I tried a set of Sram Codes today ( ok tried being I squeezed them in a shop) and the lever stopped dead at full power ( ie the pads locked on to the disc) This is something I really liked, and my Shimano don’t do this they are spongy even when the pads are locked on. Was I just lucky with the two sets I tried or are they all like this?
Ive avoided Sram brakes for years as the previous sets have been disasters, is that still the case?
I was planning on some Hopes or Saints for a future ( end of the year prob) build would I be better off sticking with those??
Hydro disks should have a very firm lever. If they're spongy, it means there is air in the system or something is flexing. Hoses will expand slightly under pressure, the longer the hose, the more flex, so rear brakes are generally slightly less firm than front. Levers will also flex a bit and this will vary if they have adjustable leverage: high power = more flex. Generally though, if the brake feels spongy, it needs bleeding.
You can also get a long lever throw as a result of caliper pistons sticking in their bores/seals, and self-retracting too far as a result (won't matter which brake you have, no calipers i'm aware of have dirt seals, so if you use it in dirt, they'll eventually get gunged up and sticky), so try to keep them clean, and "exercise" them (allow them to move past their normal travel, then push them back) on a regular basis. Spongey brake feel can also be down to poor caliper alignment (badly made calipers/ badly machined mounts/squeeze lever, tighten bolts method) as the pads will have to twist the disc before they clamp it. Even on brand new brakes, following the advice above can give a marked reduction in lever travel, better power and feel, and reduced noise.
It's not really a fair test to be honest, a lever will feel totally different when the bike is in the move.
The lower the effective leverage ratio, the more 'solid' a lever will feel, which will likely actually lead to a less powerful brake.
Yes, as coatesy says, sticking pistons and misaligned calipers can also be a problem. This can cause the pads to wear unevenly (i.e. tapered).
IME, hydro discs are extremely reliable, but once the calipers start playing up, you will only fix them by stripping the calipers and removing the pistons and seals, cleaning everything in hot soapy water (then thoroughly drying them), reassembling and checking the caliper alignment, and fitting new pads.
Sticking seals may increase lever throw, but they shouldn't affect spongyness once the brakes are engaged.
Spongyness may be down to air in the system, or as thecaptain says, it just a function of leverage: more powerful brakes will feel more spongy.
but yes, to answer you rquestion, SRAM brakes are apparently now good.
the problems which plagued the old Elixirs etc are a thi of the past, since the newer Guide etc brakes came in.
i don't have any tho. that's what i understand
thanks all the brakes aren’t spongy in use and work great ( it’s a set of XT’s I’m using) and do soninuse as well, it’s that the lever doesn’t stop dead and it’s not something I notice in use either....argh I’m not explaining this very well!! LoL
im still dubious about spending money on SRAM brakes though...
My Guide RSCs were bloody brilliant, and they were the pre leading edge ones.
Loads of feel, gobs of power, big adjustment range, and reliable.
As others said its a leverage thing, IME my XT's barely move past the bite point which I've got set a gnats chuff from the bars). In the shed it feels horrible and looks rubbish (you can pull the brake right to the bar with no effort) but in use that never happens (well it does if I try and force it by only using the back brake on a grippy surface and leaning right back but that's not what happens on a real trail).
SRAM I always found the opposite, however well bled they are they always have more lever throw once the pads bite in real life.
If you want brakes that feel solid like a motorbikes, try hope.
Don't Shimano levers have servo-wave type roller system in? That would cause what the OP is describing? Although it gives other advantages.
Also braided hoses help a bit.
I have a set of old Hayes Stroker hydros, they work fine for xc stuff, but are weak compared to my Zees. They also have the on/off feel that the OP desires. Unfortunately 'on' is about as stoppy as my pants. Shimano Zee for example have dual sized pistons to give a deliberately progressive feel, combined with the servo-wave this is luscious and supremely powerful, I can't see why you'd want on/off instead.
Yeah I dont want on off, I like the brakes to be progressive, so I can modulate the power! It's the stop not bounce at maxed out I like!
I think Hopes are probably where I got the idea from, I had some on a orange about ten years ago
I have found sintered pads feel much firmer than the original shimano resin pads. Trouble is, your not supposed to use them on most shimano discs.
Trouble is, your not supposed to use them on most shimano discs.
This? This is bollocks.
Isn't that just the icetech discs, they definitely say organic only
A lot of the cheaper shimano discs have "resin pads only" printed on them.
I believe they are softer metal & wear excessively quickly when harder pads are used. I haven't tested though as I put bigger discs on anyway.
This? This is bollocks.
Its to do with whether they've been ground and heat treated IIRC.
Look at shimano rotors the edges are noticeably more rounded than hope, Hayes etc which have sharp edges.
Whether they wear out fast enough to really be an issue is another point, be shimano do like to be pedantic when saying whether parts are compatible.
I suspect much of the concern about pads is related to noise. Replacing organic pads with sintered often leads to unearthly howling from the brakes. Personally, I think that's a feature, not a bug, there's no better way of getting slow moving pedestrians out of your way than to tap your brakes and let loose a banshee like wail, but a lot of riders expect their brakes to work silently. I've mixed and matched brakes, pads, and rotors in a pretty random way over the years and the only problem has been noise.
For serious descending, metallic pads might transfer more heat to the caliper, but the descents I ride aren't long enough for that to be a problem.
The 'squidge' in the lever thrown is caused by mechanical inefficiency. Either air in the system or flex in the hoses, caliper, lever, pads etc. To an extent this can be overcome by a) a perfect bleed and b) a stiffer setup - either with better quality parts or just more material (ie more weight).
Codes can be made stiffer because they're a bit heavier.
I've got Guide RS brakes and they have proved to be excellent in use and very reliable and consistent.
