Forum menu
@Sir HC. I saw one chap lift his sons balance bike down the qualifier on Vicious Valley once. An easy enough trail on a full sized bike I’d imagine it’s terrifying in a balance bike
Went for the first time last Monday with a few mates - one broken wrist later..
Our problem was that we’d taken Melted Welly down to the road only to find that both of the blues that we could have taken to the bottom were shut and we were left with a black or two reds to chose from. Having never ridden it before, the reds (even the easier ones) are quite a step up from blue and a bit too much for an experienced rider on a 100mm hard-tail.
I've not been to BPW but I had a hell of a shock when I visited another trail centre after starting out on Bedgebury and Swinley reds.
Consistent grading would be nice, or at least a clear guide on what to expect - looks like BPW at least has the latter.
Our problem was that we’d taken Melted Welly down to the road only to find that both of the blues that we could have taken to the bottom were shut and we were left with a black or two reds to chose from. Having never ridden it before, the reds (even the easier ones) are quite a step up from blue and a bit too much for an experienced rider on a 100mm hard-tail.
That seems a little unreasonable !
some of BPW is built a bit funny and doesnt link very well which would cause problems.
ACDC has hips which are fine except on the first or second run where you arnt sure wether to go off the lip on an angle or go straight. if you go slow you case like hell so you have to send it but i`ve had some 'oh shit i need to be 10ft left' moments or 'oh shit im landing 1/2 way around a berm'
or the large vert lip int eh mddle of the a470 which, in order to hit the landing you need to get into orbit and proper nose it in BMX style, which is fine but i can never remember which jump it is as i dont go very often. and im not sure id be that keen to go that nuts in the wet/wind.
i find most of the flow trails just a bit odd really.
the more natural type ones are much much better then the jumpy ones.
To be fair on Sunday they had a sign at the top of Bonneville/Surfin Bird (and also at the top of Blue Belle which is shut) telling people how to get to Willy Waver so that they could do a blue. No idea if it was there before but perhaps they put it up in response to concerns.
The grading at BPW is pretty self explanatory, and TBH compared to all the other trail centres it makes the most sense. Nearly all the nasty slams I've seen have been due to over confidence and tiredness. Full face + pads = indestructible... Until you get tired & catch a pedal on a tree stump going mach 5 on Willy Waver.
Part of me is surprised they haven't looked at putting a small cafe / rest stop at the top of the uplift (yes, I appreciate the cost and lack of infrastructure...) so rather than forcing all riders down to the reception / shop for a break, you could spend it on-the-hill so to speak. It might cut back on the knackered riders falling on their last run before lunch / end of the day.
not a bad idea at all Jack. Even if just a snack hut etc.
Nice thought but I suspect water and power would be an issue. Maybe a mobile van though, so it's self sufficient for that.
Well there's enough busses etc going to to carry a bit of fuel for a Gennie or a gas system for hot water etc... So i rekon it could be viable....
People would whinge about things being more expensive at the top of the hill than the bottom.
for most of teh time i've been there the top of the hilll is the last place i'd want to hang out!
that said they probably make a killing in cans of coke/bottled water in a kiosk at teh uplift queue
To be fair on Sunday they had a sign at the top of Bonneville/Surfin Bird (and also at the top of Blue Belle which is shut) telling people how to get to Willy Waver so that they could do a blue. No idea if it was there before but perhaps they put it up in response to concerns.
That's the one... we were there the Monday before and there wasn't any sign I could see... ended up going down Surfin' Bird which is where he came off.
If I'd realised quite how big the jump from flow blue to tech red was we'd have probably spent longer with the map and worked out a more sensible route down.
@meesterbond. Where did your mate crash on Surfin Bird? I can imagine the surface being fairly unforgiving for most of it.
I couldn't believe the amount of people pushing their bikes over the qualifiers. I'm not sure what must be going through your head to think it's a good idea! Even on rollable drops like wibbly wobbly. If you can't even roll off a small drop then don't ride a red. The worst I saw was a group of 4 riders entering coal not dole. 3 carried their bikes down the 2 rock drops and the last one just rolled off as though it was a curb. I thought it was game over for him but somehow he managed to save himself from going otb. Complete stupidity but maybe it's because groups tend to head to bpw as a bit of an event and egg each other on, or get carried away seeing much better riders head off down harder trails or hitting big features.
