clutch mech has the immense benefit of (relative) silence, and that's where it pays off massively for me, especially if you're not expecting to bomb down terrain which will be regularly throwing your chain off with the triple setup.

Last but not least, I also liked the look of the Microshift Advent 1x9 "groupset": I found it for sale (apparently in stock!) here:

https://kidsracing.co.uk/search?page=1&q=%2Amicroshift%2A&type=product

Be aware there are two mech options: a cheapie one with no clutch, and a more expensive one with a clutch.

I was really tempted by this setup in the past, but the fact that the bits are very hard to find pushed me toward a Shimano setup in the end.

Anyway, welcome back to bicycles 🙂

If it were me I'd be looking at the things that are really holding back your riding whilst at the same time minimising outlay.

You might end up throwing c. £300 at the bike and then very quickly realising that you want something a bit more capable. You'll be unlikely might not see much of that back, esp. if you're fitting parts that aren't the most up-to-date standards. To that extent I'd be looking at limiting the upgrades now to a cheap-as-chips dropper and good tyres, and throwing on the new crankset that you've already bought to change it to a 1x setup (have a think about gearing and the sort of terrain you're riding though, as you won't have a wide-range cassette at the back. I'd imagine a 28t chainring would be the way to go unless you want to buy a new cassette).

You'll (probably) always be able to make use of tyres, and having a dropper will make a huge difference to the sort of terrain you can ride. You're right, your fork's probably not great, but it's probably not that much worse than a £200 Judy/Recon.

Then just thrash the arse off it through the summer, punish it though the winter, put the money saved in the piggy bank and plan to sell the Carrera in the new year and replace with whatever takes your fancy so you can hit the trails in 2021 like a boss.

...or 2022

You’re right, your fork’s probably not great, but it’s probably not that much worse than a £200 Judy/Recon.

Honestly - some of those bottom end sun tours are pretty awful things vs a Recon. Bendy / Noodly and you can’t get anywhere near using the travel quotes on them. My mates is using at best 80mm of 120mm quotes travel - probably less. What you can use is undamped and the fork sealing is dire. The Recon Gold on my Newphews bike is a massive upgrade.

That said I still think dropper / tyres are the best bang for buck followed by the fork. I don’t think the drivetrain is a priority really.

The thing is they’re abit behind with the modern stuff so still got straight steerer & 9mm QR axle which limits me to Rockshox Judy (£160) Rockshox Recons (first choice at £230ish)

Suntour epixon air forks are worth a look, or the cheaper Suntour Raidon. I belive new model suntour XCR now are also air forks.

That's basically what I did, I had a 'crap' carrera vengeance, 3X8 SRAM X3 (EURGH!) and crappy suntour xcm.

but I had a good 1000 miles out of it. it toaught me a lot about maintenence and it wasn't a bad bike, reletivley speaking.

I Upgraded the forks to epixons, the gears to SRAMx9 3x9, and eventually upgraded the frame to a cube XC frame with a ZS44 head tube, and fitted some better brakes.

People seem to ignore suntour forks as the X** series forks are budget items fitted as stock to save on cost. The Epixons and raidons are actually pretty good.

1x is a Good Thing IMO

For me 1x is a bad thing, too limited at the higher end, but I do a lot of miles on bridalways/ canal, but also want the option of moderatly rough stuff...so I can run out of gears quite easily. 3x9 works really well for me, but it depends on your riding habits.

OP if your headtube is ZS44, you can fit either straight or tapered sterer forks, with a new headest, or possibly just replace the bottom part of a headset.

I'm not sure how to tag people in the replies haha but..

Tomparkin - Thanks for the input! I do have a narrow/wide chain ring on the new crank which I'll be fitting when I sort a better bottom bracket tool out, but obviously my Altus derailleur is without a clutch so a cheap chain guard would maybe be needed? I have seen a few decent reviews for the Vulcan considering it's a cheap bike at around £400 & the 2019 model was before they updated the geometry (I think the last time they updated it before this was like 2012 or something so it was due) & I think the medium size frame feels fine to me, not like I'd know otherwise though but maybe they improved the issues with the sizing I'm not sure & they apparently made the frame 'stronger'. I could maybe down the line get the Microshift Advent wide range groupset for around £100 IF I decided the bike would last me a while & my capabilities weren't exceeding the bikes ability, it's meant to be a pretty good groupset for the price too.

