Grass roots doesn't have to mean clunky

The sooner people stop putting up with sub standard products because it's British the better

That is a general statement not one just relating to this frame

The sooner people stop putting up with sub standard products because it's British the better

please define!!!

FWIW as a previous owner of a LARGE downhill bike build in a car garage im all for out there in shed built designed bikes - it rode well , was slack low and plush as owt without bobbing like a badun

shame it just couldnt hold its self together - but it certainly had no calcs done.

edit - scratch that. those that know me know the jackanory

I've had a fairly peppered history with breaking bikes intended for hard use too...

> Specialized M2 hardtail (the ones the MBUK guys were messing around on in the late 90s as jump bikes) - unexpected headtube separation...
> Old Sunn DH bike - snapped two back ends, cracked front end
> Coyote DH2 - cracked
> Orange Zero trials frame - cracked
> Pashley trials frame - snapped, welded, snapped again
> Rocket trials frame - snapped one, cracked another
> Schwinn 4 banger - cracked
> Schwinn Straight 6 - cracked a bit - still in use
> Ellsworth Dare - cracked gussets - carried on using

Which is another reason I like UK builders cos at least you can get them fixed easily!

I remember watching Burf racing a few times, he's fast and a nice guy, I was chatting to him at Aston a few months back looking at the belter frame (surprisingly light for what it is).

Personally I like the frames and considering the variations on geometry for the stock sizes, let alone the custom options they actually are reasonable VFM, still too pricey for me but if I could afford it I'd buy one over a number of other brands.

I do love it when the STW armchair frame building experts get going. Some of you lot don't half blow out your arses...

a new custom built front end mated to the rear end of my old Schwinn straight 6 so that I can keep my lawwill back end that I love so much but with a new re-designed front end with more modern geometry.

You sir have fine taste. Sounds like an awesome idea. Please share it on here when done.

I like it. Reminds me of a metal head .

compositepro - please define!!!

cookeaa - I do love it when the STW armchair frame building experts get going. Some of you lot don't half blow out your arses...

Yeah, they've built sheds and stuff. 😉

Some of the "armchair engineers" on here have been involved in a lot bigger projects than designing & building a bike frame.

And some of them haven't, the problem is it's really hard to tell over the internet...and in the absence of any evidence that they know anything about building bikes other than a few throwaway comments it's hard to place any faith in them.

Also could have made a joke about their involvement still not being any proof they know what they're talking about, but don't want to turn this thread into an Engineers willy waving contest.

I think it looks ace. The kids will be on beans for a few weeks cos I'm having one. Yellow I think. 🙂

Go Joe!

Joe did you manage to get more work ok ?

Yup, I'm working my socks off. Got weekends free for riding and I'm home by 5 most nights. Life is good. Not fixing bikes but I'm actually loving riding more for it. Been building a pretty cool trail on some local ground too. Should be ready to ride my shiny yellow ranger on in the spring. 😉

the podge- Many people seem to consider a product's place of manufacture more important than its quality.

thought you were going to bring up dyson vacuum cleaners...my brain = mysterious sad dark place

Haha, my vac cost thirty quid & does the job. No idea where its from

for those that were interested here are the latest pics now the new front end is built and painted.

Will be sure to post some pics up once built and report on ride too! (and no that isn't the shock I'm going to be using...)

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Check them out on [url= http://www.facebook.com/BTR.Fabrications ]Face Book[/url] or their webpage if you want more info.

Matt

That is awesome. Well done for going down your own road.

I meant to edit that so it read better but I really do think that is brilliant. Looking forward to hearing how you get on with riding it. Be justifiably proud as commisioner (and builder BTR)...I'd like to think Mert would approve; and it's an awesome piece of upcycling.

My eyes hurt.

Sorry but if I wanted something different that was welded in a shed I'd buy an ancillotti. That ain't gonna sell well anytime soon.

Fun looking project though and kudos for building a full susser yourself.

The sooner people stop putting up with sub standard products because it's British the better

That is a general statement not one just relating to this frame

so you've ridden it then? stuffed it into some rocks? you must have, to define it as substandard.

@bwaarp - you don't have to like the way it looks 😉

I was always treating this as a project, a new modern shaped front end for my favourite rear end of all time was the goal, and I'm well chuffed with the result.

Aesthetically it won't be to a lot of people's tastes, but then I'm not a fan of the way a lot of modern bikes look and I think it fits well wit the retro-rebuild concept.

Will definitely report back after build and ride as that's obviously the most important bit, how it rides!

Looks Great 😀

Impressed here ... Not an easy job to do at all. I like the way it looks, very 'function over fashion'.

well... it's bike shaped!