Complete stupidity but maybe it’s because groups tend to head to bpw as a bit of an event and egg each other on, or get carried away seeing much better riders head off down harder trails or hitting big features.
lots of this....I was at BPW few weeks ago and rode back round to ride the A470 jumps, jesus christ it was terrifying to watch some people go through just the top section!
Please take a video of it next time, sounds great 🙂
@meesterbond. Where did your mate crash on Surfin Bird? I can imagine the surface being fairly unforgiving for most of it.
Not sure exactly, I was a little way ahead.
From memory there were a couple of short, sharp rocky slopes - I think his front wheel got a bit a caught up in the rocks and he went over the bars, used his left hand to break his fall. I don't think it was a particularly big fall, he didn't even realise it was broken until it started to swell up and he was advised to get it checked out.
More annoying for him was it was the first run of the day!
A470 jumps, jesus christ it was terrifying to watch some people go through just the top section
i`ve sat in the same spot and crapped myself watching riders neary die. the jumps just arnt easy mtb flyoffs which definately have teh capacity to scupper those with bikes that flatter their abilities rather than abilities that flatter them.
this is a prblem where you cant session a section or you`ve forgotten whats coming and someone puts a random steep lip in an otherwise fairly flowy trail.
I`m no ridign god so someone watching me is probably crapping themselves!
Complete stupidity but maybe it’s because groups tend to head to bpw as a bit of an event and egg each other on, or get carried away seeing much better riders head off down harder trails or hitting big features.
The other reason is that folk have paid quite a lot to be uplifted for a day, and feel they need to eke out every possible run in the timespan to get value, hence pushing hard without a proper rest when they should probably stop at 2pm and have a lie down. And also feel that they need to be getting faster as the day goes on and they get used to the place.
Normally, your climbing legs tend to be your limiting factor when deciding when to call it a day.
The other reason is that folk have paid quite a lot to be uplifted for a day, and feel they need to eke out every possible run in the timespan to get value, hence pushing hard without a proper rest when they should probably stop at 2pm and have a lie down. And also feel that they need to be getting faster as the day goes on and they get used to the place.
Agreed. Having been a few times now, I tend to start with a couple of easier runs to warm up, then ramp up towards the harder stuff by mid to late morning while I'm still physically fresh. After a little lunch break I'll hit progressively easier and flowy runs as my arms tire, finishing with Melted Wellie, Blue Belle and Bushwacker back to the visitors centre and a chill out before hitting the road home.
3 carried their bikes down the 2 rock drops and the last one just rolled off as though it was a curb.
.
caught him up a few drops down the trail, he then proceeded to haul on the anchors right at the lip of one of the drops, muppet!
In 2017 both of these could have been me. I used to roll the first and drop the second with use of bash guard on coal not dole; and my first go down insufficient i chickened out of a couple, looked at them, realized they were much smaller than they looked, and pushed back up a bit to do it. made sure there was nobody behind me before I started though.
2018 I can do them both.
Must be nice to be born with riding skill, but then I've had the pleasure of seeing myself improve.
I couldn’t believe the amount of people pushing their bikes over the qualifiers. I’m not sure what must be going through your head to think it’s a good idea!
Well presumably they rode other places with Reds and Blues.... and have an expectation of what that means?
has hips which are fine except on the first or second run where you arnt sure wether to go off the lip on an angle or go straight. if you go slow you case like hell so you have to send it but i`ve had some ‘oh shit i need to be 10ft left’ moments or ‘oh shit im landing 1/2 way around a berm’
which is why I like the double grading system for something with jumps...
Lots of people ride manicured 'jumps' who wouldn't make it 10' on a 'technical run' and visa versa... You can ride DJ without brakes or aggressive tyres but the two are not necessarily the same thing.
I quite like the blue/red/black on a gnarlyness scale and the dots for jumping requirements.
Even if the whole trail is within my skill level its once to know if I'm going to have to do a hip or nose dive in before I'm actually in the air doing it... vs just hitting something gnarly...
e.g. I was on a black / 1 dot yesterday ..(Rogate). meaning it was pretty techy but the man made jumps were actually simple table tops... whereas you could have a blue 3 dot meaning it's smooth as a babies bum except for some big hip gap jumps
I do have to agree with some of the "out of depth" comments. Acdc is one run in my book where the slightest hesitation could end in a big heap for riders who "ride red" elsewhere, we'd not ridden it before saturday and my lad trusts me to guide him from the front but he knows that speed is your friend on trails like that.
