Seeing as only Brant's bikes are allowed here when we talk about VFM, may I ask for a fatbike please? I'm sure there's be a fair few here that'd buy one.
For Christmas 2011 please!
Asked already and unlikely to happen this year for various reasons. That was early January so who knows ?
I'd love a fat version of the Scandal. When I ran it with a fat front it was great.
I even toyed with the idea of doing a chop job on it, but bought a Pug instead.
I would buy one they look a hoot
+1
epi, get Brant on one of yours, he'll get hooked. We'll have a Ragley Beefer.
Shaggy (just back from idita) and brant have been discussing this on twitter
It did sound like brant was planning a fatbike in time for the next idita.
+1
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Brant getting rad on Jonclimber's mukluk.
didn't the guy from Genesis say they had plans for a fat bike last time this topic came up?
was there a loud [b]BOING!!![/b] followed by Brant being launched into the nearest tree after that pic?
Jonclimber already did that coming up short on a step down-concussion and broken ribs iirc.
Ragley Biffer?
Ragley Bully. Cos it's bigger than the other boys, innit.
What would you have Brant offer in a frame that you can't already buy from the number of other fat bike frame manufacturers ??
+1
With short chainstays please.
I imagine brants would be cheaper than a mukluk 🙂
Frames are generally not the expense.. its the wide rims.. rear hubs (if not offset frame)... Tyres etc..
Think the Mukluk represents very good value for money.
what about a ragley 29er (other than the TD1) ?
I see the latest niche bandwagon is gathering pace - singlespeed just isn't niche enough any more is it.
😆
@grum, as soon as Brant says yey I'll be asking for a singlespeed fat 29er, watch this space 😀
Yeah I can't really see this being a viable product for a UK bike manufacturer.
I know of 1 fatbike on the market (mostly due to ignorance of such things) - isn't that more than enough already??
@paul78, how about STW members-only frameset? The additional condition being you are NOT allowed to sell without a written agreement from Brant 😉
i dread to think what the "funny handshake" would entail if you met another rider on a STW only bike out on the trails
Hairychested, Lol ... Its an interesting concept 🙂
Fatbike full-suss 36er, running a Rohloff with 3x11 deraileur & hammerschmidt is where its at.
Fatbike full-suss 36er, running a Rohloff with 3x11 deraileur & hammerschmidt is where its at.
Ti/bamboo frame, obviously.
HT for nicheNess surely?
I know of 1 fatbike on the market (mostly due to ignorance of such things) - isn't that more than enough already??
Do you drive a Model T ford?
@nickf, you're so last month, toilet paper is the newest dream material, doncha know?
Ah, but this is [i]special[/i] Ti, paw-welded by dope-smoking pandas high in the mountains (and high on mystical herbs, obviously).
Do you drive a Model T ford?
nope, but i sure as s**t don't drive a Hummer 😉
If things carry on as they are pretty soon it'll be common or garden 5" full sus bikes that'll be considered as niche
Not in Eire 😀
paul78 - Member
What would you have Brant offer in a frame that you can't already buy from the number of other fat bike frame manufacturers ??
His bikes handle well and are better priced than USA manufacturers.
paul78 - Member
Yeah I can't really see this being a viable product for a UK bike manufacturer.
Ever ridden one? Bet you don't live in Scotland, do you?
There's more of this on the way 🙂
[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5211412263_7f20c28d21_z.jp g" target="_blank">
epicyclo, I'm not doubting Brant's ability to turn out a bike but how cheap can he make a low volume product ??
Alu Zero frame is $500 which is great value for money.. and as I said earlier the frames aren't the end of the cost with plenty of specialist parts needed..
Yeah i've ridden a few fat bikes although when I raced the Arrowhead 135 sponsorship dictated a non fat bike.. which rode pretty good too with a few carefully chosen components.
Brant, add up cost of R&D time plus manufacturer set up cost then actual cost of frame manufacturer divide it by the number of ST users that want one and everyone is happy 🙂
I think he'd be able to sell them in other countries too.
At present all the volume "manufacturers" are based in USA. A local "manufacturer" could bring in frames from Taiwan just as easily as them.
Edit: after riding the Arrowhead on a normal bike you're probably too fit to notice how much easier they make life for less fit folk like me. 🙂
I think its an overly simplistic view of a very small market.. I love fat bikes.. I can see the endless possibilities for bikepacking with them but the market is dictated by the buyers.
Biggest producers of fat bike products are mostly based out of Alaska where these guys get perfect conditions every year for riding and racing fat bikes... European market is barely embracing 29ers so I have no idea what they will make of Fat bikes.. I know Conrad at Sandman is having to take a long while perfecting not only his product but his marketing..
I think the market has to be further developed with the existing products that are available to start bringing costs down and to encourage other manufacturers to get involved... the Puglsey has been available for a long time and snow races have been going on in the states pre dating the specialist fat bikes.. this isn't a niche market as such as these bikes do have a good scope of possibility.. its just a small market place... an example of this is that there are still only 2 real fat tyres available after all this time and before last year there was only 1 !!