Will take for a proper shake down cruise at the weekend but from a quick play on the jumps in the park it is a total hooligan!

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Still need to play a bout a bit and make a few small adjustments here and there (like cutting the steerer for starters).

that's completely brilliant.

Think it looks absolutely ace.

Is that the ladies frame with a dropped top tube ?

Can you tell us a bit more about it? Geometry? Rear swing arm? travel?

Looks like it would be a riot to ride 😀

Is that the ladies frame with a dropped top tube ?

🙂 cheeky! I'm just a short arse and like the standover

I'll do a full write up after I've had some ride time on it, but a bit more info...

Geometry wise at the moment:

66deg HA
75deg effective SA
330mm BB height in current config
1127mm Wheelbase (432mm chainstays)
134mm travel with 50mm stroke shock using 150mm i2i
695mm FC
100mm HT
400mm reach
563mm stack
518mm TT
551mm effective TT

It's a Lawwill back end lifted off a Schwinn straight 6, very flat rate and incredibly active back ends, they can be a bit bobby until you are used to them but soaks up a lot more than it should for the travel.

The shock is mounted on a trunnion so there is a fair bit of adjustment in effective i2i so you can alter HA/SA/Wheelbase, it also can run shocks with stroke from 38mm to 57mm so there are travel options from 100mm to 150mm

Currently using Fox 36s dropped to 130mm, but will be playing around with a few different travel options until I'm happy, although I probably won't be running anything over 140mm at the front I think...

The goal was basically to take everything I loved about Schwinn Straight 6 and 4 Bangers, and fix a couple of the niggles I've had over the years with them, like needing a bit more room in the front, and a slacker head angle, and to end up with a nicely sorted bike for ragging round the woods for a few hours and having a lot of fun with, tough like and AM/mini DH bike but without all the travel.

I've still got another S6 fully built so will be doing some back to back rides as well to compare.

I'll do some proper pics in daylight as well as the shock tunnel area really is brilliant, very impressed with what BTR have done!

Pure sex that 8)

This is an absolutely brilliant idea, I might inquire about a new front triangle for my old enduro.

I love that bike! It looked pretty odd as a bare frame with the carbon fibre back end and steel front triangle but built up it looks awesome! And the geometry is very appealing.

Well it'll get its first proper outing in the woods tomorrow so will see how it handles 😉

That looks proper awesome. Looking forwards to your first ride review...

that looks fun!

the shock attachment had me wondering if you had missed a bolt out for a minute though.

Saddles too low and the wheels are too small 😉

well, have taken it for it's first proper ride now and have to give it a big thumbs up, it is flippin' quick and very playful!

For the first 20mins or so I was thinking it was feeling a bit short and could have done with an extra inch in the top tube/on the wheelbase but as soon as I got it into the twisty rooty tight steep stuff we have here it was absolutely spot on, it is really really nimble and the centre of gravity is really low, it feels like the entire weight of the bike is in the bottom bracket, it's really really planted and very very stable in the air.

Standover height is huge, works really well when steering with your knees in turns and a lot more leeway for bailing on steeper bits!

There's a little more flex in the front end than the old Schwinn frame but it actually works really well, especially with a big bolt through fork, if you smack it through a rock garden at full tilt the fork stays on line and the back kind of wiggles it's way through a bit instead of getting deflected off, makes it a very smooth ride and it carries the speed really well and it's not enough flex that it loses it's line, just enough.

Probably going to put an extra 10mm travel back into the forks and wind the trunnion up a little to take the BB up 1/2 inch or so as I was smacking my pedals a bit too often, but then I'm running 175 cranks on it and I normally use 170s so crank swap might be in order.

It seems to have kept all the good traits of the backend too, soaks up more things than it should for the amount of travel, has ludicrous amounts of grip when peddling back up loose and rooty climbs too, and is totally planted on the way down too, and will still slide the back end out in a controlled way if you weight the outside pedal and give it a little kick so very happy there, pivots have moved slightly compared to the old frame and consequently it ramps up a tiny bit more towards the end of the travel than it used.

Has come in at a smidge over 31 lbs, which is not bad and only about 1/2 lb heaver than the old Schwinn. Scope to lose some of that too as It has a hefty old Mavic 325 (700g!) rim on the front and the 2.4 Advantage is not a light tyre but I'm happy with the weight anyway, especially given where it's CofG is it's not that noticeable handling wise.

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Genuinely the most interesting thing I've seen on here in ages. Lawwill rear ends FTW.

Lawwill rear ends FTW

aye, they're an acquired taste but there's something about them that gets you hooked!