I do think there could be a better intro for newer riders, perhaps offer a ten minute briefing pre signing up, because as it is with the queue so big on a Saturday they just shunt you through without a care other than "have you signed the disclaimer"
As for a cafe at the top what is it with hanging around up there? We get off the bus and just want to hit a run down, some folk look like they've been up there 20 mins just gassing away, so a mobile cafe in my book would do a roaring trade!
Nah. Folks who hang around at the top wouldn’t use a cafe unless it was sited in the way of at least half the trail heads I reckon.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">"calv145
<div class="bbp-author-role">
<div class="">Member</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
I couldn’t believe the amount of people pushing their bikes over the qualifiers. I’m not sure what must be going through your head to think it’s a good idea!"
</div>
Simple, BPW is bad at qualifiers, most of them don't relate to the trail. So once you discover that frinstance Vicious Valley's qualifier is the only feature on the whole trail that's anything like vicious valley's qualifier, of course you ignore it. And once you've done that for one qualifier it undermines them all. It's the inevitable result of shit trailbuilding decisions. Especially on VV where you'd be turning people away from such a big part of the park.
For a qualifier to work it's got to be relevant, there's no point putting a double jump at the top of a trail with no real jumps like Dai Hard, or a woodwork drop at the top of VV. (I think Coal Not Doal's a bit different- there's really nothing else on the trail at all like the entrance but the entrance is a big enough part of the trail in its own right)
I love BPW but this, they got wrong.
Biking is the new golf, and dare I say it e-bikes adding to this ability for people to get them self’s more easily in to difficult situations, although this specific point is not relevant to BPW being an uplift venue..
Yup, and....
I’ve never been to BPW although can see that even at regular trail centres there are people riding at speeds and on routes way past their ability, with no actual skill other than the peddaling.
As above, learning and simply having fun can only be applauded but, the number of people with lovely very capable bikes and no idea how to ride them properly
Had the same thought the other day whilst sitting for lunch in Finale.
The number of over weight people on eBikes, fully tooled up space troopers on their blinged bikes or couples in partner-look (matching outfits - gb down to the shoes and colour coordinated Evoc packs, oh and his and hers bikes).... Knowing that their bikes are never going to get used anywhere near their full potential.
Went to watch the practice on DH Men in Friday. After practice there were a few people riding down and then a group of six German guys. We were stood near a small rocky drop and started chanting "jump jump jump jump!" and this guy who had stopped nearly had a melt down. ... "hey Leute! Lass es sein! Hör auf!" ..... And this was up top, not the tricky section after the pylon. Needless to say he and his friends proceeded to push /carry their bikes down.
Saw the same again today.
I've been once a year since it opened and I think the grading system is good.
But, we rode AC/DC and Watts Occurring this time and while we rode every bit of them we didn't do them justice. We weren't hitting them fast enough to hit the landings.
Rather than being downhearted I've realised that it just means I need to improve my jumping technique (not a natural thing when approaching 48). If you have grown up riding FC trail centres then this new school stuff is a step up (literally) and that's surely a good thing.
Agree about the fatigue, I usually do 10 then call it quits. I always missed the last session track days too.
Some of the qualifiers have changed – Dai Hard gap jump is gone now for instance.
I used to be able to do Dai Hard before the qualifier was added. Not brilliantly, but a trail I could learn technique on.
Not been since Bonneville qualifier was upgraded but unless that trail has had big drops added I don't remember anything needing those skills. Just the steep switchback that was shitty when wet.
Problem with the qualifiers is it assumes lack of one ability equals lack of all others. Some people just don't do big drops or gap jumps, but are perfectly competent at steep rocky technical trails. Another thing is I find I have issues with slow run ups to blind drops, but okay with ones that come up mid trail with clear sight of landings on a fast trail. With speed and flow features become less daunting.
Some people just don’t do big drops or gap jumps, but are perfectly competent at steep rocky technical trails.
You’ve described me. 😁 It would be difficult to ride anywhere in South Wales if you weren’t comfortable on steep tech stuff, but I can’t jump and am not happy on big drops.
The number of over weight people on eBikes, fully tooled up space troopers on their blinged bikes or couples in partner-look (matching outfits – gb down to the shoes and colour coordinated Evoc packs, oh and his and hers bikes)…. Knowing that their bikes are never going to get used anywhere near their full potential.