Nail on head there paul78
The are plenty positives which could appeal to a wider market eg. less environmental damage, big tyre comfort, greater scope of terrain to travel on etc. and once it takes off, then all the other aspects which are expensive at the moment would come down to a more affordable price. You are only talking wheels, tyres and b/b's which are really any different. Combine that with being able to run it as a 'normal' 29'er and you have 2 markets to tap into + how many would buy one just to look cool down the beach?
I think it has a lot more possibilities than singlespeed had originally and look what happened there!
The lack of tyre choice is a problem, but it will get better.
Persevere .. buy the products that are out there.. create events .. blog epic trips.. create a bigger market place 🙂
bunnerscj-I asked Brant about a 'normal' Ragley 29er...."buy an on-one".I love that man 😆
@paul78, Sandman suffers from being ugly in my opinion, Brant's bikes tend to be easier on the eye.
I don't say Pug is costly, it's the opposite, its VFM is great, having bought a Brant-designed frame without a test ride, just based on his advice, I would buy another one. My problem is I'm not in UK, I'm in Eire, so nothing is really available here to try. I might end up with a Pug and I'll love it, but if there was a Brant Fatbike than why not? Ok, Salsa is prettier but you could swap wheels on the Surly and it appeals to me.
So, Brant, will you and when? Please!
thanks all.
I'm uncertain what I can bring to the party, and though I do have snow-experience (raced and placed in 1996 and 1997 Iditabike races) I'm not fully up on things.
That said, I'd love to sort Shaggy out with something, and I do see some potential for the "bumbling about" style of bike.
Landing on "that" jump was pretty good, no rebound. I love that shot. Can't remember another pic of me in the air.
See? When you have 10 mins to spare (a genius like you won't need more), do it. 135mm both ends so the wheels can be swapped would be perfect. The wider rear hubs are rare and cost a bit, so they put me off, personally.
Brant, you can even make one roughly for a rider fitting the 456SS of yesteryear and bring it to SSWC in Eire, there'll be a few of us to tell you if it's any good 🙂
Seriously though, have a think, please.
it quite a tall order asking / pestering someone for a new frame. you do realise its about 10 grand just for production costs on a minimum run of steal frames.
If it were a Ragley it'd sell in huge numbers as long as it's steel.
Hairychested, define huge numbers?? 🙂
I want one too!
I will join the list! I wonder what sort of numbers we are talking about?
According to Google, 16" is huge.
I believe it'd outsell Surly by 5:1.
Theres a lot more sand than snow here in the UK which is ridable all year round which probably covers the riding wishes of 95% of folk that want a fatbike here in the UK, i know 5 riders around here will be rolling on pugs for beachriding by summer...
They arnt trailbikes despite what some folk think due to there weight of bigger rims and tyres, you dont want to shoulder one up a mountain!.
But they will go places you struggle to go on a regular bike including over soft moorland peat and with mininum damage ...
If you have ridin one then you know the differance 🙂
Big question for another new frame on the market which would appeal to UK riders then is maybe should it be offset or inline wheels?...
135 hubs keeps the cost down and also doing a swap over from a complete xc bike makes it a cheaper viable option for folk...
Offset allows Hub gears, these are great for beachriding giving a grind free quieter chainline,
An offset fork allows a bailout wheel swap if the gearhub fails- though so far they dont seem to be doing...
If you made an offset frame with bolt on drop outs you could choose singlespeed/internal hub gear or mech gears.
Riding comfort is covered by the tyres so an alloy frame with these dropouts would be a good alternative to a Pugsley...
then if enough interest a run of Ti frames?
i know more folk that want a fatbike than a 29er... says something?
I'm 6'5"...i'd have a 29er fatbike...
A few people posting on this thread are in desperate need of a reality check.
Outside the cosy world of STW, next to no-one is interested in fatbikes (or 29ers for that matter). The demand is tiny.
An On One or a Ragley works because you can bolt on all your standard components, whether you already have them or you trawl the classifieds and shops for them. A fatbike doesn't really have that option. Cranks, forks, wheels and tyres are all available in tiny quantities and you're not going to see any benefits which accrue from larger scale production.
Finally, if [s]Chain Reaction[/s] Ragley were to introduce a fatbike, using their massive buying power and also being a distributor, do you think they would pass those savings on to you, the consumer, or would they charge slightly less than a Pugsley and pocket the change?
What if it was looked at not as a cash cow for how many units could be sold ( unlikely ) and more of a challenge of how to do a fat bike only better surely designers like a challenge too 😈
a challenge is good but a challenge that gets you paid is better than a challenge that never gets past drawings.
Brant came up with the Inbred when only alu old. Then he gave us the 456SS, then the Pig. Were they the run-of-the-mill bikes? No, but still sold well and made him a few quid (I sincerely hope). A fatbike would enhance his status as one of leading bike designers.
BTW Coastkid and epicycle know so much about those bikes it could become some sort of STW forum project.