rockandrollmark - The Judy Gold is apparently a decent fork but thats like £330(!) so I wouldn't stretch that far & I've seen the Recon comes on a few bikes over the £1k mark now I know a fair few might upgrade that fork I kinda thought a 'low end' fork on a decent bike would likely be a fairly good fork for a budget bike? The Recon silver has the Motion Control damping unlike the Judy Silver which just has the Turn key on/off so I'd likely stretch to that plus the stanchions are slightly beefier at 32mm over the 30mm Judy. I think you're right though I've heard lots of people say a dropper post is a game changer & along with decent tyres I agree those should probably be the first purchases!

mattyfez - I originally wanted the Epixons but all the new ones I found were similar priced or more than the Rockshox Recons so I assumed the Rockshox would be slightly better for the same price. I'll have a good look around though as I've heard the Epixons & Raidons are decent budget forks 🙂

Epixons and motion control recons are probably much of a muchness. I’d just go for whichever are cheapest. If the recon you’re looking at has steel stanchions instead of alloy then the Epixpns are probably lighter as I’m sure they have alloy stanchions. I think they also have 32mm stanchions.

I’d skip the Judy range with their 30mm stanchions - they can be a bit noodly - especially if you’re quite heavy. I’m about 81kgs and 32mm stanchions are where I’d start with buying a fork.

People have said above that the headtube is 44mm rather than straight 1 1/8th. I can’t find any evidence of this (maybe I’ve just not found the right bike review that references it). If it is 44mm then you aren’t restricted to straight steerer tubes - you could go with a tapered one (you’d need an external bearing lower bottom bracket cup if you go tapered). Only downside to that is most tapered forks are probably going to have a 15mm bolt through axle so you’d need a new front wheel and then costs spiral out of control.

So I’d stick to a straight steerer / 9mm qr and not go too bonkers on costs. The recon you mention or equivalently priced epixon would both give you a jump in performance for not too much £££.

The whole piece around buying parts you could look to move to another bike in due course might be a red herring with the bike you’ve got as it’s got qr wheels / possibly a straight steerer etc. Better to do a few choice upgrades to keep you happy for a few years then just buy a totally new bike that hits all the current standards at that point. Just in my opinion.

Rockshox Recons so I assumed the Rockshox would be slightly better for the same price. I’ll have a good look around though as I’ve heard the Epixons & Raidons are decent budget forks 🙂

Prices are all over the place now for obvious reasons, but when I bought my epixon, it was basically a toss up between that and a reba(rekon?) i get confused.. TK something or other.

My LBS reccomended the Epixon, and a few people on here reccomended the epixon..

I dont regret my choice, the fork works really well, for a QR fork (you can get them for through axles too). It's a basic air fork with magnesium alloy lowers so it's pretty light.

Epixons and motion control recons are probably much of a muchness. I’d just go for whichever are cheapest. If the recon you’re looking at has steel stanchions instead of alloy then the Epixpns are probably lighter as I’m sure they have alloy stanchions. I think they also have 32mm stanchions.

I haven't tried Recons except for some old coil sprung first generation ones with U-Turn. I've used Dual Air and Solo air 32mm RockShox forks (Rebas and Revelations), plus I have some Epicons on my hack bike. The Rebas are a better fork, but not by much. The Epicons are pretty decent value for money, I imagine they would perform similarly to a Recon Gold and be better than Judys.

The Epicons

You mean epixons? sorry to be a pedant, but epicons are the old name for the same sereies of fork, if that makes sense. So anything called epicon is very old.

Epixons and epicons are broadly the same fork. I think Suntour ran into a copyright or trademark issue with ‘epixon’ so changed to ‘epixon’. That was maybe 3 years ago or so - so epicons can’t be massively old.

Suntour list them on the same webpage.

https://www.srsuntour.com/service/download-area/consumer-downloads/bike/exploded-views/suspension-fork/epixonepicon/

Joebristol - You're right the Recons are steel uppers & I think it said come in around 2.4kg so might be better looking at the Epixons which I think are around the same price anyway & look pretty nice too. It's definitely straight steerer 1 1/8th so I know I'm already limited to just a few options but at least the options I have aren't too expensive along with the fact I can only have 9mm QR forks.

That's it mate I know I won't be getting another bike for a few years yet & I fairly like this one so I'll get a few decent upgrades every now & then which should make it a little more capable for me to get some good use on.

Joebristol - Is this the goat link thing you were on about?

I’m not sure if that is a genuine goat link or a cheap ripoff. All it is, I a a hanger extender to give you the reach on the mech for the bigger maximum cog. Genuine Wolftooth goat link is about £30. eBay ripoffs that broadly do the same job are £10 or less I think. I’ve never run one as the only time I ‘stretched’ a mechs capacity was Sram x9 and Gx 10 speed when I ran them with an 11-42 Sunrace cassette. It worked with both without a hanger extender.