Went to watch the practice on DH Men in Friday. After practice there were a few people riding down and then a group of six German guys. We were stood near a small rocky drop and started chanting “jump jump jump jump!” and this guy who had stopped nearly had a melt down. … “hey Leute! Lass es sein! Hör auf!” ….. And this was up top, not the tricky section after the pylon. Needless to say he and his friends proceeded to push /carry their bikes down
You sound amazing!
Well presumably they rode other places with Reds and Blues…. and have an expectation of what that means?
I imagine a fair few have actually only every ridden Swinley (being one of the closest trail centres to high population dense areas), therefore their expectations will be somewhat skewed. A red at Swinley doesn't compare to anything at BPW, let alone A417 or FOD. Possibly only the pushup trail..
I was at A417 at the weekend, and the number of people with absolutly zero clue ready to launch into the Red and Black was scary. I followed a couple guys that crashed infront of me on what appeared to be notthing wearing just a helmet. I also saw 4 people pushing up the trails at various points. I've had the same experience at the other trail centres.
I know people need to start somewhere and it must be really difficult for the uplift centres to vet the riders, but there must be some way of educating riders.
I'm deperate to go, but the drive puts me off. And tbh TINAS doesn't like me driving 8 hours to do something eco friendly, so it's a no from Me...
Went to Revolution earlier this year, and the prep chat at the top was basic, but deadly serious. "Start small, and take everything really easy as the nearest hospital is over an hour away, and it will take an ambulance nearly an hour to get here"
It worked too...!
If you think the grading is off at BPW, wait till you get out to the Alps. The blues are as technical as BPW reds.
If you think the grading is off at BPW, wait till you get out to the Alps. The blues are as technical as BPW reds.
Depends though doesn't it...
Take the Les Gets BP red down into town... i don't know it's name sorry, but the main one into the Chavannes lift.... That's not as hard as a BPW red... but it's a Les Gets/Alps red.... There's a couple of gaps on the one side, with tabletops on the other side when approaching... but if you're OK with working them out, it's fine. My 10 year old got down it OK recently. The blue at the bottom half of that was Swinleyesque/BPW blue in a similar context and again, no issue for him on his HT either.
I've been down some reds there though that are WAY outside where i'd have let him ride.
I've got an ace idea. If you haven't ridden it before (and even if you have) then expect the unexpected.
But don't go slowly or stop to look at features before riding them or the STW pros will moan about you.
This is making me want to visit.
I think the comments on people walking bits of the qualifiers is a little unfair. Isn't that the point of them? They've been riding the blues fine and decide to see if they 'qualify' for the reds. If you then saw them walking the reds/blacks then maybe fair enough to comment. Odds are they thought "that's past my ability, I'll go back to the blues".
"For a qualifier to work it’s got to be relevant, there’s no point putting a double jump at the top of a trail with no real jumps like Dai Hard, or a woodwork drop at the top of VV. (I think Coal Not Doal’s a bit different- there’s really nothing else on the trail at all like the entrance but the entrance is a big enough part of the trail in its own right)"
The Dai Hard gap jump qualifier had been turned into a drop last time I was there, which made a lot more sense - I wasn't comfortable trying that gap but I'd say Dai Hard is probably my favourite trail at BPW! The first drops on both Coal Not Dole and Pork Belly and also on Bonneyville were there before any qualifiers were added, so I see them as just part of the trail. The one on Bonneyville was surprisingly larger than it used to be!
Im due to go to BPW next weekend for the first ti.e. i understand that the qualifiers may sometimes not match the trail, but is it fair to say that if you can do the qualifier you can do the trail?
@BlackFlag - I would say you stand a damn good chance. I’ve always found them quite reliable. Even the Vicious Valley one everyone always brings up is just a drop and maybe a little larger than some of the others on the trail. Do a blue first and pay attention to the trail grains progressing thingy that puts them roughly in the order of difficulty and you won’t go far wrong.
I have always happily some the qualifier for Dai hard .
I'm buggered if can get down that drop out of the woods cleanly though! My bloody nemesis.
I'm not actually a huge fan of BPW as a facility* but they do have a pretty comprehensive trail grading system.
Each and every riders safety is their own responsibility.
Take some time, study the guide and start steady, take breaks and please, please keep the trails clear... then everyone gets to enjoy their day.
* Trails are ok, driver/uplift ok... centre building, facilities and visitor experience off the trails all could do with a little improvement. This may or may not be something that is being worked on... I'll still go a couple of times a year as it's a good day out.