Druidh, you're right re: other people. How many great ideas didn't fit at first?
I live in Bristol, no mountains, not alot of snow, the beaches are a good car drive away. However the woods are close........Pug, that'll do pig.
What?Hairychested - Member
Brant came up with the Inbred when only alu (s)old.
Your adoration of Brant is touching, but if I were him I'd be starting to get a bit worried.
Is your real name Stan?
forum project? that'll go well then.
if this forum knows so much why not do it ALL yourselves?
it'd be a challenge
Theres a 10 km stretch of sandy beach and a couple of square miles of forest planted on the sand dunes a couple of 100yds from my house. I'd get plenty of use from a fat tyred bike.
considering they dropped the mmbop, a fairly mainstream frame because of poor sales I can't see a few "I would" comments on a niche frame swaying anything.
i have a prototype ti 29er coming into the country in the next couple of weeks,,
could be used as a 26 fatbike? as it has 90mm width where the tyre is .. is this enough?
417 chainstays 71 head angle and 72 seat angle
swapout dropouts for single speed hub gears
Outside the cosy world of STW, next to no-one is interested in fatbikes (or 29ers for that matter). The demand is tiny.
Yes, 29ers are restricted to such tiny niche manufacturers as Trek, Specialized and Giant... 🙄
[i]niche manufacturers as Trek, Specialized and Giant[/i]
never heard of them.
Apart from geometry there is no real other comparison you can draw between a fatbike and a 29er .. especially projected volume of sales 🙁
Outside the cosy world of STW, next to no-one is interested In fatbikes or 29ers for that matter
I think you need a reality check there colin, just because they don't sell in the shop you work in doesn't mean other people don't want to try them
there are a lot of bikes I'd like to try but not many I'd buy
@thepodge, hora, taka and ton alone will create enough market for new frames.
I live minutes from the beach, my office will be some 100 paces from another one. I tried riding my bike there, it sinks. You gonna tell me I'm the only one surrounded by sand?
So what this boils down to as there are many options available for fat bike frames is that you want Brant to design a bike...
as Brant doesn't build the bikes himself would a design suffice so just pay the man to design you a frame and go to a builder and have it made.
I live on the coast and I can see the attraction of a fat bike for riding on the beach and through the dunes. However, I can't quite justify the expense of buying one so I would be wary of buying a frame that would need some fairly pricey components to build it up. The Surly Pugsley as a complete build looks like quite a bargain when you consider some of the specialist components it has and if I had the money to spare that is where my cash would be going.
In the meantime I've fitted the biggest set of balloon tyres I could find to my Karate Monkey. It will doubtless be useless in the sand but its worth a go and I quite like the surreal ride quality.
like mine big dave ? 😉
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still fancy doing this tho
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@Big Dave, but if you were toying up with the new-bike idea and had a beach nearby, and the hubs on the shelf (bars, stems, brakes etc. too), would you consider one? As it can be used as a 29er of sorts, I can see a point there.
@paul78, if I knew 10% of what he does re: bike design I probably would try.
Hairychested , so just pay Brant to design you one then take design to a builder ... if there is alot of interest then get a few made and bring price down.. you could probably get a chinese builder to knock a bike out in ti from a Brant design at a decent rate especially if you go in as a group buy.
You gonna tell me I'm the only one surrounded by sand?
There must be a huge market for fat bikes in the Sahara, particularly with the current political unrest opening up the bike market there to European manufacturers. And then there's Bognor Regis...
Hence my comments re marketing and the success of singlespeed at the beginning of the thread.Outside the cosy world of STW, next to no-one is interested in fatbikes (or 29ers for that matter). The demand is tiny.
But one would follow the other.Cranks, forks, wheels and tyres are all available in tiny quantities and you're not going to see any benefits which accrue from larger scale production.
TBH I'm not actually convinced that there is (or ever will be) anything other than a relatively small niche market unless the wheels and tyres can be produced much lighter and cheaper. If someone can achieve that, then it would open up a whole new area.
It's nothing new and if you read the bumph [url= http://www.balloonbikes.com/en/das_prinzip/ ]HERE[/url] then a fat bike makes just as much sense for general riding.
Firestarter, not quite. Mines a bit of a freak bike with drop bars and a mix of what ever components I could buy cheaply. I was going for a monstercross meets bargain basement sort of look and I'm ashamed to say I was quite successful! I've not even taken any photos yet because it really is a bit of a sight. Its lurking in the garage awaiting some final tweaks. The couple of rides I've had on it have made me smile though and I suspect it will get ridden quite a bit over the summer. It has certainly made me realise that even bigger tyres could be good fun.
Hairychested, I guess if some of the components (especially wheels and tyres) were more freely available and not quite so pricey then perhaps I would consider just getting a frame and building one up over time. I think to be honest though I'll have to put a fat bike down on my list of long term aims. I don't have the cash or space for one at the moment.
I know how many [s]Surly[/s] Salsa Mukluk's the factory had made, when we were there in November. It was way more than I thought.
ah big dave sounds like my cross check monster lol